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Is there any way that religion can be proved to be man made?

dinoid 5 Apr 18
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55 comments

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0

Not to a believer because they operate by faith not facts. Religion proves itself to be man made because no god ever invented operated above the level of a spoiled 8 year old psychotic...

1

To the satisfaction of a fanatic? No.

To the satisfaction of a reasonable, reasoning person? Yes. I think that's how most of us ended up here.

Well said.

0

The protozoan is quoted by science to have no evolutionary history, but of course it must have. To explain my findings in full would take some explaining, so let me try it this way. The primates have an evolutionary history and part of this history is all life cannot seeing accurately. It's not seeing accurately that feeds our intelligence. An example of this is when we come against something that we cannot explain, we reach for the supernatural in a desperate attempt at clarification, but what we are actually doing is the opposite. All life is in the same boat. The male jewel beetle couldn't tell the difference between a female and a bottle because both were the same colour and pattern. The primates didn't carry on up the evolutionary ladder to our level because intelligence had been achieved; there was no need for them to reach our level, staying as they are is more beneficial to an intelligent species. This could only happen if all life is connected. Life started as one and is most likely to still be evolving as one. (One energy that is.) The jewel beetle is proof that life cannot see accurately and primates could just prove that we are all connected. The protozoan is part of that energy as is all the rest of life, which could explain the diversity..The protozoan is just fitting in with what that energy allows. The protozoan's evolutionary history is the history of a universal pattern. If all life reached the same level of intelligence, that would destroy purpose; the purpose that is paramount to our existence. Keep thinking of life as one energy and compare it to the energy pattern of a black hole. Black Holes happen when gravity becomes too much, it is determined by the size of the star. This is the same pattern designed by the laws of the universe to keep the balance that is paramount for the universe to exist. Let us ask ourselves if the same pattern applies to evolution? Does this mean that the same thing will happen to us? After all the same universal patterns apply. This overload would apply to life if all life reached the same level.of intelligence; we would implode. (Extinction.) We are made of star dust, we are part of the universe and we have to conform.

0

It depends on the religion.

I consider Scientology a religion (and a very toxic one at that). It was created by L. Ron Hubbard.

Buddhism was created by Buddha.

Those two, and quite a few others, including Pastafarianism and Mormonism, are easily proven to be man made.

It gets more difficult to "prove" the origins of other religions because they have been lost over time. We can make arguments based on logic and circumstantial evidence, but true believers can argue that is not proof.

0

All religion is man made. There are definite historic acts leading to formation of any club.

0

I don't see any way to prove it was man made, even if I believe it was.

0

Many philosophers have pontificated that very question... Descartes, and Hume and fucking Plato, et. al...have asked themselves, "Is it logical to believe in a Supreme Being?"...

One of Descartes reasoning is... accepting his being as imperfect..yet, his imperfect mind can imagine a perfect Being, aka God, ..one attribute of perfection, would include existence...nonexistence, to a fault, is less than perfection.

...nothing to do with jesus, mind you...

0

To start with Mary wasn't a virgin.yes she had a child named him Jesus.he never died on the cross.so he never rose from dead.get the big picture.its all not true.

The post questions religion, and your response is about jesus.... look inside yourself and find the big picture. ... why are you here, really?

@frisbee212isn't religion all backed by jesus??

@frisbee212 We are here because our parents joined and our mother gave us birth. Our reason for living is up to each individual person.

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0

@genessa and Happy_Killpot are at conflict to sort this out. My next question is going to be about the protozoan and others. Science says it has no recognizable evolutionary history, but we all know it does. How it fits with evolution will perhaps answer both of your points of view.

do you mean they never evolved into anything or that nothing evolved into them? the former certainly isn't true, nor does science (which isn't a voice, but an area of study) say it is. i don't know anyone who says they magically appeared out of nowhere either. so i don't understand what you mean. can you specify? meanwhile, [britannica.com]

g

HOw do we all know that protozoan have a evolutionary history? I think will take the science over your idea.

1

Whether or not there are any gods, and I believe there are not, religion itself is a social construct. If there were gods, they would continue to exist even if no one worshiped them, just as people worship even though there are no gods. Religions have more or less evolved over the millennia to fit the needs of their societies, so without knowing exactly when and where the first religion started, it would be impossible to prove the origin of religion, just as it is impossible to "prove" the nonexistence of gods or other unlikely beings.

1

Yes. Just read the Bible.

There's to many lies

@Gbgood there are too many...

0

We will all die not knowing for sure, but objective scientific facts are as close as we can get to absolute truth.

0

As opposed to naturally occurring? It can't be anything but man made, there's too many to choose from.

1

YES. Just look at all the different beliefs and doctrines all coming from just as many scriptures. Either religion is man made or gods (if any) do not want to communicate with us.

1

Looking at the replies, i've had many a giggle and some inspiring answers. Thank you all for that.

I am now wondering what kind of feedback I would get if I asked how the design in nature came about?

that i really can not say for sure. what i can say for sure is that god was not, because he does not exist 😛

Justify that there is in fact design in nature. What do you mean how the design in nature came about? It's not design. You're begging the question.

0

The religious impulse is deeply embedded in the human psyche and is the source of all human creativity, science, art, etc. Individual religions were concocted by people for various reasons, some more benevolent than others, but those religions could not have been created without innate human religiosity. For evidence look at the widespread proliferation of religion throughout history.

Proofs are not absolute things. Each person has to look at the evidence and form her own opinion.

Anything made by humans is man-made but mankind itself is a product of nature or whatever you want to call it—higher power, etc.

@icolan The reason I call it the religious impulse is because of that inexplicable spark of conscious awareness that fosters a sense of deep awe and wonder in the face of the overwhelming mysteries of reality. From that spark comes thrilling vision, and there arises the utmost motivation to live well, to invent, to create.

If, because of negative associations you dislike the religion word it is perfectly ok with me to call it something else. However, for me, calling it the creative impulse doesn’t tell the whole story.

The religious impulse is deeply embedded in the human psyche and is the source of all human creativity, science, art, etc.................................. That's has no basis in any truth. A religious belief has nothing to do with science, art or creativity. Many an atheist was a great artist, a great inventor, or created new technologies.

@grammy A religious belief is nothing but an opinion and has little or nothing to do with anything. I’m not talking about religious belief. I’m talking about our primal spark of awareness which brought to humanity a sense of reverence and awe for existence. It is religion in its purest form.

1

wrong question. should be "Is there proof of a god-made religion?"

There are no wrong questions

0

Proof is tricky, but I think it can be illustrated to be manmade in at least some cases. For example, we can see from pre-Hebrew societies that the Israelites adopted the god Yahweh from early Sumarian and Canaanite traditions. Yahweh, being a warrior god, held special significance to the wandering, warring Hebrew people of the time. The most interesting thing to me regarding this adoption is that there was a major shift in how the Hebrews turned a god into a travel companion, as before this time gods were considered to be tied to a particular region. The wandering Hebrews carried their god with them. Anyway, getting back to the synthetic nature of religion, early Jewish writings are clear that they believe in a pantheon of gods (e.g., the gods of Canaan and Sumaria), and this is what we see with the reference to "El" as a single god but "elohim" is often used to suggest a plurality of gods (though, as I understand it, not exclusively used as a plural noun). Also, Yahweh wasn't initially considered all-loving or all-good, and Satan wasn't especially evil (more of an advisor, it seems), but we see over time, as the religion itself evolved, that the positive traits remained with Yahweh while the evil is transferred to Satan. Death is the end, too, until the New Testament when Heaven and Hell become the eternal reward and punishment for humanity. The physical burning pit of Sheol where the bodies of the dead were disposed became the ethereal torture of Hell with Satan actively corrupting humanity and presiding over eternal damnation. (Step 1: Tempt humanity. Step 2: ??? Step 3: Profit.) And, even in the Gospels of Mark, Matthew, Luke, and John, we see a very sharp evolution in theology, with Mark being quite simple compared to the theology of John. Then, of course, there's Paul of Tarsus. I think Paul illustrates the manmade nature of Christianity quite clearly. Without Paul, Christianity wouldn't exist. He was an effective marketing agent, but the religion itself was a means to an end. Paul was an activist. He was politically motivated. He exercised influence (yes, even before social media there were influencers). He was looking to effect change socially and politically, and religion gave him the means to reach people, to convince people to live in specific ways. And it's Paul's words that many Christians today focus on, rather than Jesus. To justify war, for example, despite Jesus being so clearly depicted as a pacifist, Paul promotes the right to self defense. There are actually many topics on which Paul contradicts Jesus, e.g., Jesus says he comes not to abolish the law but to fulfill it while Paul claims that the law of Moses ended with Jesus.

And all this above (sorry for the wall of text) is a tiny drop in just one religion (or, set of religions, in the Abrahamic tradition) — and, if we want to get down to it, the fact that there are so many denominations of Christianity is pretty powerful evidence that humanity is the author of that particular religion — but I'm sure honest inquiry into all of the well-established religions of the world with a rich history spanning millennia would reveal similar patterns. I'm not a historian, though, and I don't study world religions in any great depth. But, with all of that said, no matter how significant the evidence might be that religion is the child of humans and not representative of anything divine, the devout will reject such notions and fall back to faith-based belief. I don't think it ultimately matters whether there's proof of human invention in religion, though; the fact that there's no evidence to support religion's myriad claims is more important to me. While it may be interesting to see how religion has evolved and bent to the whims of the powerful throughout history, it's not an argument against religion's claims. Illustrating the logical flaws in theistic arguments is much more valuable in my opinion.

Thanks for your reply, I couldn't be a religious historian either, for the very fact it would be like reading 'Mid Summers Night's Dream' only worse, because religion is assumed to be true and nothing could be further from the truth. (Embarrassing) When I look at all the thousands of religions in the world, I recognize them for what they are. If you throw into the mix the atheists and agnostics, what you get is the variants of intelligence that an intelligent species needs to survive; this correlation gives purpose, because purpose is the food of intelligence. If we were all on the same level, there would be no intelligent species. Though the religious won't like this, it is something they will have to face in the future as our knowledge grows. The fact is, the variety of religions along with every other field of intelligent design is down to the laws of nature, it dictates the pattern. We are all, including religion, subjected to the laws that drives evolution. Yes even religion is the result of evolution. When religious people come up against something that they can't explain; in a desperate attempt at clarification they call it supernatural, but instead of clarifying they are doing the opposite. Imagine a world ruled by one religion with its opposed view of reality; it would destroy purpose, our species would soon be on the decline and on its way to extinction. This is why religion will eventually have to go; it's defeating its own purpose. It is going against everything that nature is telling us.

7

@dinoid - you simply asked the wrong question... It is not up to the non-believers to prove that religion is man made ...it IS up to the believers to prove that it is NOT !

Hello Frosty, you are right of course, but it is something that they will not do, so it is up to us.
Read my answer with 'resserts' level 8

@dinoid - You are not going to convince a believer ...so why bother?

1

is there any way to prove it isn't? of course it is man-made. each one is curiously favorable to the group that has created it. there is no religion that says "the other guys is better; you're not as good; god doesn't love you as much as those other guys." not a single one. why is that? if religion is not made by man but rather created by some deity, why would that deity make so many conflicting ones, and why would s/he tell every group it is the best and everyone else sucks? (well, ALMOST every other group, anyway.) you may as well ask if we can prove santa claus is not real.

g

3

I think you just did...... just by posing that question and not getting killed instantly by lightning kind of proves that religion is man made. 🙂

There's still time. I'd better say my prayers.

@dinoid I was gonna say... report back dude !!!!!!!

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Look at its history.

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Even most deists could agree with you that religion is socially constructed by humans. Also, you may want to read Peter Berger’s The Sacred Canopy to help you make your argument.

That looks like an interesting book. I'm not familiar with Bergers work, but I'm going to have to look into it now. Just Googled it briefly. Reminds me somewhat of Robert Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.

1

Preponderance of evidence. It's not proof, per se, but it sure is compelling.

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