Ever lasting life in heaven under Yahweh Jesus and the holly ghost. Or is existenceless a more desirable end to life?
I again refer to Lazarus Long
Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream up a God superior to themselves. Most Gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child.
Is that why evangelicals are all excited about Cheeto?
The answer is no I wouldn't like that since I don't like being in under my parents supervision I'm only 30 or so years old and I hate being under my parent supervision 24 seven for them to tell me what to wear what to do what to eat what to say and how to treat my own self I just want to be free and live my life free from dictators i just want to be free and treat other people like people not like animal because we all humans and we all deserve to live a simple life nobody deserves to live a life of lies and hypnotism from other people that knows no better
Sorry, but this is just a nonsense question since I am unable to conceive of a universe that even required a god to exist.
It's an imaginary scenario not intended to be an attempt to convince you that it could be a possible one. If given a choice in an imaginary universe where Christianity was real would you rather not exist or exist and live in a Christian Heaven for eternity. I chose non-existence. I think most Atheists have, but I wondered if the desire for eternal life was enough of a draw that some might want that enough to accept all the bad that came with it.
I guess I have no imagination when it comes to things I find totally ridiculous, eternal life really? How would that work as all life is finite by the nature of life, genetic evolution requires it. Almost 55 years as an atheist changes how you see religion from something that you no longer practice or believe in to something that is just total nonsense.
When I first lost my faith, my answer was a definite yes. Then, as I grew comfortable with my godlessness, my answer became an unequivocal no because I didn't want to serve an immortal tyrant.
Now, I'm not sure. I feel like there are a lot more variables than simply: eternal life or not. I think it's also a question of the conditions of that eternal life (Whose paradise is it exactly?). I wouldn't want to pray for an eternity. I'd rather cease to exist. But if heaven were to be some genuine reward, and not just a megachurch, I probably would prefer that to nonexistence.
I prefer to think that when I die, that's it. I certainly do not want to spend eternity sucking up to a depraved being as described in the 'holy books', and though I find myself in agreement with much of what was purportedly taught by a character named Jesus, it represents nothing new. Many before that time offered the same posits. I have no interest in having anything to do with that.
"a Christian God" - which one?
But seriously, no. The whole idea of eternal torture, regardless of the offense, sickens me. The capricious and vindictive nature of the more popular villain in the bible (I'm referring to "God" here) makes me want nothing to do with him, and to be as far from him as possible.
The bible-thumpers assert that their God is all-knowing and all-powerful, and exists outside of time. Yet, when he saw that people weren't behaving the way he'd intended, his solution wasn't to fix them, it was to drown all but 8 of the humans on Earth and send them all to Hell for a little bout of eternal torture.
He makes a bet with regards to his most devout follower at the time, and asks the Devil to torture this follower and kill off his entire family in hideous, painful ways. To test him. And this is the being they say is the embodiment of pure love?
He allows people to repent and avoid going to Hell for raping, torturing, and murdering hundreds of victims, yet blaspheming the holy spirit is the one and only "unforgivable sin". Truly, I say unto you: Fuck that guy.
Yeah, I would jump at the chance for an eternal life in a very, very pleasant place. As long as none of the beings portrayed in the bible are there.
Well said.
I need a Christian god like I need a hole on my head. Like Richard Dawkins said. Yahweh is one of the most distasteful beings that ever conceived.
NO
How salvation fails
First, the working definition of the Christian God is "All powerful (maximally powerful if your a theological student), all Knowing, ever present, timeless, eternal, Just, and OMNI-beneficent (pure Good))
This is VERY problematic
Original sin makes ALL of humanity punished by separation from God by the sin of Adam, which GOD would have foreseen and allowed, allowed the tree of knowledge to exist in the garden to begin with, allowed the serpent in the garden, allowed it to lie to people who did not yet know right from wrong and so did not know what a lie was and hence had no concept of being deceived and had no reason NOT to believe the serpent.
That makes original sin a Cosmic setup by such a God.
Second, it utterly belittles the Notion of God as all powerful by placing a requirement on God, that of a necessary Human Blood sacrifice (to end all sacrifices) because God cannot forgive the sin of Adam without such a sacrifice. This destroys the definition by making God less than all Powerful because it needs Blood to forgive, something you or I do not need, and thus makes God less than Man.
Third, it scapegoats an innocent for the "crime" of the guilty (which as noted above could not be a crime as they could not understand they were doing wrong until After they ate from the tree). Now you have an innocent person (Jesus) who is punished instead of You (the Guilty, for being born, because your ancestor screwed up)
And now your Just God model is just toast.
THIS "The laws of sacrifice and justice could not be circumvented by the Father"
Makes God less than all powerful, trapped by mere circumstance when it can speak universes into existence.
Further, it is unjust and immoral
Not understanding WHY Jeffery Dhammer, kidnapped, zombified into sex slaves, killed and ate 17 people does not make it ok that he did that does it?
To me something was quite broken in that human, right?
Yet Jeffery was a Born Again Christian before he died, forgiven and washed clean in the blood of the lamb. However the 17 victims never got that chance for redemption from the very same God, cause ole Jeff ate them.
Which would make them getting kidnapped, zombified into sex slaves, killed and eaten, all part of God's plan too, so he could save Jeff.
We can EASILY see that as WRONG, morally wrong, ethically wrong, but if you try and say "it's God's Mercy" they you are disavowing the lack of Mercy for the victims, who went through hell form ole Jeff and then get to go to hell itself.
Which would make that God evil.
This concept is a leftover from the Bronze age when people thought Blood was magical, and that Blood sacrifice could appease the angry God, not much different than the Aztecs.
The sacrament of this religion is Cannibalism and Vampirism in Ceremonial form (unless your Catholic and believe in transubstantiation, the literal transformation of the cracker and wine into flesh and blood inside you).
THIS is painted not only as good, but HOLY.
That is religion twisting morality so out of joint it is not Moral anymore, but painting immorality as moral, and claiming the Moral high ground as well.
Yes, a Christian believes that God as you say is real.
I am glad that he is, he is someone who is powerful ie created the heavens and the earth. I am also glad that he does not use his power to be at the use of us pressing a button and hey presto he has compiled with our wishes, painful that may be when we have asked for life changing stuff
If we believe that there is no God then we are left with the idea that human beings developed from a mushy swamp of microbes. If we are left with that concept then we risk believing that our forefathers were monkeys ie some difficulty in tracing which line of monkey I might have developed /inherited my personality from Ha ha!
That's super interesting, so if I understand you correctly you believe in a God, and you reject the scientific data that shows that we did, in fact, evolve from one species into another, species repeatably over 100s of millions of years. I respect your beliefs, and I definitely disagree, but I don't think you're wrong for believing what you believe. I do have a question for you if you don't mind? Is your belief in a God based on the fact that you don't want to accept the data that shows evolution to be true or is your belief in a God just a personal conclusion that it must be true? If it's a little of both or something entirely different would you please explain. I would be super interested in hearing your response. I want to assure you that I'm not judgmental and I have no feelings of being intellectually superior, or otherwise. I just find this subject to be fascinating.
And the problem with that is....?
If a person move beyond propaganda of past empires and utilize their motherboard (brain) independently of what they are spoonfed by society evolution can take place bringing us where we need to be...
Anything but the Christian god. He is an unreasonable jackass
I would find it completely unacceptable to spend eternity with a boundlessly psychotic monster who allowed "paradise" to exist while simultaneously ignoring the people he condemned to eternal torture. He can't have it both ways. If he expects worship as a deity of pure love and promises love without measure, then he can't be excused for having created hell and actually utilizing its function.
Gearl said it best with the Dan Barkers quote. I'll just say - HELL NO!
No, because I think he's an asshole.
God is an asshole, or the concept of God is that of an asshole?
No! That God is an asshole and if it exists we will all burn because it's pissed off at it's imperfect creation. It doesn't like some of the most beautiful things about us, and encourages war and female subjugation. In fact, if I'm wrong and this asshole is up in heaven judging me right this minute, I don't want to spend eternity in it's company.
Consider this: Can you imagine a heaven existing in which you wouldn't get bored? Did you just say to yourself 'well it's impossible for me to understand'?
Ponder that for a minute.
I used to think heaven was all great when I was super small, but then I got to thinking, how could I be entirely happy when I knew there were other people suffering? Plus he holy music all the time would drive me freaking stupid!
You wake up in heaven for the millionth time and ask your loved one next to you what is going on today? They reply... were going to listen to harp music again today, and let God and Jesus know how happy we are that we got in. I then quietly mumble... we do that everyday. I’m so bored in this place, but don’t tell anyone. If they find out, they may take away my heaven pass.
The Christian God is a vain and jealous woman and Jesus is a rich Jew! NOW the Bible makes sense!
I would assume existenceless means there is no realization of anything, nothingness, end of story, curtain closed, finality, the end. I wouldn't mind there being another level of existence beyond this one but hey who knows. still if everlasting life under the christian god is the end of ends, NAH.
Not any from any of the relgious books I have read. But maybe some from some people's interpretations or from a fictional story I have read.
Not sure the afterlife I would want is possible. I do not understand how heaven is possible... How can everyone be happy and still be them? Will people all the sudden have no differences? What if someone they love is in hell. Will they get visitation rights. Maybe the concept of heaven and hell ellude me because I think to much. But unless it is just a place that is like their god, imaginary and all in their heads, I don't see how this heaven and hell is done.
And what if we're in Hell already? It would explain a lot of the suffering Christians see. I think I might start pushing that idea to them. Bwahahaha.
No I wouldn't. And even if I wanted him to, I'd ask him a load of questions on why he let his followers cause all this destruction in the world and contribution to the dumbing down of our society with these anti-science people out promoting their intellectually harmful agendas.
Only if I believed in him and his tenets. Living for eternity in bliss sounds nice but the lack of evidence plus the whole allowing suffering as well as damning people for eternity I would take oblivion over wanting such gentle mercies on my fellow man.