Theists cannot give a credible explanation of how a god, complex enough to create all this complexity and order, came into being. They always result to "god has always existed." If they can think that, why is it so difficult to accept that energy, that is both creative and destructive, has always existed? There is no need to assign this energy self-awareness, will and volition--and this explanation is the simpler, and more probable, of the two (Occam's Razor).

Yet. Science might not have the answer yet. And magic will never be the answer, whatever that answer ends up being.

Neither can a book,written by bronze age peasants that didn't even know where the sun went after dark.

I'd say they don't know much about science. Granted some things are still unknown, but not knowing is no excuse for superstition or believing myths.

When I have the presence of mind to do so, I ask them to elaborate. Most of the time they don't have specifics, but my answer is generally that nothing akin to the universe exists in our experience, so determining what is or is not possible is difficult when there's so much left to learn about how the universe works. I'm perfectly find with "I don't know" as an answer, but I'm not okay with "it's magic" (i.e., "God did it" ) as a serious response.

If it can't now, it will as we make more & more discoveries... It's a straw man argument
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It is Religion that can't explain complexity, and so they ignore it and call it god. Science can explain a fair bit of the complexity in nature, and it is advancing all the time.

Oh yes they can, more so than any fanatical, delusional, bible thumper any day of the week. Scientific facts have been around a lot longer than religion in ways that we are not even aware of. They can answer anything thrown at them. There is so much going on out past our little brains we can't even begin to comprehend.

Actually, science can and has gone a long way toward explaining how the complexity and order in life has occurred through evolution.

This is just another attempt to assert the god of the gaps, "I don't know or I don't understand, therefore God". This god grows smaller with each scientific discovery.

All life is made of DNA, what's so complex about that? Why didn't religion tell us that?

Tell them to study in biology.

Of course it can, you just have to ask the right questions.

Here is a discussion about life by a bunch of very, very smart people.

Anyone who says that is ignorant of real science. It is the ONLY thing that can explain such complexity!

I do not believe in god but I am open to learning answers to the unknowns we still have. What orchestrates life could be on on those unknowns. Random does not bring about order.We see order in life.

I would respond that it is only through science that the complexity of life, or more precisely biology, psychology, sociology and anthropology, not to mention physics, astrophysics and chemistry, may be understood.

Religion's fall back position is faith. It is not falsifiable. Science is based on process and good science arrives at theories which are open to refutation, in fact science invites challenge religion imposes dogma!

Religion is not worth talking about---- and of course religion has held education back- any thinking person knows that. As far as the "complexity" of Nature, that is not known- and that is why I am an agnostic

Why a very, very, very complex structure as improbable as seems is impossible in a very, very, very long time of development? Evolution cheats. It has the luxury of dumping many, many unfit structures and keep only the one that fits the environment.

Science does a better job explaining the complexity and order of life every year. Be patient.

Well, it can to a degree, and it's called "evolution". Anyway, I much prefer the humility of science in that it acknowledges what it does not know, rather than the arrogance of religion that, apparently, has all the answers.

I have a canned response, and sadly, I have to use it a lot.

1. We observe clouds of amino acids floating in space.
2. when atoms and molecules plow into each other, they fall into minimim energy states according to known, fixed, rules.
3. When you put assorted chemicals into a vat and provide an energy source (light, heat, electricity, vibration) the brew will arrange itself for the maximum absorbtion and transmission of the provided energy. Every time.
4. When you put selected organic molecules together (including RNA, but completely outside the context of anything living) it starts evolving. Every time.
   4a. When formaldehyde breaks down, you get ribose, the backbone of RNA.
5. Crystals reproduce themselves.

While we may never know what specifically happened 3.8 GYA, these five facts are sufficient to allow for a naturalist cause for biogenesis. Don't hold your breath waiting for an anabaptist dispensationalist millenialist Protestant evengelical xian (i.e. fundamentalist) to agree with you.

p.s. I looked up Fundament in the dictionary a few years ago. Very accurate definition

I don't normally socialize with theists so have never had to answer this question but I would probably just say...science offers more proof than religion on how the world came to be. I am flabbergasted that there are huge groups of people who still believe the earth is flat.