That is a pretty fatalistic way of looking at things. I agree with the first part of your premise, these things of which we were unable to control in our genetic make-up and those we came in contact with in our early formative years, we obviously had no control of. I do not agree however in your second statement....the conclusion you make that we are but puppets of forces outwith our control. If we were not cognisant of these forces I would agree with you, and I’m sure it could apply to many who are not aware, but the fact that we are discussing it here shows awareness. With that knowledge we are therefore armed to take charge of our own decision making (admittedly within societal and personal constraints), otherwise we can blame all our bad choices on fate, which would not be very different from saying god controls everything and we are but his creatures.

Just like the whole nature vs nurture argument, I don't see it as free will OR determinism.. but a mix between the two. People who restrict themselves to one side or the other keep themselves blind to the other half.

I agree that what life throws at us is not always our choice. However, we are free to deal with it as we see fit. When something bad happens, we can either sit and mope, or we can laugh it off. That is our choice. We are free to shape our own attitudes. Concentrate on the good things, and we will be happy. Concentrate on the bad things and we will be sad. We can be happy or not, no matter what life throws at us.

It's true that the role of dumb luck is under-acknowledged and our personal brilliance over-rated.

I was reflecting today that it was the dumb luck of going on an overnight stay in the woods while at summer camp when I was 12 that resulted in my chance encounter with a tick that caused me to contract Lyme Disease before it was widely known to be a "thing" and this changed the course of my life. I'd say that and meeting my first wife and the fact that my family of origin was Christian fundamentalist undid an awful lot of the good dumb luck I was born to.

On the other hand in some areas of my life I managed to make progress ... enough that I'm still vertical and reasonably sane in spite of the above-mentioned vicissitudes.

This is why I say we have constrained freedom of choice from a limited menu of practical options ... which is not the same thing as true free will.

As a stoic I control what I can and don't try to control what I can't. So I have SOME control; no sense worrying about the rest; it's out of my hands. That goes for big choices and small choices.

The jury is still out on if the universe is truly deterministic or not, but in order to keep society functioning we should assume that some actions are made by individuals.

I would say the average person gets about 10-15% of their life choices that they can call their own. A privileged few get 25% and those who work hard to overcome their own inherent biases and become who they want to be may get as much as 30% but that is only in very rare situations.

I have been thinking a lot about this lately and my conclusion is that the things in life that are the most important to me are things I have very little, if any control over and as you say I can order the double cheese pizza but I can do nothing about my daughter's cancer

Everything is from the past.... The, future is decided now, from your past experiences. You chose now in real time.... Nothing is predetermined....

IMHO, yes, we can't control or decide what we're born into, what influences us, or what happens during our lifetime -- however, we have a choice in how we want to respond, and THAT makes all the difference.

It seems to me that if you hold that there is no such thing as an uncaused event in the universe, then that also applies to every single, solitary thought, choice, and process that occurs in each and every person's brain, as well as everything else that happens. I believe the fact is that no human choice is an undetermined event.

I would say that generally, freedom, to me, consists in choosing, speaking, or acting free from any duress or intimidation or constraints. It is the freedom to move about, to go where I want to go, to be myself rather than to hide or disguise my true thoughts or feelings.

Fate and luck has a huge part in our lives. Choice are always there, however the price we have to pay for those choices limits us considerably.

If I understand him right, 18th century philosopher, Immanuel Kant, contended we do have free will but only when in the throes of moral temptation. That is, when we really feel it is our duty to do something that we really don’t want to do, then--and only then--do we have a free choice. And I am inclined to believe that we do have freedom in such circumstances. At least, whenever I feel I ought to do something that I don’t want to do, I can’t help but feel that I have both the ability to do it and also the ability to refrain, for “ought implies can.” But, so far as I can prove, there may be nothing that anyone ever ought (in the moral sense) to do; rather, it may just be that nature+nurture produces such phoney feelings us--as I think Matias proposes. However, I simply do not know how to believe that whenever I am feeling that I ought to do something!

I agree with you to a certain extent. Although we can take action to solve any problems that we face in our lives, we're always depending on external factors. We can only control our actions, that's all.

While the perennial determinism vs. agency debate is interesting, I tend to look at this question through a rather Rawlsian lens. That is:

Through the veil of ignorance, the improvements to the human experience over the time we've been here - especially during the last few hundred years - have been the result of humanity's efforts alone. No gods, angels or ETs were involved. Science? That's us. Philosophy? Same. Ethics? Yes again. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights? We humans did that as well. The massive decrease in percentage of the world population living in extreme poverty even while said population has grown exponentially? Also us.

So, are we in control of every circumstance? No. Are there still large gaps in our understanding of the world? Of course. Have we made mistakes? Yes, and we'll continue to as we learn. However, are we the dominant guiding force in how we live our lives and work towards tomorrow? Unless someone can point at some superhuman intelligence that has been doing all of this for us, i'm going to say hell yes.

What difference does your question make to me? Seriously -- I'm not joking.

As far as as I know no one has ever definitely answered the Determinism vs Free Will question -(else why do we keep bothering to ask it?).

So... you know what? I get to choose for myself. I choose Free Will. I can't tell if the consequences of my choices were predestined or not so I've decided to think that they're not.

You can choose for yourself.

The conflict comes of course when your actions affect me or vice versa. My personal preference is for interactions to be beneficial where ever possible and I work as much as I can to that end.
But the Free Will/Determinism question doesn't mean a lot until we come up with a way to tell the difference.

That is true if, and only if, people let it happen. I grew up in the ultra-religious, politically conservative (if not reactionary) and racist American deep south. My education and my experience of having spent almost 3 years in West Berlin overturned all of that. It gave me the knowledge that I do have choices and that I am responsible for those choices and their consequences.

Of all the opportunities presented along the journey, I know that I worked hard to take the ones I wanted to take. Some were not easy but the choice was all mine

Good post. I wish the powers that be would realize your point. There wouldn't be so much benefit to being nobly born, like Donald Jr. This is a another way Biblical thinking has fucked up humanity. We're sinners worthy of toil and suffering because of the sin of Adam and Eve. The sin or achievement of our parents should have nothing to do with how well we live. Every baby should have an equal chance.

No. We are each the witness.

Maybe our bodies are nothing but dumb robots with no true free will and no conscious awareness. That idea would fit with what Matias is saying here. Since robots have no self awareness, all their decisions are determined by programming. Even if they made a decision based on a random number generator that decision would not have been willfully made, although it might appear that way.

I am led to suspect that our true identities are not our bodies, and that collective intelligence, universal awareness, or whatever is active behind the scenes. “Behind the scenes” there is ultimate reality, the real McCoy—not just our illusory human perspective based on symbols.

There is no proof for the idea but IMO it is something well worth thinking about.

Even ordering the pizza with extra cheese is a condition of your past including DNA. I think there is more evidence or reasoning that we don't have free will than there is that we do have free will. Simply making a choice is not evidence or proof of free will, just like saying that we are here and the Earth is here and nature is here, so therefore God. You can't see the mechanism beneath that choice to be able to say you made it of your own free will.

Also factors like genetics and aptitude, income, the local society around you, what you're exposed to growing up, and many other things that all influence your life and limit/allow you to move in certain directions and determine what choices you have.

Some people can break out of the walls that restrain them but for many it's extremely hard or impossible.

Thinking back on my own life... it seems that where I am now is largely based on who I knew, misfortune, finances, genetics, and upbringing.

Ugh. We don't even have to get that deep. We are not, almost as much as serfs were not in feudal society.

The answer is, of course not, but that's besides the point.