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Do you think that one "chooses" to become an atheist or is it more like they always were but only realized it?

If you accept the statement "there is no god, therefore religion (Christianity, etc) is false" as true, then the argument can be made that you weren't really a Christian because Christianity is not real.
For example, you think you are an alien and call yourself an alien, then realize that that belief was false and now call yourself a human. You didn't choose to be a human, you only realized you were one.

Sorry if it is confusing.

AnnaMD 5 Dec 28
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73 comments

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The truth of the matter is that EVERY child is born an Atheist, it is ONLY after they are either indoctrinated or allowed to develop their minds free from said indoctrination that they become either ' faithfools' or Atheists.

I agree with you. I also think that Christians would say that every child is born a Christian, Jews would say every child is born Jewish, etc

@AnnaMD Exactly and every one of them would 100% incorrect since NO newborn child is even remotely aware of either God or religion until it has been told/indoctrinated.

@Triphid Children can't be religious because they cannot think independently for themselves at that age. I believe someone important said something like that, I just can't remember who.

@Triphid If they aren't even aware of the very notion of gods , then they cannot very well reject them now can they ? I think that saying that since babies don't yet know about God they are atheist would be like saying that since children are not yet aware of what government is they must all be anarchist .

@Marmion As a Registered and once practicing, now retired, Male Mid-wife with the delivery of 164 babies under my belt over numerous years I can say most adamantly that NO new-born baby is aware of anything except its immediate need for comfort, warmth, food and security.
I have NEVER once seen a new-born arrive into this world and immediately begin to pray for its safe arrival, etc, etc, have you ever seen such?

It's very easy to forget just how unstructured our consciousness is early in life. I have vague recollections going back to about age 12-15 months, when I hardly even knew what I was. I was mostly a little bundle of reflexes. I didn't even think about anything much beyond my parents and toys. God never entered my mind.

@Triphid By that criteria though , all animals are atheists .

@Marmion Yes, that is a very much more than likely possibility since any ideology involving a deity is merely just a human concept at its very best, I'm sure you'd agree on that fact.

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Christianity is real, just like all philosophies are real, whether or not they are based on reality.

So, in answer to your question, as @Triphid stated, I was born an atheist, then became religious by accepting indoctrination, and finally chose to be atheist later in life.

Ergo, you ALLOWED your mind to develop despite the indoctrination/s you had been subjected to.
Kudos to you then my friend.

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Your Premise is not accurate.

To not correctly define atheist as one that accept the premise "there is no god" shifts the burden of proof from the theist (there is a god) to the not theist.

Atheist (not a theist) is simply not accepting the theists positive (there is a god) assertion.

If you believe there is a god/s, you are a theist/polytheist
If you lack that belief you are an atheist. (not a theist)

@alliwant No.

Wrong on two fronts.

The atheist does not doubt. The atheists (does not accept) HUGE difference.

Denial vs doubt is not applicable to my (what I considered was obvious) The word denial implies something has been demonstrated and is not accepted. This is not applicable.

The original definition is "There is no god" this is a positive assertion that unnecessarily places a burden of proof on the person asserting there is not god. If you assign that (INCORRECT) definition of atheist, you place the burden of proof on the atheist to demonstrate there is not god. This is not necessary and a no-win position. The correct position is "does not accept the positive there is a god assertion." Now the burden is on the person asserting the positive "there is a god" assertion.

Rather then type a page to explain this, PLEASE watch this video. All his points are worth watching but If you in a hurry, advance to 11:25. He will do a very good job of describing the burden of proof.

Now onto you use of Antitheism "Antitheism, also known pejoratively as "militant atheism" (despite having nothing to do with militancyWikipedia's W.svg) is the belief that theism and religion are harmful to society and people, and that even if theistic beliefs were true, they would be undesirable. Antitheism, which is often characterized as outspoken opposition to theism and religion, asserts that religious and especially theistic beliefs are harmful and should be discarded in favor of humanism, rationalism, science and other alternatives." quoted from rationalwiki.org

Time stamp 11:25

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I think you choose what you believe in. It's chose to leave religion and not have be burdened by fairy tales and dogma. I have few regrets in live, but I wish I was an atheist at your age. Instead of an religious closed minded fool.

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It's all belief...so it's all choice. You can believe in unicorns and whether they exist or not you believe they do. Just like every religious person in the world believes in their religion because they choose to. One chooses to be an atheist because they realize that there is no god.

lerlo Level 8 Dec 28, 2018
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As young as i can remember maybe 4 or 5 i couldn't understand catholic church. At that age did i make a choice ?

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i never was a christian. i was raised as a very secular jew. i wasn't an atheist. i believed in a vague way in a personal god, who functioned as a kind of witness to my lonely childhood. that was comforting. when at the age of 15 i realized there were no gods, it didn't even occur to me that this meant rejecting judaism, since the parts of judaism in which i was raised had nothing to do with god's wanting or requiring me to do this or that. being jewish meant being kind to people, helping the needy, using logic (look up "pilpul" ), stuff like that, which doesn't depend on the existence of a god. of course, judaism and jewishness are not the same thing, interconnected though they may be. judaism is a religion and jewishness is an ethnicity and culture. so i cannot say i either was an atheist all along or that i made a decision to become one, nor that i rejected religion per se (or at least jewish identity), though christianity has always seemed odd to me (and which as practiced these days seems actually evil in many respects).

g

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Phrases like "we believe" were dead giveaways of a scam when I was a kid (that is, using "we" to include me). How could someone else be telling me what "we believe". How did they know what I believed? But since everyone around me seemed to believe it, I figured it must make sense to someone who knew something somewhere. So it was in my head as probably true, I just didn't understand how. I went to Sunday school briefly, expecting to learn something useful the way I did in regular school. I mean, even in regular school the classes that weren't hard science were agreed upon language conventions, history, even physical health (no one claimed sitting in a corner and praying made you healthier). But there wasn't anything like that in Sunday school. The other kids took nothing seriously. NOTHING. They were there for donuts and hot chocolate, and that was it. I was there to learn these secrets of the universe. And it became clear very quickly that there were no secrets to the universe, and that "god's house" was just a second-hand, single-wide trailer behind the church. I can remember thinking that god should be able to afford something better to teach children the secrets of the universe, and sadly I seemlessly understood this was just what the people who went to this church could afford...probably over a long period of time at that. It was like being told you were going to the Emerald City to not only discover there was no Wizard, but that the city was a second-hand, single-wide mobile home, lol. I was only mildly disappointed. I cried when I found out Santa wasn't real two years prior...after a serious investigation into the presents in my parents' closet.

You need a hug. Or at least the child who cried when learning that Santa was a myth, needs a hug.

@Lilith My mom hugged me at the time. Dad told her to tell me--in front of me--that they were presents for my cousins. Which made me howl louder because we already gave my cousins their presents, and because dad thought I was so stupid that he could tell mom to tell me they were someone else's presents when I could HEAR him telling her (because she was hugging me). I really did like Santa, lol.

1

The way I see it, Religion and God are two different things that have nothing to do with one another. "Religion" is a socio/cultural financial concept. Humankind chose to anthropomorphize the Creative Energy and called it "God". Religious institutions Monetized it. In an Infinite Universe all things exist. Creation is ongoing and we don't know fuck about it. We don't even know the planet we live on, how arrogant to presume that that we know anything at all.

Actually we do know a great deal about the universe and how the world works. I find it beautiful and exhilarating.

@MsDemeanour Actually, we do not. We have extrapolated concepts from what we think are observable phenomena. Physics however, is a matter of star alignment perspective. Not the same here as there.

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You do not have conscience control over the conclusions your brain comes to. We do not choose to stop believing rather we discover we are no longer convinced. We do not choose whether evidence is convincing or not to us. You can choose how you act but you can't choose what information your brain accepts as true or insufficient

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Everyone is born atheist. Religion is pushed on them. People then choose to be open minded and question or they do not.

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Belief is not voluntary. we believe one way or the other based on our understanding of the evidence, and the conclusion that evidence causes us draw. some people accept bad evidence.

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I think it’s a realisation that you come to. For me it came from studying science and physics, and realising that the bible’s tales of miracles were rubbish. I mean, virgin birth? Walking on water? Multiplying loaves of bread and fishes? Raising the dead? All extremely unlikely, and I mean by that percentile chances in very tiny amounts.

And if the miracles are bogus, then what other lies are in there? Some parts of the bible are extremely outdated, like sending menstruating women away from the ‘camp’. Crazy.

But these things are all knowledge that you absorb from society and the people around you. The bible is taught, you find out it’s just another book written by fallible humans, your belief goes.

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"Choice" is a mirage. Examine any belief u hold, like u can safely operate a car, then try to change it and live with the belief. If, however, u are repeatedly in accidents, ur belief begins to reflect ur reality.
Same with atheism.,. Just try to believe in supernatural beings, let me know

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Belief, attraction, fear and other emotion driven thoughts are not choices. One can choose to overlook any of those and with repeated exposure they can affect those emotions. However, the initial reaction is still valid and was never a choice.

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I think it's possible to be a believer and to lose that belief based upon evidence or experience. While we may choose to ignore facts, arguments, or evidence, I don't think we choose what we believe or don't. The things that ultimately convince us or inform or opinions often come unbidden, and can cause unwelcome changes to our lives. It would be much easier, for instance, for me to be a devoted Christian believer where I live. If I frequented any church in this little town, I'd probably be dating some nice, financially stable man within a few short months, and be embraced by a congregation of welcoming "friends." As desirable as that outcome would seem, I cannot make myself believe something I consider dishonest and absurd, nor could I respect a man who does.

Deb57 Level 8 Dec 29, 2018

@Byrdsfan Well, thank you! 🙂

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Like most things, I don’t think we have much choice in what we do and do not believe. We just do or do not.

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I have had beliefs change over time, as my awareness of the world around me has grown. But, I don't think I can really decide to believe 'X' . It results from information I have.I have had beliefs change as I followed information I had thru to its logical ends. Without the knowlege to back it up, i cannot decide to believe in say... 'The Force'. I just cant.

The difference between not being convinced God exists, and , convinced that no god exists, may be revelant here. Personally Im pretty sure no gods exist.

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I don't think you're born to be anything. When you are born, you haven't been socialized. I think belief and non-belief are part of the socialization one learns over time. It's how open you are to applying free will and to the expansion of your mind to new ideas and concepts.

A person gains their personality through trial and error, I suspect. I don't think the concept of belief or non-belief get to fly under the radar any more than any other social construct.

0

I didn't choose to become an atheist. I looked at the reason to believe in god or relgion. I looked at the arguments against it and just wasn't convinced. To my athiesm is just not being convinced of any religion or seeing any evidence to requires there to be a god.

1

No one chooses what to believe. But there are many hypocrites who act like they believe to reap some benefit.

Also, I believe If you accept the statement "there is no god, therefore religion (Christianity, etc) is false" as true, is backwards to the usual order of things. I think I would be strange for someone to arrive at the conclusion that there is no god before realizing religion is false. From what I hear, people find flaws in their religion, and then question the existence of gods.

that didn't happen to me. i didn't question what little religion my family had; i just independently came to the realization there was no god. i didn't even connect it in my mind with religion. of course i was never a christian; maybe it works that way for christians.

g

4

Hilariously enough, by the definition of Christian, I'm a far better Christian now than I ever was before. Christian means "little Christ" and now that I study Buddhist and stoic philosophy, I'm more Christ-like. I forgive people because they know not what they do. I pardon humanity of my imagined sins, the slings and arrows. I also see myself as part of a greater universe. I also learned to suspend judgement, which Jesus also teaches, but not well. If Christian's never asked me about religion, and also followed their own, we'd get along swimmingly!

Do you believe in reincarnation?

@MsDemeanour Not necessarily. I believe in possibilities, not certainties.

@K9Kohle789 so you believe in an afterlife?

@K9Kohle789 I think the light bulb episodes and your husband's passing are recent events you feel must be in some way connected, since they are roughly contemporaneous. To suggest that the one caused the other in some way is certainly not logically justified. It makes as much sense - none - to say that your husband's death caused some fault with the lighting as it does to say that the faulty lighting killed him.

@Kohle789 the dime thing. I never heard anyone else talk about it before but yes, without going into details, I have a little piggy bank that is half full of dimes I find in odd times and places but always when a lost dear one is on my mind.
There are too many strange things that happen over a long lifetime that chip away at the rigid beliefs we cling to.

3

There are thousands if not millions of "gods". Anything that can be conceptualized is +real+. Thought=matter=reality. Religion and god are not the same thing. Religion is commerce, "God" is personal.

There doesn't have to be a "reason" for God. There is no "reason" for us, either.

@Lilith I agree there is no reason for us. But we are real. There has to be a reason for God or religion or neither would exist. I believe that reason to be fear of death in most instances or naturally occurring phenomenon for which uneducated people cannot determine or accept the cause. Do you think belief in Gods spontaneously arose?

@mooredolezal I think "GODS" are relative. I do not believe in A God. I believe that GODS are simply a superior species. I have several personal stories in mind.

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People do not come out of the womb complete with all kinds of beliefs. political, religious, and so on. Such beliefs are formed as one matures, and for the "vast majority," they are virtually inherited, because the individuals are the subject of indoctrination from a quite early age. They grow up believing that what they believe is just natural and is something they inherited along with the remainder of the Life package. That's why it is so difficult and painful when an individual begins to question those attitudes and beliefs; I suspect there's a good bit of guilt feeling that goes along with it. I personally began questioning such things at a quite early age, perhaps, 7 or 8, and by the time I was around 13 or 14, I had pretty much written most of it off, but kept my mouth shut about it. At 16, I was offered financial support to go to college, by the minister and Deacons of the church I attended, if I would agree to study the ministry. Of course, they had unwittingly forced my hand, and I had to confess that I could not accept such an offer, even though I was deeply appreciative of their trust in me. I left church that day I told them, and I have never been back. Ordinarily I say nothing about it unless someone else brings it up, but I do not shy away from it either. I feel obligated to speak the truth as I understand it, but I am not a proselyte. I learned long ago that you cannot change any else's mind; they must do it for themselves, so it is useless and generally unwanted for one to try. I do not pretend to have "the answer" nor do I believe anyone else does, so who am I to tell someone else what to believe?

1

Indeed. You don’t choose to stop believing in Santa Claus, you just realize he can’t possibly exist and everyone’s been lying to you!

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