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Is there anyone here that values the teachings of the bible, but rejects it's supernatural elements?

I believe in objective ethics, and a lot of good ethics overlaps with biblical values. Reason tells me that religious communities have a lot of successful values we can adopt. But it's the dogma and reliance on faith that gets me sad about religious communities.

Wrain62 4 Oct 30
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0

Now that I have listened to Jordan Peterson a whole lot, I do understand that there are deep truths to be found in the ancient traditions. The Testaments have a lineage from the past - through Egypt back to Mesapotamia. He has more or less covered Genesis but in doing so he discussed some ancient Akkadian gods too. This is book is part of who we are, Everyone used to read it a lot, so references to it pervade literature. It is worth having a familiarity with it. I agree that there are some dreadful wrong things in it that are not a guide or moral inspiration for anyone to follow. In amongst the history and stories there is gold.

0

The New Testament has many admirable messages...love thy neighbour...for instance. It also comes with magic and mysticism which are questionable, so we would need it cherrypick the passages with the messages we agree with and discard the rest. The Old Testament, is a horrific book with no merit whatsoever especially not in any historical or moral context and should never be used as anything except as an example of bad literature.

0

ya, we have turned faith into beliefs but it is likely meant to be much closer to what we would now tell someone who has never flown on a plane before, and is apprehensive about it; iow, "the dangerous part was the trip here in the car." [abarim-publications.com]

1

Well, there are pleny of good things, that can be found in the Bible and are worth following, however there are also pleny of horrible things.
So the answer is to think about the Bible as most of the Christians do - to cherrypick. We can use good bits and leave the rest behind.

0

Agreed 100%

4

Only the kind teachings of the Bible. mostly seen in the New Testament. I am all for the don't hit people in the head with a big stick, forgiveness, judge not lest you be judged, charity, love the sinner, hate the sin and love thy neighbor. These are things one can learn from parents. However, the Bible was the most violent book I have ever read. I read it for Western Civilization when I was in getting my undergrad.

2

I've read much of the bible, and although I reject the supernatural aspects, I've found some of the teachings of Jesus to be reasonable and actually supportive of the Humanist philosophy...boils down to "Don't be an ass." I helped my daughter through a suicidal time with it - she was raised Catholic thanks to my ex, and thought god hated her because she's lesbian. I talked to her using Jesus as the base...e.g. if he was around today, he'd support the LGBT community, as he always sought out those marginalized by mainstream society.

1

I agree that religion contains ethics BUT ethics does not require religion. I believe that to be a good person, one should have a set of ethics to live by, but I don't believe that one has to have religion to be a good person.

4

There are universal ethics that have squat to do with the bible. No indiscriminate killing, etc. The other nitpicky crap in the bible is mostly used for evil. The lessons of the bible include being pro-rape, pro-slavery, pro-genocide, and generally just a reflection of some of the worst ideas floating around the mediterranean a few thousand years ago.

...I.agree,some of the "good examples"were
of their time and needed constant updating..
The church states INFALLIBILITY in all
Bible text.(Catholic).
Yet principles that benefit humanity
need independent/consistent support and
updating- I found the churches+tRump
(All religions zealots) going backward
for years===to humanities determent...

1

It's a good history book. It may be a little biased. The difference is which version you have.

Er excuse my ignorance, but remember that I have read the Goat-Herders Guide to the Galaxy, aka, the Bible, from cover to cover, word by word, etc, etc,, more times than I care to remember and absolutely NOWHERE does it correlate with ANY ACTUAL History, Achaeology, etc, what-so-ever in any real shape nor form.
It is merely a compendium of hi-jacked myths and fire-side stories from innumerable older cultures that existed long before the Hebrews could even read, let alone write.

2

The Moralities and Ethics of decent human kind were never derived from the bible nor any other religion based ideology. They came about, more than likely, as early humans went from being isolated family type clans into more co-operative Tribal Groups, religious beliefs merely hi-jacked these moral and ethical codes for their own ends and means since man has been a somewhat moral and ethical being since long, long before religions were ever invented.

4

The bible isn't the standard, it's a collection of stories. I no more value 'teachings ' in the bible than I do from a Harry Potter novel.

I also take issue with the notion that we can take values from religious communities, they take values from the good aspects of humanity.

Harry Potter is where all the good life lessons live.

2

Objective ethics is kind of a sham. There's plenty of reasons why crimes can happen and be well justified. Beyond that you need to specify what you mean by removing the super natural elements. Removing the character of God or changing him to be a human both have dire consequences on the narrative so unless what you're trying to say is "is there value for the Bible if you cherry pick currently valid norms?" The answer would be yes.

@Tibert I'm reasonably certain the only value fifty shades gives us how to identify an abusive boyfriend

3

Would I change my support of something from good to bad if it was also the moral of a Bible verse? I am a big proponent of critical thinking and the Bible has no influence on my thinking one way or the other.

OCJoe Level 6 Oct 31, 2018
3

No.......

2

For all of the Blood that was spilled over it, I cannot give an value whatsoever. If your a fan of Joel Olsteen, Jimmy Swaggert, Pat Robertson et al then your totally lost. For a Book that evolved from the Council of Nicea under the directive of a Pagan Emperor who looked to centralize the Populace. So if you think that embellished stories that are meshed with Pagan Rituals to ease the transformation then I would have give you a "no" on that one.
Now if you want to go and explore the lost books of the Gospels that were destroyed and some which have been recently discovered in Caves of Iran and various other places, I would be interested in seeing what they contain. I have gone into reading such authors such as Bart Erhman, Martin Luther, Bruce Metzger, Anthony Pinn and Noam Chomsky.

0

I look at some of the teachings in the bible as a good conduct handbook, that’s about it.

ocrab Level 4 Oct 31, 2018
4

A pastor on the radio yesterday (1A) stated that there are 270 separate bible passages that endorse slavery. No thank you. I will pass on the whole shebang.

3

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

And when you understand that morality is a work product of society, not of religious faith ... then religious faith cannot depart very much from societal morality or it would be censured by society as ... immoral. As the Catholic Church is currently finding out.

The Bible is a vague template that is "timeless" in the sense that it can be adapted to the needs of the moment, so I think a lot of its moral teachings are just cherry-picked and have the host society's values projected onto them. "Thou shalt not kill" for example is such a universal concept across all societies that it's really not profound, it's kind of a "well, duh" sort of admonition.

Then there's the problem that the Bible is full of bad moral concepts. For example it doesn't decry slavery, it assumes it as a given and provides instructions to be both a good slave and a good slave-owner. In other words it's a product of its time and leads from behind. It's blind to the injustices of its era.

That said, sure, there are passages one can admire. I memorized Romans 13 as a child (the so-called "love chapter" ) and still admire its teaching for what it is. There are various Biblical aphorisms I can agree with. But neither is there any extraordinary wisdom or morality in its pages. It's just another book.

....agree-"product" of its time,,for a consumer
group; I was taught in high school to look
at other religions(critically) found similarities.
The leaders aren't critical/updated;
may have benefited humanity at
one time::::not now

3

There is, it seems, a scarlet thread of truth that runs though most all religious systems. I attribute it to the fact that total bullshit is a pretty hard sell! None the less, by combining study of all (most) religion with the eventual rejection of most (all) of it
my original tendency to second quess myself regarding all related subjects has been replaced by a peaceful, comfortable confidence. That is invaluable. Also, history and religion, while often presented on the same page, are very different

0

There is, it seems, a scarlet thread of truth that runs though most all religious systems. I attribute it to the fact that total bullshit is a pretty hard sell! None the less, by combining study of all (most) religion with the eventual rejection of most (all) of it
my original tendency to second quess myself regarding all related subjects has been replaced by a peaceful, comfortable confidence. That is invaluable. Also, history and religion, while often presented on the same page, are very different

3

I think that morality, like most things, is subjective to the era in which we live. The Bible as a whole is too dated to be pointed to as a good source of ethics and morality. The fact that some of it's teachings are used to fuel hatred is a good enough reason to disregard it and find teachings elsewhere.

3

I don't. The NT talks of "Jesus" aren't very good and to add the parts of that supposed guy called Saul/Paul aren't much better.

2

I do not believe in the bible, but sure, there are lots of people who take the bible as a spiritual metaphor, not literally.

3

Religion is a human artifact. One would expect much of what religion teaches to be a reasonable guide to a harmonious society.

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