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I'm still not convinced climate change is a problem. Can you convince me otherwise?

I'll admit it. In my past religious life, I did not believe in the climate change crisis. I'm open to the idea now but I'm still skeptical.

It's not that I don't believe in global warming. All I have to do is look out the window to confirm that. What I struggle with is the idea of certain catastrophy due to human causes. From what I understand at the moment, rising temperatures are not necessarily going to keep rising indefinitely and so far it's not a bad thing because it opens up more land worldwide to the production of food.

Please feel free to post evidence for why you believe we're heading for catastrophy or other conclusions about climate change. Insults will be ignored.

Edited to add: Thanks for all the great links, everyone. I'm working my way through them. Feel free to add but I think I've said all I can at the moment. I'll just be looking through everything for a while.

UpsideDownAgain 7 Feb 15

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41 comments

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4

I can simplify this for you.

Climate change will never wipe out the Earth or all living things.

There is nothing humans can do that the Earth can not fix on its own.

The timeline of the Earth is extremely long.

What climate change WILL DO is to make the Earth inhospitable for humans.
We will be the ones to die.

I can’t convince you, nor can anyone else on here. Simply read the science. You either believe it or you don’t. However what’s the logic of falsifying the facts here?

Fix climate change we all are healthier.
Ignore climate change big business gets richer.

Seems obvious who’s not telling the truth here. The ones with the money.

Educate yourself. That’s your job not ours. It’s irrelevant to me if you believe in it or not.

Big business gets richer either way . . .

@Meili
And big busi.... Oh hell! I forgot what I was going to type...

3

About if opening more land to grow food, the downside is that it also does the complete opposite. A lot of land becomes non arable too.

3

No, because I already read the comments and I think you are an idiot and a troll and I will not waste my time. The points to be gained in a troll thread are not that important to me, I would rather block you, never to cross paths with your ignorance again.

3

I’m calling this. You have no interest in the science... the thread is clear.

So just be honest and say you want to believe stuff because it makes you feel better. But the pseudo “give me the evidence”? Nope. That’s not honest. This is not up for scientific debate.

The scisence is in (as Carl Sagan would say). We can reasonably conclude and the experts have absolutely done so.

It's not honest to ask for evidence?

@Meili Nonita not: not when the evidence is given and clear. It’s profoundly dishonest. Profoundly so. You aren’t interested in facts - demonstrably: I don’t know why not but that is clear. The experts have no doubt. And yet you do.

It’s just like anti vaxxers.

@OwlInASack It's not the evidence that I'm seriously questioning. It's the interpretation of the evidence.

@Meili what interpretation do you mean? I’m really struggling here.

The evidence is;

1) the world is warming faster and ina more sustained manner than at any time in history
2) sea levels are rising very fast
3) impacts on humans are happening now
4) carbon levels are not the highest they’ve ever been but the waarming gas combination with sun strength is the most potent it’s been in measured history (and I mean geological history)
5) humans are releasing large amount of CO2 and methane and have done so for many decades: much more than they did previously

If the ‘interpretation ‘ is that 5) causes 1) to 4) its better to say there is no credible theory that explains how it couldn’t, other than those sponsored by Exxon

3

Its is so much more then warming or changes in specific weather systems. For me who is not a scientist but consider myself reasonably intelligent the reality is best expressed in the following examples. We live in a closed system surrounded by the vacuum of space. We have for centuries pumped various poison gases into this system. Largely through energy production based on coal, oil, wood etc. Not to mention the methane produced by our massive beef production through cattle. We have at the same time decimated forests all over the world for use as grazing land for cattle and farm land. This results in a massive net loss in large scale fauna for carbon absorption and conversion back into oxygen. This has also vastly increased the carbon absorbed by the oceans and resulted in dead zones and acidification of said oceans. This is killing off fish and other marine animals. Add in pesticides, heavy metals, garbage burning and disposal and we are shitting were we live. A lot. Read about the insect die off if anything scares me its that. Insects are the bedrock for the entirety of most ecosystems, without them no pollination which means no crops, no food for birds and small and large mammals, herbivores die off which means no carnivores. The last to go would be omnivores, scavengers and the like. My question to you and any other skeptics is not so much the minutia of the issue but a simple question; why not use less, waste less? Too me the only reason to not accept the existence of climate change and our impact on the worlds ecosystems is fear of having less, of giving up material goods. Something as small as driving rather then walking, of buying electronics and throwing away the old for something better add up to the current state of things. Your statement about "believing" in climate change is the one of the roots of the problem. Their is no belief. Their are mountains of evidence. And logic shows the center cannot hold with the weight of our population and our industrial mode of living.

Quarm Level 6 Feb 15, 2019

Great comments. Lots to think about. Thanks.

3

You are 100% correct. Here in the USA we spend MUCH more money heating our homes than we do cooling our homes. People still chose to move from New York to Florida when they retire.

When we get to the point where we spend more cooling our homes than heating our homes, and when people are moving from Florida to New York, then we have to do something, but until then:

Slightly warmer weather.
Slightly more rain.
Slightly longer growing season.

All good.

There is no globally optimal temperature, but here in the USA, we are well below our optimal temperature.

BD66 Level 7 Feb 15, 2019

Except weather does not equal climate, the world doesn’t exist to make the US more comfortable, and climate change makes cold weather more intense as well as hot. Did you not notice the polar vortex being thrown off balance and covering the US in temps colder than Siberia a couple weeks ago? But yeah other than that everything’s fine. If your argument is that you’re not gonna be satisfied until most of the country is as hot as florida I’ve got bad news for you: 1 at that point it’s too late. And 2 old people are ALWAYS gonna be cold it doesn’t matter how hot it gets. Their circulation is bad ffs but yeah by all means let’s make the country an oven for them, and only when we can’t breathe, then it’s time to seriously consider the prospect that we should think about panicking.

You are so wrong it's almost laughable. It's not that simple. I'm not going to repeat what everyone else has said so I suggest you read the other comments. It's not just about temperature.

@Wurlitzer The US does not exist to make the world more comfortable

@BD66 Without the world, the US would not exist...do you honestly think that we are that grand that we are exempt from feeling the effects of what is happening across the world? Hurricanes hitting our coasts do not originate in the USA...nor do polar vortexes...I have seen your other posts...you are not that stupid or uncaring...

@thinktwice Climate change is literally filling the void left by no God and no Jesus for the lefties on this sight. It gets too hot -> Climate Change, It gets too cold -> Climate Change. It rains too much -> Climate Change. It rains too little -> Climate Change. There is a forest fire -> Climate Change. All of the following happened prior to 1850:

Heat Waves
Polar Vortices
Floods
Droughts
Fires

All of these things are happening today, but instead of praising or blaming God/Jesus, now it's all due to climate change.

@BD66 Learn the difference between weather and climate change and I will be happy to discuss this with you...weather events and the actual change in temperature of the oceans are not the same...the scientific evidence has been around way before most of us even became atheist/agnostic...the fact that it has escalated is not because of the exchange of god/jesus in it's stead....it is because information is gathered and disseminated way faster now...

@thinktwice I've looked at data for the Global Mean Surface Temperature, Global Sea Levels, Global Typhoon energy, Global Coal, Oil, and Natural Gas consumption going all the way back to 1880. So far we have burned about 40% of the Earth's fossil fuels. The CO2 levels are about 120 ppm higher, the Earth is about 1.2C warmer, and Sea Levels are about 1 foot higher. Global typhoon energy has gone down. There is no evidence any of these effects are nonlinear in a negative way. If we burn he remaining 60% of our fossil fuels, it's quite likely CO2 levels will be 180 to 200ppm higher, The Global Mean Surface temp will be 1.8C higher, Sea Levels will be 1.5 to 2 feet higher, and Global typhoon energy will be no higher than it is today. There is nothing to be alarmed about. There is nothing that requires huge sacrifices on the part of US Citizens. It's time to stop the hysteria.

@BD66 I guess until you have a PhD behind your name, I will stick to the experts around the globe; this is a global issue and not just a US issue...which I am beginning to see your nationalist stance...so, thank you for your views...I see no reason to continue in this conversation...have a good day...

@thinktwice I do have a PhD behind my name, and I have 35 patents.

@BD66 ahh...sorry..deleting my original reply to that and taking the high road...have a good day...

@BD66 Can you post links to some sources?

@Meili Sure:

Historical Global Mean Surface Temperature:

[earthobservatory.nasa.gov]

Historical change in Sea Level:

[researchgate.net]

Historical Cyclone Energy:

[policlimate.com]

@BD66 Thanks!

@Meili More Stuff:

Historical change in C02:

[researchgate.net]

Worldwide Coal Consumption:

[tititudorancea.com]

Worldwide Oil Consumption:

[labs.timogrossenbacher.ch]

Worldwide Natural Gas Consumption:

[yearbook.enerdata.net]

Global Fossil Fuel Reserves:

[worldcoal.org]

2

These "skeptical" links are really bad. Seriously, people need to stop claiming to be "skeptical" when they accept bullshit from unknown/unreliable sources.

Marz Level 7 Feb 16, 2019
2

Here's the simplified way of looking at it.

The earth has always gone through climate change. Periods of heat and cold.

The problem is we humans are greatly accelerating that climate change due to carbon and chemicals we put into the air.

Had the dinosaurs not been killed off by an asteroid (because they didn't have a space program lol) they would have eventually been victims of a normal shift in planetary climate themselves.

It's the same process for us however we've greatly accelerated it. The Earth will not die, it's a robust planet. However most flora and fauna will die, including us.

The loss of ice cap density as a symptom will allow seas to rise which will destroy coastal areas. Following that serious resource shortages as every one on every continent must move inland. Eventually that lack of space on top of wild swings in temperature and weather patterns will cause mass extinctions. We might survive until the end but what will happen when crops don't grow and livestock can't survive or even be used because of a lack of space to live in?

In the end it's simply mathematics

And just for reference I'm not a scientist. I'm a sports analyst and even I understand it.

do you really understand the greenhouse effect?
CO2 will prevent heat from escaping our atmosphere but it will also prevent heat from entering our atmosphere to begin with.
NASA scientists now are leaning towards CO2 acting more as a coolant.
since you are one of the committed, the above probably won't mean anything to you.

@callmedubious SOME nowhere near a consensus and nothing beyond a loose idea. Not even peer reviewed. Go try and troll someone else.

2

[pbs.org] this documentary has a minneapolis local meteorologist in it, who is a devout catholic, and didn't believe in climate change either, until he did RESEARCH!

2

@Meili -- Giving you evidence here is not going to help. All the information/evidence you need is readily available. When you say you're questioning the interpretation of the evidence gathered thus far indicates that you think you know enough about science to make determinations about evidence and its interpretation. If that is true, you know enough about research to get the information for yourself in more abundance from more reliable sources than what is available here. To help you along your way, I suggest you get what information is out there on the issue from NASA, NOAA, Scripps Institution of Oceanography, and others, then draw your own informed and considered conclusions.

2

just a couple of degrees warmer is hard on trees. No trees no air to breathe.
We've tons of trees succumbing to needle blight in SE Michigan . It's very sad.
Trees only have so many sets of leaves to fall back on when they get fooled into thinking it's spring, then get hit with a crippling freeze.

The range of Chagas triatome reduuvae is also spreading north where they're not indigenous. Those fuckers spread heart disease.

Also, climate change doesn't give 2 shits about whether people believe in it or not.
It will affect people in ways they can't put 2 & 2 together like "hmmmm, why are avocados so expensive this year? It's ridiculous!". And they'll go about their merry way in cluelessness.

2

Looks like no one here will convince you so go do your own research. Or just sit by in blissful ignorance until the effects of climate change start impacting your life and your children’s lives. Of course, by then it will be too late but at least you stood true to your ignorance!

Amen!

Oh, wait, I thought we were in church, listening to a sermon, filled with emotional appeal..... My mistake.

@Meili no - you’re believing what you want to and ignoring the empirical well researched evidence

Now that’s religious

Not a sermon, just saying it's not worth bothering with people who are determinedly ignorant.

@jerry99 And it's a classic way of shutting people down that I'm used to hearing in religious settings.

I don't care.

2

[en.m.wikipedia.org]

Average annual temperature of NYC is 55.3 degrees Fahrenheit

Average annual temperature of Boston is 51.7 degrees Fahrenheit

NYC, is 3.6 degrees warmer than Boston on average.

According to NASA satellite measurements, the earth is warming at the rate of 0.13 degrees Celsius per decade, or 0.23 degrees Fahrenheit.

[drroyspencer.com]

Divide 3.6 by 0.23 and you learn that Boston is projected to be as warm as NYC in 15.7 decades, or 157 years.

No one knows if temperatures will continue as they are going, but if they do, assuming uniform change, in 157 years Boston will be as warm as NYC is currently. Would that be a sky-falling catastrophe?

Thanks for the info.

2

If I recall you are an antivaxxer so I am not going to waste my time trying to explain to you why climate change is going to cause chaos in the world in a few decades. Do some research, On second thoughts,if your previous research showed you that inoculation against infectious and contagious disease is harmful maybe it's not worthwhile. Just live in ignorance.

Anti-vax? You're wise not to waste your time.

@maturin1919 I'm not anti-vax.

@Meili I'm sorry if I am confusing you with someone else or have you changed your stance ?

@Moravian I don't believe I've ever expressed my opinions on vaccination on this site.

@Meili My apologies then. I must be confusing you with someone else who has a profile photo similar to yours. I had a look for the thread and it appears to have been removed.

2

A lot of info here and I'm not sure if this was mentioned, but there's one very simple system in place, that if disrupted kills 99.9% of life on the planet.

Methane constantly bubbles up from the bottom of the ocean (where it is stored in massive quantities). This is normally fine as there are massive amounts of tiny creatures that eat it and almost none of it bubbles up to the surface.

These creatures are VERY sensitive to temperature change and are already dying out becasue of it.

If they die out methane gers to the surface, then the atmosphere. This will ramp up the greenhouse effect like nothing else can, basically turning this planet into a Venus' little sibling killing most life for millions of years to come.

Oceans get warm = creatures that eat methane die = runaway greenhouse effect = everything dies.

And this can happen very, very quickly if the wrong temperature is achieved.

2

Climate change doesn’t mean that it’s warmer today than it was yesterday, nor does it mean that it’s warmer this winter than it was last... It’s an average rise in temperatures, air pressure, humidity, and precipitation over a 30 year period. Industrialization has caused more gases to remain trapped in the atmosphere than ever before. The surface of the Earth is heated through radiation absorbed from the sun, but most of the sun’s radiation is reflected away - these “greenhouse gases” are trapping the heat and warming the Earth more and more. So, who cares? Animals living in Arctic regions are losing their homes and some are heading toward extinction. Heat waves and droughts caused by changes in precipitation (due to the fluctuation of air convection patterns across the globe) and higher temperatures affect all organisms in any given region. When climates change, even slightly, animals like birds and insects are likely to find new environments to live in, bringing with them any number of unknown problems. While the growing season IS longer, many plants are growing faster than they should which doesn’t give them the time to develop vitamins and minerals that are essential for health - and droughts will negatively affect some currently productive agricultural areas anyway. More rainfall in some areas means more extreme weather like hurricanes and storms, it’s not as if we can manually control the Earth’s water cycle and use it to our advantage. I saw an article the other day about salmon that are not reproducing naturally because the warming of the rivers has messed with their reproductive organs, but I didn’t read it yet so I want to go learn more about that LOL....

Damn, I want to label this “Part 1” because there is SO. MUCH. MORE.

I should note that when I say I only need to look out the window to confirm global warming, it's in relation to my memories of winters about 30 years ago when I was a kid. It used to snow and stay under freezing all winter so that the snow stayed on the ground until March when things began to thaw out. The past few years, the temperatures hover around freezing so that we get snow one day, have it melt a couple days later, then we get rain another day, and so forth. I don't even have to look at the charts to know the average temperatures are warmer.

@Meili I don’t mean to sound condescending, but you’re still talking about weather. We can’t see climate change as it’s happening because it is based on statistical data, not a recollection of how things used to be. A person day-to-day wouldn’t have any changes in life because the temperature has risen an average of 2° in the past hundred years, which is why so many people refuse to acknowledge that it’s a real problem - If it doesn’t affect me, doesn’t matter. Funny how the majority of the world is so easy to have faith in religion, because that is an idea that has the premise of benefiting them in the long run.

@Jenelle Okay, I get what you're saying.

Here's where I'm coming from. I don't believe it's any more reliable to take the word of scientists performing experiments I can't duplicate personally than it is to believe spiritual leaders having spiritual experiences I can't experience myself. So for me, I'm going to want to look out my window and see if I can detect a change in the climate myself. That doesn't mean I throw out everything I can't personally verify but I also don't just accept it unquestionably.

@Meili I get that, to some extent ... but as a science teacher, I look to primary sources and reliable data to educate myself — I’ll never see an atom, or the surface of another planet, but I do believe in them. ? You’ll never look out the window and see climate.

@Jenelle Fair enough!

2

You have such a simplistic view on this...a few degrees of warming kills many things that are sensitive to heat...food production is adversely affected by the rise of temperatures because of the ensuing drought and reduction of water available...

What people who are not informed don't understand is the chain reaction that warming causes and the interconnectivity of so many things...they only see what is directly in front of them and apply this way of thinking to what is way simpler and therefore, easier to dissuade them from believing there is an issue. They also talk about WEATHER which is not the same...heating a home is weather related, not a permanent warming of the air, oceans, etc.

Our oceans are the first to be affected, with much of the food source that is virtually invisible dying off in heated water...that food source is necessary for large food animals, fish, whales, etc. As food for birds and other animals die off, the entire eco system then begins to degrade...insects die off that are needed to continue the decay cycle and pollinate our food source...on and on and on...

Just do a bit of googling to see how all everything is tied in together...2 degrees...doesn't seem to be much but a few countries are already there and experiencing the negative effects...when do we want to act in our country? When trees start dying and leaving our land barren? When fields in our food production areas dry up from lack of water? When predators from the ice caps invade civilized areas because they have nowhere else to go? What is the trigger? You could selfishly state as many do that they will be dead before all of this...some legacy for the children of the future...

[vox.com]

Thanks your lengthy reply.

I'm not as simplistic in my thinking as you might think. I do recognize that global warming will create significant changes. I don't believe we can say for sure what those changes will be exactly until they actually happen. To predict certain disaster is foolish, I think, and I have a great deal of human history to back me up on that. Inevitably, positive changes occur as well as the negative ones and people and animals adapt to their new circumstances. That's just how it's always been.

One important fact that I believe is being left out is that the earth has been far warmer in the past but all the variety of species we see now still managed to evolve from that. It's not selfishness as much as simply being realistic to state that I expect the climate to change eventually and at some point humans will face mass extinction. Anyone who accepts evolution has to accept that reality as well. Maybe the result will be an even more highly evolved species who is kinder to each other and doesn't take their planet for granted....

@Meili I apologize if I misread your post...in no way did I think you yourself were simple minded in your post. My assessment is that you are perhaps more of a nihilist instead...seeing that the outcome is inevitable and warranted and going to happen with or without man's intervention.

Perhaps it is self-preservation and optimism for the human species that drives many of us to want to do what we can now...it might be fruitless and foolish, but to not do anything is unacceptable...trying is what we do...I get it, though...it often feels like we should let the world extinguish itself in hopes of a more evolved species, but our egos won't accept that...

I would rather die knowing an attempt was made using the science and knowledge we have now and letting future generations decide if it was worthwhile or not...perhaps it is more of an issue of life outlook than anything else. Thanks for your post and insightful reply.

@thinktwice No need to apologize. Honestly, my first reply was rather stubborn and redundant but sometimes I need to make blatant mistakes before I wake up to my own stupidity.

I'm realizing that at the same time I've stubbornly refused to accept the climate change doomsayer's narrative, I've also been incredibly concerned over the human tendency to pollute our world without regard to the inevitable consequences. If I could do something to change that, I would.

I have been nihilistic in that I don't feel there is much I can do myself to make positive changes. I do recognize that I can make personal changes and maybe clean up my corner of the world a little but it seems so insignificant compared to the huge amounts of pollution that is still occurring that I have pretty much no ability to change no matter what. That leaves me feeling frustrated, and frankly, wanting to just put my head in the sand and forget all about it.

I realize I need to stop focusing on the elements in the climate change narrative that I don't accept and focus on what I do agree with, which is finding ways to function without producing so much harmful waste. Like you, I would rather try to make a difference, even if it results in failure, rather than to do nothing at all.

Thanks.

@Meili You are at least running narrative in your own mind....I am very conservative and cautious in making my decisions and do a lot of research before having an opinion...as a person in the older generation, it has been pointed out to me that the luxury of time is no longer on the side of a "wait and see" head set. I don't give in to mass hysteria but urgency and the importance of doing something while we still can has driven me into the camp of those who know more than I do about the issue.

Yes, we all can do our small share...educate ourselves, reduce waste and our carbon footprints...even if the entire thing is a "hoax", what can it hurt? The alternative is bad enough and the current changes are good now...I don't understand why it is becoming such a divisive subject.

@thinktwice Very good points.

1

Who benefits the most from preventing action against climate change? For example, electric cars and trucks, e.g., Tesla, put less CO2 into the air than gas and diesel vehicles. The biggest corporations pump and sell oil, and the automotive industry is huge. The world burns a cubic mile of oil a year. Add coal and the power generation and distribution industries, and you get climate change.

Switching to green energy and electric vehicles will destroy the oil gas and coal industries. Tesla has already forced the automotive industry to start the switch to making EVs, but IMO most auto manufacturers will suffer, and some will fail. Electric vehicles need little maintenance and no oil changes; dealerships make money on service, and little on sales. Auto dealerships will suffer and perhaps vanish.

All of these industries are opposed to the green revolution. With trillions of dollars at stake, they have been fighting for survival, and they fight dirty. They attack scientists and political activists. They publish articles to confuse people.

Yes, climate change is real. It threatens human existence. People are already dying from climate change, the frail from heat and others from extreme weather.

1

There is no need to convince you or anybody else. Just think about the options as a bet. If you believe that there is no climate catastrophe heading our way and there is no 6th extinction under way and support the people betting on that, what happens if you wrong? Betting it isn’t happening and thus doing nothing about it, only to find out when it is too late that you were wrong has a huge downside.
But betting that the climate science is correct — and the odds appear to be that it is — and taking meaningful steps to keep us from going over the tipping point, has no downside even if we are wrong.
For a wholistic discussion or view of it look at Donut Economics by Kate Raworth.

1

Just wondering do you have any evidence that contradicts the science? Then that could be incorporated into the hypothesis to include a fuller picture. The research may have missed something.

1

All you need to do is watch a few science shows on the subject or read some books on the subject. Do so with an open mind and a sense of humility.

1

damn, now there are climate change deniers at NASA:

i posted this before. it didn't register or matter then to the truly committed global warming disciples. they are as truly committed as any religious fanatics that ever lived.

NASA says that CO2 is a coolant not a warming gas. One part of NASA is now in conflict with its climatologists after new NASA measurements prove that carbon dioxide acts as a coolant in Earth’s atmosphere. NASA’s Langley Research Center has collated data proving that “greenhouse gases” actually block up to 95 percent of harmful solar rays from reaching our planet, thus reducing the heating impact of the sun. Carbon dioxide (CO2) and nitric oxide (NO) are two substances playing a key role in the energy balance of air above our planet’s surface tending to cool not heat.

World temperatures have been generally declining for about 10 years while CO2 is rising rapidly,” writes famous weatherman Piers Corybyn, who is an astrophysicist.

[coldclimatechange.com]

Now source something from a site that doesn't show it's bias in it's name. There is no dispute between climate scientists except on details as theories are expanded upon and evolved. You will always have the tiny minority, that for whatever reason (often slush money) who will take an opposing view, and by tiny I mean under 2% So, to say there is any question of it being real, manmade and dangerous to our whole planets future, is like arguing the earth is flat

@Savage
NASA Sees Climate Cooling Trend Thanks to Low Sun Activity

[thenewamerican.com]

@callmedubious The sun has a 21 year cycle of sunspot actively and, yes it does cause variations in sun rays hitting Earth. It affects both overall temp and can cause distortions in weather. Remember Katrina, it followed a massive earth directed flare. The awareness group I was running at the time put out posts online, 36 hours before, warning of extremes in weather. But none of this negates the case for man made global warming/climate change. This is a very complex planet and without fully exploring it's details, understanding it's processes is difficult. Those looking for a simple/soundbite answer should leave it to others.
I'm afraid we live in an age now where any loony, corporate interest, religious nuts you name it can set up a site, putting out what they want people to believe, for whatever reason. And the people who will look up a site called coldclimatechange are wanting to believe it's not real.

@TheAstroChuck ,
if they don't agree with you they're crackpot souces.
remember i said at the outset of my 1st post on the subject that i was not a denier or a believer. i try to look at both sides. but i sure as hell will never completely trust any figures or data that govts have any control over. especially if there is the possibility of empire building & more revenues from taxes involved.

@TheAstroChuck ,
OK, i give up.
you're pure & i'm a cynical, disbeliever.
you win.

1

Them earth has been going through climate change and polarity shift for as long as it has existed. When it was first formed, they best central air unit wouldn't have survived 2 seconds. Polar shift is right there alongside. Ask a scientist. I did, and he took me underground to show me how they can tell what has happened in them past, showing definite cycles.

He just didn't tell me how to defend against autocorrect!!!

I'm pretty sure autocorrect will destroy the world . . .

@Holysocks -- The defense against autocorrection is to pay attention and edit as you go. It's quite simple.

1

Tell you what. The easiest evidence to gather is that which you get for yourself.
Go buy a house on the coast. East or west, doesn't matter.
North or south, that doesn't matter either.
Buy a house that sits on the beach, or the Intracoastal Waterway (on the east coast). Buy a house on one of the barrier islands in Washington state, or Alaska.

Buy a house at sea level, near the ocean, anywhere.

See how long you get to live in that house.
Do your own research.

You're not likely to be convinced by anyone, despite whatever "evidence" they could present you.
However, I think you'll believe in climate change and rising sea levels, when you're up to your ass in sea water, while standing in your living room.

I'm satisfied with watching that on TV. Haven't seen it yet.

@Meili You make absolutely no sense at all.

1

The main road through our village 70 years ago is now underwater, even at low tide.

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