Nice one ??

That is 100% the way I feel. well 99.9999% anyway. lol

I have to recheck my posts here Keep finding some things left out.

You are on a journey. One that I took. Eventually, I "believe" you will end up a Humanist.
I could define that word, for our reasons, as we are all humans. Some have beliefs in supernatural beings and others doubt we can know.
Agnosticism is the preferred philosophic position, but I find Humanism the friendliest. Once again, we are all humans.
G

What do you atheists not believe in? "God"? What the dickens is that? What do you agnostics withhold judgment on the existence of? "God"? What the dickens is that? An infinite omnipresent incorporeal spirit that created everything but the infinite omnipresent spirit that created everything but itself? What the dickens is that?

As others have pointed out, gnostic relates to a claim of knowledge while theism relates to having belief. They are two separate points that can be mixed and matched either way.

A gnostic theist claims knowledge of and belief in a god. An agnostic theist believes, but claims no knowledge of. A gnostic atheist doesn't believe, and claims to know about god's existence. An agnostic atheist doesn't believe, but claims no knowledge to the existence of a god.

can anyone claim to have read this post, from start to finish ? rule one, keep your comment as brief and to the point as possible, even if you have a million points !

Wow. Awesome post. Thank you and I'm with you. Same reason I won't choose a political party, a football team, or anything else that provides a nugget for someone to glom onto and correct me for. I donna wanna hear it.......I am what I am, and by definition, I define my own 'me'.

Absolutely

You are an agnostic semanticist. Lol! I am a practical atheist, but I am not sure of much of anything. So maybe I am ideologically agnostic. But not sitting on the fence most of the time.

Dogma is hard to irradicate - even among the non-religious.

Very well written! I identify as an Agnostic Atheist.

Look at all these Likes and replies!! Well, you can feel good that your super-long rant did not go unnoticed.
Great rant! Labels seem to be a double-edged sword, don't they? They are a useful shorthand for complex ideas, but that shorthand inevitably ends up with multiple definitions and thereby fails to escape confusion.
Personally, I currently prefer agnostic atheist for myself, but previously favored the label skeptical agnostic. Honestly, though, I happily answer to agnostic, atheist, secular humanist, or freethinker.

And you are so right: None of these labels is perfect. They each have connotations that can somewhat mis-represent us. ...whether it is that we hate and disrespect all religious people (atheist), or that we are wishy-washy cowards afraid to take a stand on anything...or who can't think deeply enough to even comprehend the theological argument (agnostic). None of that is right or fair, but some people have nevertheless thought it of us. Ultimately it seems we will never escape reliance on labels unless we--and the other(s) in our conversations-- are willing and able to always take the time for a thorough discussion. That is usually not how it goes. :/

A well composed,thought provoking post making a person re-examine long standing beliefs,perhaps shaking their foundations of what was steady,and strong.

Thanks Silvereyes, and well said. I appreciate your putting into words what so many of us are feeling

Great rant! Occasionally I wonder if I'm actually agnostic, but saying atheist simplifies it. People are not as likely to start in trying to convince me that their religious argument will be the one that converts me. Plus, my agnosticism comes with some caveats. Such as if God is an asshole, I don't believe he is worth worshipping or in other words he or it may exist, but maybe i don't "believe in" him anyway. Also I do believe in something love-driven that we all are accountable to. I don't necessarily believe that this thing is sentient, judging, or controlling, so, not exactly God. I believe that when you love someone and they love you, something survives after death that can be of great comfort to the survivor. The degree of "real" as opposed to seeing what we want to see is unknown to me, but I lean heavily toward the latter. Doesn't mean if I become widowed I won't indulge myself with the sense of comfort a "sign" from my husband would bring. What does this make me? I'm comfortable with the label "atheist" and certainly "skeptic". I don't believe that bad things come in threes or that my black cat will ever bring me bad luck. I don't believe I can just up and manifest anything I desire. But I also understand that being open to the "magical" in life enriches the experience. To each her own but finding my "tribe" of like-thinkers makes life a little sweeter. Like-thinkers don't have to think exactly alike or agree on every definition.

I'm glad to think I'm part of your unique crowd @silvereyes,
Hey, let's build a tree house!

Interesting but at the end of the day an agnostic cannot call themselves a theist so I kinda think the point is moot. For some of us who go so far as saying we are anti-theist, we are angry that the Lords prayer is said at beginning of parliament, swearing on bible in court and religious instruction in schools. I find religion divisive and feel the world would be a better, kinder place without it so I will proudly shout ATHEIST.

I consider myself an atheist. I think that the Universe we see could have been formed without having some intelligence managing its evolution. There are about 2500 versions of gods all over the world. I do not believe in any of them. For better understanding I recommend you to read "A Brief History of Time" by Stephen Hawking. He explains this much better than I can. It is a short book and may have to read it twice to get a better understanding. I studied electronics which is a branch of physics and it was all mathematics. I got to understand it because in the lab, I could see the math work in the physical world. Later on I was working with very advanced systems used in jet fighters that solidified me as an atheist. This same theory that I have seen work on many occasions does not require a god to jump start a Universe like the one we are in. If quantum mechanics work, which it does, doesn't require a creator why complicate our lives even more. Perhaps in our future there will be another science that explains it all and will be the end of these arguments

Like you, I don't care for labels. All I can definitively say is, for me, there are no gods, period. So, call me what you will, I honestly do not care.

Gods and religions are, in my opinion, derivatives of man's early efforts to explain the unexplainable; which somehow devolved into mechanisms for controlling the less powerful in society and taking advantage of those susceptible to the comfort of belief.

It is beyond my ken that one could look at the universe, and with even the slightest understanding of what we know, evidentially, about it, could firmly enjoin the notion that it was spawned from nothing but the mind of something or some "one" of whom we are not even able to conceive, if you accept the theistic viewpoint. Sounds like pure fantasy to me.

Sorry, but one good rant sometimes begets another rant.

Nice rant Silvereyes. With you all the way! Make sure you put the soapbox away safely. I'm looking forward to the next one

I completely agree. Aren't we all united in our doubt?

Just came across this post. I can say that I do not believe in any organized religion, for various reasons. This does not mean that there is not a force in the Universe which can guide us to a better life. So far that is given us by the laws of Physics, we figure out all there is and can apply it towards a better life for all. Religion cannot.

The 'label' for you is the same as the one for everyone else. "YOU" it is distinctive and beautiful and all YOU need. Leave labeling to others. Any time you take a position on ANY issue, they will label you in a 'New York Minute'!

I feel your pain as an individual but also am aware of the prevalent notion that we must label ourselves in order to let others know where we fit in the constellation of 'isms' and herds swirling about us.

Don't bother. The cattle will ignore you anyway and label you based on whether you seem at the moment to be friend or foe.

Agnostics and atheists share skepticism. The rest is window dressing. Or, if there are really gods, 'adjusting deck chairs'.

Darling, I agree with you 100%. I'm personally agnostic. I can't say there's something there or not. I, personally, almost had my heart fail while having a csection and something stopped it before the paddles were brought in. There was no medical intervention. I can't say what happened, but I'm not going to full on dive into religion that is a giant hypocrisy. The only thing I have ever disliked about the atheist community has been the belittling and shaming of those who do believe. Especially if that person has been polite enough to not impose their views. I hate it when Christians do it too, but I've met more than my share of atheists that have been giant dicks about it.

I watch The Atheist Experience on a regular basis (it was the show that educated me to understand that I was, in fact, an atheist.... and that the label atheist wasn't a scary horrible thing!).

I like the way Matt Dillahunty from that program explains it, and it helped me understand this clearly:

atheism/theism is about BELIEF
agnosicism/gnosticism is about KNOWLEDGE

And he also goes on to explain that knowledge is a subset of belief - that is, knowledge is when you believe to a degree of certainty that it becomes knowledge. Hence, agnosticism is a subset of atheism. Some atheists simply withhold their belief because they haven't been presented with evidence to support the claim that there is a god... and those who are anti-theists, or gnostic theists go one step further and say they believe to the point that they know there are no gods.

This is what I found very helpful in my understanding, and it's how I describe it to others when we talk about this topic.