Well, that was some rant, and I agree with you. I also do not care for labels. I call myself an atheist, because I do not believe in gods, but there is no proof one way or the other. Who knows; who cares. I like Isaac Asimov's take: "I prefer rationalism to atheism. The question of God and other objects-of-faith are outside reason and play no part in rationalism, thus you don't have to waste your time in either attacking or defending."
Be well.

I didn't read it. Too long. Ancient argument. I stuck my neck out too, only to take my lumps.
Atheist--knows there's no god.
Agnostic-- doesn't know if there's a god.

The ONLY thing I ffel I know FOR SURE is, there is no hell. No "god" could be that evil.

I've also traveled that agnostic/atheist trail, and have come this conclusion: I am a post Big Bang atheist, and a pre Big Bang agnostic. I know - we shouldn't think in terms of 'before the Big Bang since time started then, but that is my stand. We pretty well have it nailed that the universe started at the BB, but those first few microseconds after the start is still a mystery. 'Before' the BB is so out there I can't even speculate

even An atheist doesn’t know but more inclined to say no rather than maybe

I agree with you and without having done all that research I started calling myself an agnostic atheist. My reasoning was I don't believe in a god or gods like in religion. The agnostic part is because I like to recognize that I don't know what could be , especially when it comes to a power that is the universe , like the laws of physics and quantum mechanics there may be power but I don't believe in a personal God or a Creator God. I guess it's the word god . Its hard to leave off the connotations we grew up with like an old man sitting on a throne in judgment. So just because I believe in something like a higher power or a force in the universe I still think in terms of being an atheist because I don't believe in the gods of religion. Or a god thats separate from religion but is in control of our lives or things that happen.I'm starting to think more and more about other dimensions I do believe we know very little about what's really going on. Anyway thanks for your thoughtful and informative post.

This was well thought-out, and well written, thank you for sharing your thoughts and the result of your searching and cogitating! Agnostic and atheist are similar terms, but, yes, they define different perspectives. I call myself an atheist because I strongly believe that there is no god (or are no gods), and that works for me.

Nice post.
The only exception I take to the wording occurs in the following portion of a sentence:
"The difference is quite simple: atheist refers to someone who BELIEVES that there is no god (or gods)," (emphasis mine).
Because many "religionists" argue that atheism is simply another "belief system" when, in fact, it's the lack of belief. The concept of depending on demonstrable facts rather than blind faith in beliefs.
It's a minor point in semantics for us, but those dependent on "faith" use it to argue atheism is just another "faith", which is SO wrong, IMHO.
PS: I realize that the "definition you quoted actually says what I'm saying but I wanted to clarify that, at least for me, belief itself doesn't demand "facts" and so I avoid applying it to myself.

Einstein was constantly badgered and misunderstood because he used the word "god" when he never intended to claim any belief in any personal god whatsoever. His "god" was the universe and how it stood, without sentience of any kind.
Sorry I kind of rambled there. ?

I can identify. Maybe I am an agnostic atheist. I was once a believer in the Abrahamic god but have come to realize that there is no proof of any gods and various holy books are only the writings of those who believe. The books are written by men and not supreme beings. What is a god? Having a god who is greatly concerned about my sex life is disturbing. Make this god all powerful and yet have him unable to do things is more disturbing yet. It gets much worse when I discover how the holy books were assembled and how long it took to get them in our present forms today. Belief in gods of any sort is much worse than science fiction.

Silvereyes,. Great post. I can't get past the question about if you believe in God and if so how sure you are. An atheist is 100% sure and agnostics are usually 99.9% sure there is no God. What is missing as you point out is the definition of faith in a God. If someone asks if you believe in God they usually are asking if you believe in the Judeo-Christian version. To that I answer that if I am the one defining what God is then the answer is yes. A non personal , non judgemental life force that is truly ineffable fits easily into my personal belief system. Do you believe in metaphysics , would a better question and for me the answer would be no 100%. That one question aetheist/agnostic is as hard to answer as it is answering my front door when a Jehovah Witness is knocking on it.

I'm still working with freethought tho.

A person’s opinion about religion is of little importance. Dressing up your opinion with some grand label does not change the fact that we are all abysmally ignorant about the ultimate nature of reality, including ourselves and conscious awareness itself, which is the only thing that enables this discussion.

It's certainly not black and white. Like with music genres, it's all a blur, and as you point out, much of it depends on how an individual defines it for themselves. You say potato... blah!

Phew! What a long post and a well written one. It reminds me of Voltaire's Zadig. Zadig came across two groups of people at a temple and they were almost at each other's throats with one group saying that a person should enter the temple with the right foot stepping first and the other group who argued that the left foot should be the first foot to enter the temple. Zadig resolved the matter by jumping into the temple with both feet together.

Also, the scene where Alice meets Humpty Dumpty in Alice Through the Looking Glass, springs to mind. One of the many activities of men and women consists in slapping derogatory labels on one another, especially those with whom they disagree. It is as though by name calling they feel or imagine that they have somehow defined and confined that which they find disagreeable.

Agnostics are cautious theist..

Very well written and reasoned.

I have always operated under the definitions you shared above.

I’m quite comfortable in my atheism. I’m also comfortable with the agnostics uncertainty and the faith of the religious. To each their own.

i will quote isaac asimov:

“I am an atheist, out and out. It took me a long time to say it. I've been an atheist for years and years, but somehow I felt it was intellectually unrespectable to say one was an atheist, because it assumed knowledge that one didn't have. Somehow, it was better to say one was a humanist or an agnostic. I finally decided that I'm a creature of emotion as well as of reason. Emotionally, I am an atheist. I don't have the evidence to prove that God doesn't exist, but I so strongly suspect he doesn't that I don't want to waste my time.”

now i will quote myself: i can't be an agnostic because i know that there is no tooth fairy, even though i've had more evidence of a tooth fairy than of a deity of any sort. i am not unsure. i feel sure. i don't think i have to prove to myself that the sidewalk (still) exists (or ever existed) by checking every morning. some things are so ridiculous that we DO know, even without proof, because of that good ol' not being able to prove a negative thing. i can't be an agnostic about every damned thing in the world. logic prevails, logic and observation, and those things tell me there are no gods, not abrahamic, not anything that fits any definition of god. (therefore i also am not "spiritual." ) i like prometheus a lot but nope, he's not real either.

that doesn't mean i think agnostics are fools. that only means i can't be one.

g

@silvereyes. Is it not true that this flame up between agnostics and atheists has mostly subsided on this site, compared to the first months of the operation of the site? Seems to me that the two "sides" have accepted that while differences exists, sometimes irreconcilable differences of opinion, that amongst the coalition of the non-religious, we are all ultimately on the same side?

Nice text, I agree.
Strong atheism believe in the non existence due to lack of evidences.

Weak atheism is a refusal to believe, just working and taking decisions based on data and facts.

I am using this terminology because on the day to day life and decisions, both will act as if there is no entity.

Go read on Ignosticism, I think is the next step after agnosticism XD

How does this keep turning up as a new post, when in fact it's the Halley's Comet of the Community, the Old Faithful, the Oh No Not You Again!, Oldie but a Goodie, just when you thought it was safe to go back into the water..post?

For the record, I commented eons ago, stating my atheist credentials on it. Can't remember when, but I know I had more hair back then.

I hear you on this. I call myself an atheist to make it clear I’m a nonbeliever, and also to fight against the stigma again non believers. As if to say “I’m an atheist, this is what we look like.”

It is very simple:

Q1 "Does a god exist?"
A1 "I don't know, I'm agnostic."
Q2 "Do you believe that a god exists?"
A2 "No, I'm an atheist."

No sane atheist would claim to be able to prove the non-existence of a god, hence any sane atheist is also agnostic.

to me it's quite simple. i consider myself an atheist b/c i don't believe in a god that could give a shit (if gods shit) about the human race.
however, i do not disbelieve the possibility that there is a superior intelligence out there so that there could be a supreme being.

I am neither Agnostic or Atheist or religious. I am Secularist/ Humanist/Spiritualist.

I'm agnostic, not atheist. I know the difference. Atheists, on the other hand, are actually agnostic, but don't know it.
Glad I could clear that up.

Most often I find people employ a mutually exclusive category error, claiming you have to be one or the other. But an agnostic is a type of atheist. To be a rational agnostic you have also to be an atheist. Not all atheists are agnostic, and some strange and irrational people might claim to be theist agnostics, but mainly all agnostics are atheistic too.