That may or may not be true, but Biden is the only one that keeps trouncing Trump in every poll. The other top contenders are all toss ups. Biden would win the center and you can't win without the center. Warren is my favorite, but I don't care who the Dems nominate, they will get my vote. To say Biden is like Clinton is silly. No one is like anyone else at this level of politics. If you think Clinton would have been worse than Trump I do hope you are unable to vote at all.

@Sticks48 I do think Hillary would have been worse than Trump, but only in the sense that an obvious train wreck is better than a subtle one. Hillary and Biden are corporate sellouts and always have been. Last I heard, Warren and Sanders were both leading Biden in the polls and I hope that keeps happening. Essentially you got your wish about my vote. I couldn't bring myself to vote for Trump nor Billary, so I voted for Jill Stein. I'll vote for whoever I think the best candidate is, regardless the apparent odds.

@Normanbites if you really believe Trump is better than Clinton would have been, you are really not intelligent enough to interest me in conversation, so please do not respond to med and I won't respond to you, and whether you and I like it or not this country is all about MONEY. The next President and not the next ten Presidents can change that. Only Congress can fix those things and that doesn't appear to be a possibility in our lifetime.

@Sticks48 Hillary would have sold us out to Trump and you are dumb enough to have enjoyed it.

[billmoyers.com]

@Normanbites That is the dumbest fucking thing I have heard since Trump last said something I have heard. Amazing.

@Sticks48 Me too, til now!

@Normanbites I'm glad you agree with me.

@Sticks48 Yep, we agree, you spew some stupid sh!t!

@Normanbites At least I have have the balls to put my picture on here. You are not only not bright, you are a coward. Then again if I was that stupid I wouldn't show my face either.

@Sticks48 Well, at least you have the comfort of knowing you are not smarter than you look.

@Normanbites That would still be so much smarter than you. I can do this all day.

@Sticks48 And you probably will!

@Normanbites As long as you keep saying stupid shit I will. It is for the safety of the nation.

@Sticks48 Not if you keep voting for corporate sell outs.

@Normanbites Until congress passes a law prohibiting ex Senators and Congressmen from becoming lobbyists, passes legislation for term limits, pass laws to keep corporations from donating to campaigns, and revamps the tax code, because that is what 905 of lobbyists are trying to do is change the tax code, and they have slowly chipped away at it for the rich and corporations, nothing will change. There isn't one person running for President who can change any of this, and there never will be. This is up to the Congress. Unlike millions of stupid people in this country, the Congress will not vote against it's own best interests. Money not only rules this country, it rules the planet. I don't know how you go about changing that. So you vote for whomever won't drag us back to the dark ages like trump and his pack of assholes, and hope when our generation or a generation and a half dies some of these changes start happening, because that is how big changes happen.

@Sticks48 Or we could all just decide not to vote for corporate sellouts ... you know, like how the majority of folks won't vote for atheists. It's just a making up of the mind thing.

@Normanbites You think you are going to vote out the whole Congress, and you think the new bunch will be different? Don't be naive. It's the system. A lot of people go to Washington with high ideals, get there and find out it is a system they can't defeat. They fall in line or they go home. Who are all of these folks you think are going to change the system. Give me some names. It will take several hundred, so let me hear them.

@Sticks48 Warren, Sanders, Harris, .... There's three. Now come up with a few of your own. That IS how to change Congress, but I can't do it all. You have to get off your lazy but, stop voting for corporate sell outs and vote for the right people.

You change things just like you change your location, one step at a time.

@Normanbites I like those same folks, especially Warren. The Congress, especially the Senate will be much more difficult, especially to reach that 60 vote threshold needed for some votes. You are just echoing what I am saying, that it will take time to make these changes. The Dems need to focus on a couple of big things affecting most Americans, like health care, maybe college loan debt and the cost of a college education. Don't throw some much at the people that it scares them. Of course the political landscape could be very different after Trump leaves office. I don't see the Republican Party ever being what it was when we were younger. We may end up with a third party of centrist Democrats and Republicans. Who knows. I know this If Biden is the nominee I will vote for him without hesitation. The main thing is defeating trump. Four more years of trump would be very dangerous for this country, and our standing and influence in the world will continue to diminish. That would definitely be a very bad thing for our nation.

@Sticks48 And again, Biden and Hillary are part of the problem. They give good causes lip service while catering to the likes of Trump. The Koch brothers are fine examples of this. Their power and profits grew while both parties were in power. This week ended with the embarrassing spectacle of ICE raiding Koch chicken processing plants, arresting over 600 "illegal immigrants".

And so, what penalty with the Koch brothers pay even with strong laws against hiring illegal immigrants? My bet is nothing, the same a Democrat run government would have imposed. The Kochs are free to lure more illegals here, and probably calling ICE on them again just before the final paychecks are due.

I'm sure the Democrats would have ignored the situation altogether.

My hope is the more progressive camps would have treated the immigrants with respect while repatriating them as appropriate. And aggressively prosecuting the employers for violating the laws. But that is still unknown.

It is clear the pandering to the uberwealthy and corporations must stop. I don't think Biden or the Clintons will do that.

@Normanbites The Koch brothers don't own that plant. The Democrats would never have created this crisis. Clinton even warned us in the debates what trump would do about immigration and she was right. She warned us about the deplorables. She was right. To lump Biden and Clinton with trump is beyond ridiculous. If you don't like them that is fine. To let your dislike of them to accuse them of things with no basis is silly. The uber wealthy have always been in charge in America. None of those candidates we support will change that even a little bit. Congress will not let them. Clinton tried changing the healthcare system when she was the First Lady and got ridiculed.

@Sticks48 Yes, Koch industries has denied any relationship to the Koch Chicken processing plants. But color me unimpressed with the convoluted way the uberwealthy control and influence anything of any significant size. The owners are among the uberwealthy and social "elite" Koch or not.

[littlesis.org]

[npr.org]

As for Clinton's involvement with the uberwealthy etc, I will once again post what you previously ignored as evidenced by your ignorance.

[billmoyers.com]

So long as you insist the uberwealthy run things and that is the way it should and will always be, you will never be part of the solution.

@Normanbites I don't insist anything. Can you not fucking read. It has been that way throughout the recorded history of the fucking planet. Once you get above the tribal level and have cities, towns , and states, money and wealth rule. I may not like it, but you, Sanders, Warren, Harris are not going to change that ever! What I am is a realist. That doesn't mean society can not be made more equitable, but this will never change, and there is nothing in the history of humanity that even hints this is going to happen.

@Sticks48 Right ... and man doesn't have wings and was never meant to fly ... except ... oh yeah!

Like the Running of the Bulls, just because it is tradition and has always been done that way, doesn't mean it isn't incredibly stupid.

Stop supporting the sellouts!! It really is that simple!!

@Normanbites What is your plan to change the world. You can spout all the platitudes you want and they don't mean shit and they don't change shit. Give me your plan. So far all I have from you is trump is preferable to Clinton. That is way, way beyond stupid, like stupid squared.

@Sticks48 Good Morning, My Grouchy friend. I'm glad you are still on this side of the grass at least until elections.

I already told you my plan. One step at a time, One mind at a time. Stop supporting the sellouts. Stop selling out. Stop feeding the over lords. Tax the uberwealthy.

In fact, if you want a quick cure all, here's one: Pass a law making it hunting open season on the top 100 wealthiest. Now if that doesn't bring about income and wealth parity in short order, nothing will.

@Normanbites Of course you tax the wealthy. That is where the money is. Tax the corporations. If they keep their money overseas, tax them even more. Flat taxes, no deductions for anyone. Fareed Zakaria did an investigation and discovered 90% of all lobbyist are in Washington to change the tax code, and of course they have been very successful at chipping away at it for decades. Trump comes along and gives them more of a tax break which he benefited from in a big way.

@Sticks48 Agreed. And combined the Clintons and Obama had DECADES to undo some of this favoritism of the wealthy ..... what really happened with that?

@Normanbites Congress. Congress is almost always the problem. Name me one major piece of legislation that has passed through Congress in the last 30 years other than the ACA. Tax increases don't count. That is all on Congress. They need to pass a law if one side of the Congress passes a bill whether the House or the Senate. The other side of the Congress HAS to vote on it whether they no it will fail or not. We deserve to no how are representatives vote. We need to know what they really stand for. The way it is now, first it was Boehner and Ryan, and now it's McConnell. They will not change that rule because it helps them protect their seat by not having to vote at all. Even Sanders said on Rogan's show he knows if he is President he won't be able to get most of the things he wants.

@Sticks48 I think we have both lived long enough to see personality make a difference. Regan would make TV broadcasts to publicly "out" congressmen impeding something he wanted. Clinton did the same for things he cared about.

But never did I see either of them backing legislation to improve the citizen's power over the corporate elite.

It is always easy to say someone else prevented you from doing something you didn't really want to do anyway.

@Normanbites Being the first black President, Obama had to walk a precarious line, just like Jackie Robinson. He also had no Congress after the first midterms to work with. He knew that would happen if he got a health care bill passed. He went for that one big thing, and it was and is a big thing. More than one President of both parties wanted to and couldn't get close. McConnell stated his main job was to make Obama a one term President. He wouldn't come up with any kind of bill, even on things he wanted. It was stupid. Obama would have met and compromised, because that is how democracy is supposed to work and is in fact the only way it can work, especially in a nation so large and diverse as this one. Presidents can't and don't legislate, Congress does.

@Sticks48 So then Obama couldn't exert the same force of personality and persuasion that other presidents could because he was black? I'll just skip all the characterizations of such a remark and just go straight to "not buying it".

[scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net]

@Normanbites You see the racism that has come out of it. You think it is an accident. Shoe me anyone who has moved McConnell on anything. Boehner would have worked with Obama on some things, but he knew the Freedom Caucus would block him. If you think being the first black President did not put a lot of pressure on you are not thinking clearly about this. In his second election most white folks did not vote for him, male and female.If he had a major fuck up, it could have been a long time before a black candidate would have had a chance. Was he perfect, no. We have never had the perfect President and never will. What might be the perfect President for you and me may not be for our neighbor. Not everyone wants what we want, just as we don't want what conservatives want. Compromise has to happen or we will fail as a country. This is what we are seeing going on now. It has to change. This makes big changes slow to happen, going back to my point most big changes happen when a generation passes.

@Sticks48 If Obama thought his race was going to be a handicap as POTUS, he should not have run. I doubt he accepts that as an excuse and I certainly don't. In the situations you describe, he should have outed McConnell and anyone else for not doing their jobs for whatever reason, even if it was race.

Back to more important issues at hand .... sure compromise is part of the process, but if you START by offering a compromise position, you've lost before you started. One of the keys to winning in compromise is to act if you aren't going to make one. Any skilled politician knows this and any one running for POTUS is a skilled politician.

So, sorry!! Clinton and Obama do not get off the hook because "the mean old racists out compromised us." They should have rolled back some of the Wall Street and Financial Institution shenanigans and they DID NOT DO IT. Not only that, THEY DIDN'T EVEN TRY!!

@Normanbites I can't do this anymore. You are just incredibly naive or just don't understand how democracy works. He called out McConnell always. I have come the conclusion you are either a racist or just as ridiculous as the far right, my way on everything or nothing. I think you are an idiot, and you think I am, so I am through with this conversation. You totally ignore history. Goodbye Norman.

@Sticks48 To be fair, I have come to the conclusion you are a thoughtless follower. You might spend some time thinking about who you want to follow, but once you've done that, you turn off your powers of observation and critical thinking. You become a thoughtless follower of your chosen royalty no matter what decisions they make to your benefit or not.

You are an idiot of the worst kind. Please continue letting your brain sleep away.

@Normanbites HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! When and if you ever develop the ability to think and reason and not sound like some adolescent teenager running on emotion, you get back with me.

@Sticks48 If you had the ability to think and reason, you would not be a Billary follower, nor a Trump follower.

@Normanbites You are the one who preferred Trump over Clinton. I just didn't want Trump. Anyway tjhis is getting tedious. You must not have cable. ☺

@Sticks48 And clearly you lack the ability to read with comprehension. Here, try again, what I said was;

"Trump was preferable to Clinton only in the sense that an obvious train wreck is better than a subtle one."

Keep reading it until you understand I don't prefer either of them.

@Normanbites I'm going to block you. You are redundant and when I ask your plan for these great changes you really got nothin, and you won't let it go,

@Sticks48 And so now we see the truth about you.

Hysterical. You're in fine form today.

@bigpawbullets You see? Proven. Everyone laughs at me. I get far more laughs than Trump. The USA would be so busy laughing it would be shaking too much to build a sturdy wall and would have to pay Mexico to build it, instead!!

@Bobsuruncle So Hawaii isn't in the USA?

@Bobsuruncle His late father was from Kenya. Whilst studying in Hawaii, on a scholarship, his father took up with another student, an American woman, resulting in Barrack Obama, born in Hawaii and raised in the US. He did make visits to his father's side of the family, in Kenya, but remained a comitted American. He still is!!

@Bobsuruncle I've been waiting for something specific in this regard. The Philippines were a US territory until the late 80's. That means until then, all the citizens of the Philippines were US citizens. So what happens when some one born in the UP before the mid 80's runs for POTUS??? It should be a party!!!

@Normanbites @Bobsuruncle What a delightful observation? Imagine the consternation in Trumpland, the anxious scanning of the constitition, the backroom debates between supreme court judges, ..... I can't wait!!