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QUESTION There is no use arguing with people who deny simple, verifiable facts | Miami Herald

Boggles the mind

HippieChick58 9 Mar 11
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0

Level 7

I didn't think of it, but the article is correct when it said this:

"...The issue is not ideology. Rather, it is America’s vanishing ability — and willingness — to reason..."

It's shocking what Ussery said to the pastor! I'm sure he said it out of spite - rather than simply believing that the pastor's daughter's life was a conspiracy set up just to fool Ussery.

1

Level 7

Yah. I learned this lesson on here. I thought all those who join a site for agnostics would all have open minds that allow them to accept new data, including the understanding of logical fallacies. But, unfortunately, no.

Some agnostics on here do not extend their critical thinking outside the topic of religion. Eg they may not believe in god but believe that single parent homes is a form of child abuse.

@jorj I find the simplification of the claim that "single parent home is a form of child abuse" as problematic.

If your belief is correct, how did the U.S. maintain the heady lifestyles of 80s and 90s when only 50% of children of the 60s were living in the "traditional" (mother, father, 2.5 kids) family lifestyle?

[pewresearch.org]

If you consider the decline of the U.S. has already started and only recently, would you equate the reason for it with the decline of single parent homes? Because by the 80s, there was a decline of single parent homes from 50% in 1960 to only 26%.

This is the simplistic view of your claim. Of course, this can't be true, right? Which then kind-of proves that you can't/shouldn't maintain simplistic views.

@jorj Just let me add, if you don't find the U.S. is in decline, then you're all set. You shouldn't have anything to worry about. With the decline of single parent homes since the 80s, the U.S. must have a bright future ahead of itself.

@jorj if your stats back up your claim, I stand corrected.

But, just to clarify, my assessments that the non-nuclear family structure of the 60s caused the high lifestyles of the 80s and 90s is NOT ACTUALLY TRUE. I was making an example of the logical fallacy of attributing one event to another.

Like I said at the end of my current reply, "this can't be true, right?". This suggests that I don't believe in the assessments I gave. I was making a point that attributing a data point to an event without a deeper understanding of the event leads to false conclusions.

Which again, you agreed with! Like when you agreed with me with the ridiculousness of "ban all cars because they are dangerous, too."

You just said that your data "shatters" my theory. Which it should, because my theory is crap. I pulled it out of thin air. How could I possibly attribute the high life of the 80s and 90s with the family structure of 60s without a deeper understanding of both.

You attributing child abuse with single parent homes as a cover-all blanket statement can't be anything but false. Because, you know, some kids go through single parent homes without abuse.

@jorj Yeah, but we're not talking about "needles" and "haystacks", right? We're talking about people. Regardless, only one data or event that proves a claim false, makes that claim false - unless you quantify that claim with "some" or "not all".
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Level 7

It does boggle the mind. I quit Facebook over god/trump etc posts from my classmates and kin down in Louisiana (not that Nebraska is much better, but I didn’t grow up with these sorts of folks in Nebraska!). They are ever so certain in their ignorance and blind to anything else; and will believe the most wacko conspiracy theory as long as it bends to their warped view of reality. Ugh.

I think many of these folks equate critical thinking with simply being a critic and it drives me batty. For now I am taking a break with arguing with them.

Ohub Level 7 Mar 11, 2018
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2

Level 8

As depressing as this is, thank you for the posting.

2

Level 8

True, and I already knew it, but find myself trying more often than I should.

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Level 9

I just read this story Leonard Pitts wrote today. Maybe these people should take a test before being allowed to vote. I strongly believe voters rights should not be unlimited.

BTW, you left of the people who thing the moon landing was staged.

The problem with voting limits is that it leaves a crack the snakes can use to cheat. I'd rather innocent idiots vote than crooks control.

@jorj I have some questions on that. How can Democrats support the working class (blue collar) when those jobs become a problem. We have coal miners, tobacco workers, workers for the gun industry and on and on. Many Democrats support job retraining programs but the workers don't want to be retrained. They just want things to stay where they are.

Last year we had a rally about a local refinery wanting to increase their production. They wanted to enlarge the local port and build a new rail line. This was extremely harmful to our natural environment and would create problems for the local communities. One guy got up and said he had 6 kids. His job was a good job and he wanted the proposals to go forward so that his kids would have a chance of a decent livelihood! Things are very complex and, unfortunately, too many Republicans offer easy answers.

@EdEarl Innocent idiots got in tRump. I worked the voting polls for 5 years. I saw so many problems that I sort of lost faith in the system as it now stands.
1

Level 7

Look for the places you agree. Bind your relationship. Friendship wins it all.

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Level 9

True. the only options are either to (1) shout them down, or (2) declare that you refuse to aregue with a fool who is lying to himself and others.

3

Level 8

The people, like the couple described in the article, who go with these non-sensical, non-factual conspiracy fabrications, are spawned and nurtured by the likes of Alex Jones (Infowars), and Rusted Limpballs (Rush Limbaugh), emotion-evoking, mumbo jumbo speaking, radical-right- espousing "entertainers" whom I suspect feel some sort of power by being able to greatly influence the weak minded, dimwitted rabble that haven't the capacity to think rationally and/or are desperately seeking someone on whom to toss the blame for their miserable, hapless, and meaningless existences. They turn to such foolishness to assuage their bitterness at being colossal failures in life, and to find some sort of community of support, no matter how ludicrous or disingenuous it may be.

Arguing with them is simply an exercise in futility, and frustration. Their lives are not ruled by reason. I don't know what the answer is in dealing with them (I know one quite well), and I, personally, don't wish to give them any of my precious little time left on this rock.

@atheist sorry, sometimes I just can't help myself, and I get the absurd notion that I have something worthwhile to say. I'm usually wrong on that.
3

Level 8

There are some people who have their heads buried so deeply up their asses that no amount of pulling can extract them.

I like to say they buy a ticket to Egypt so they can bury their heads in de nial.
2

Level 8

True, there is no way to reverse the sewage flow in their mind. It is truly amazing that they refuse to accept real numbers and facts. It is just an astounding event to even see such a thing. The illuminati conspiracy is once again surfacing and they all believe it remains the clintons that are taking over the nation

EMC2 Level 8 Mar 11, 2018
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I fully agree. I wish there were some way to confront these people on national television and yet they would continue to be stupid as this is cool to act. Just look people in the eye and say you support alternative facts. How dumb is this
3

Level 9

There comes a point when stupidity crosses into mental illness.
We have parameters for the criminally insane.
We should have parameters for the criminally stupid.

3

Level 8

Imagine having family members who are exactly like those people. I have a few in mine. There is no way to reason with them. I refuse to discuss anything other than family issues with them. They refuse to think for themselves or lost the ability to do so somehow.

3

Level 8

TRUE However they do not use the same logic or reason when they relate to religion! There you must have faith which cannot be proved! No free will.

4

Level 6

Part of the problem is equivocation. For example 99% of scientists say the sky is blue and 1% say it is not. It gets reported as "Not all scientists aggree" and someone takes that as if it is still undecided and runs with it. Then again some people are just facts averse.

And the tumpies think that means the majority
2

Level 8

Evil....

4

Level 9

You shouldn't waste time and energy arguing with morons.

Occasionally I will make one or two attempts at talking to ones that don't appear to be too far gone,... but usually it is a waste of time in the end anyway. So in principle - I agree with your point.

2

Level 7

.... I honestly don't know how to respond to this. It's just too ludicrous.

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