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24 5

So this happened:

[usatoday.com]

Who here believes that animals are here for us to do as we wish with them, including killing to extinction? Are we the "judge, jury, and executioner" that gets to decide the fate of these creatures?
Or should we be fighting harder for conservation and the rights for them to live freely without the threat of harm or of taking their homes from them?

I'm not a vegetarian, nor do I think that wild animals should be encroaching on our current residential areas. I do however believe that they have an equal right to live freely and humanely on protected lands to continue their existence.
Anyone else have an opinion on this?

LizL 5 Mar 20

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24 comments

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8

They should have more rights. If someone leaves their livestock or pets outside unattended or unprotected, and a wild animal attacks, that animal is usually hunted and killed. Nobody says anything about the negligence of the human for leaving its animals out as bait and not being responsible for them. They find the wild animal to be evil when it's just trying to survive.

7

Humans are the ones encroaching on the habitats of animals.

5

There is good evidence that we are in the midst of a mass extinction. It's happened before, usually in response to natural events that cause a profound change in the environment. The rise of human civilization is the principal cause of the current environmental displacement. You see it in the encroachment upon and destruction of wild environments, the predominance of floral and faunal (not sure if those are words, but stick with me here) monoculture, the introduction of predatory species in foreign environments, the deliberate modification of natural climate cycles, and the proliferation of chemical and physical detritus in our oceans and atmosphere. So we are quite effectively doing what you suggest on a global scale. Fighting for conservation and eating salad instead of burgers are good, but really, the scale here is beyond any simple solution. Doesn't mean the loss of another species is any less tragic, but there is a greater tragedy happening all around us.

@TjallTjallOUTLK na we're like cockroaches only a virus will take us out

5

I take it a step further and think we should consider how we are encroaching on their lands.

3

we are encroaching and taking their habitat just heaving under the number of extra greedy humans. there not encroaching as much as being forced across our roads, fields etc. we build houses etc and cull them for getting too close ie alligators for instance and we allow animals that don't belong to devastate local wildlife ie cats, Kane toads, dogs, Burmese pythons, goats pigs, rabbits, rats, mice and on and on. no land belongs to anything but instead, we all belong to the land. we grow crops and animals literally to our taste and just rape the planet. it will come back to us eventually but a lot of other beautiful life will be gone too. we should as intelligent rulers of the nature on earth learn to live with it rather than slash, burn and concrete everything. we are a virus or a cancer and we know it or should. I mean vegan or not how much habitat gets destroyed killing millions of creatures, how much life dies under our tires, on our windscreens and in our fields for us? we are not useful at all to the planet. in fact far from it.

3

It is humans that are encroaching on animal's homes.
And yes - all things living have an equal right to their lives - and with the exception of animals that have been domesticated to live comfortably with us, they do not belong to us to do with as we please.

Humans as a single species, are systematically causing the decline and total extinction of all other species. We are consuming everything at an unsustainable rate ... It is WE who need to go next, and leave the earth in peace.

3

Residential areas are encroaching on THEIR territory, not the other way around.

3

Its an interesting topic given that pretty much 80% of global species are a result of human creation.

pretty much all domesticated animals and plants are human made and even wilderness is affected by our existance. the planes in the sky, plastic in sea, or the pollen from our fields 3000 miles away . Idont think we have the right and should protect moer and more wilderness area

> Iwas on facebook the other day and some refered to steralising their cat as "fixing them", and believed that street cats should be illigal. Humans such as that should be "fixed" , and made illigal. (Iasked about her stance wild birds but got no reply)

I'm all for wilderness and recognizing our impact beyond the obvious plus finding solutions for the problems we cause. I still maintain that our real hope lies in population control. I will say this: if we don't figure out a way to do it ourselves, humanely and sanely, Ma Nature will do it for us and it won't be pretty. And we'll probably take a few hundred other species with us. Ultimately, however, I must be a true humanist, because I believe that humanity is also an animal species and has obvious limitations when it comes to grappling with these things. Forgiveness and compassion play a role, if only to forgive yourself. We'll make ourselves into an endangered species soon enough. Doesn't mean I'm not angry with the deniers who choose to do nothing while waiting for Jesus.

3

Obviously most here think animals are here for our convenience and pleasure in killing them, fishing for them, wearing them, and eating them.

We are kind to our pets but think shooting animals during hunting season-when we don't need them for food-or fishing, is great entertainment, since those animals don't matter. Also factory animals don't matter, since people also eat hamburger, pork, etc.

The rain forests don't matter either, since locals clear them mostly to supply grazing land for cattle to send meat to US chain franchises, like McDonald's.

I disagree that most here don't think these things matter. As a humanist, i do concern myself with understanding that people who act or think differently from me are not necessarily bad people. Probably most people on this page do care about how we treat animals, even if they are also meat eaters. Rain forests, oceans, and other wild places also matter. Please don't assume the worst of your fellow travelers. Some people feel more equipped than others to adopt a pure lifestyle. Meanwhile the population just keeps on growing.

and all the water stays in the skies and nothing grows and the oceans acidify and everything dies. aren't we great ?

@Rangepainter I have already encountered meat eaters, hunters, and fishermen here who say clearly that fish don't feel pain, say that they don't care about animals rights..they just love to eat meat, junk food, etc. They actually mocked me, and laughed about my concerns. Thus proving that being atheist doesn't necessarily make you more compassionate or intelligent.

I am sorry for that and i know those people exist. Just so you know, my husband hunts. We only eat wild or locally farmed, free range meat. My husband doesn't talk about it alot but he has told me he thanks every animal for giving us food. And feels remorse. He used to be a vegetarian, but found himself connected with nature and a way of eating meat his conscience could live with. We recycle our plastic and try to use less of it to start with. I'm not saying he's a saint or that i am. I'm saying that we make a point to care for the earth and we do not take meat for granted. Omnivores and hunters can be ethical.

2

Survival of the fittest. Walk in to a lions den without a weapon and try to have a conversation about which species does and does not have the right to hunt and kill others. See how that goes for ya.

2

Good question. Need to state that I'm a strong animal lover. I think until animals can think, yes, man gets to control the planet. Man has been using animals for food since the dawn of time. Man has also been abusing the planet. Just as we can plant more plants, we can develop more animals to eat. We just need to be more responsible doing it, like we need to be more responsible doing everything. Preserving and fostering species should be paramount but then again, so should protecting humans from guns and we cant/ won't do that either. So I'm a yes for we get to control the planet and animals and of course we should do it better.

lerlo Level 8 Mar 20, 2018
1

I am an avid animal lover, both for domesticated animals and wildlife. I don't think animals are here for our entertainment. Each one has a distinct place in our ecosystem. I live in Tucson, AZ where we see a variety of wildlife right here in the city. Tucsonians and wildlife have learned to get along with each other for a long time. The other morning, while I was walking my dog, I stopped abruptly to let a pack of 6 coyotes pass by. They didn't even give me a glance. On my morning dog walks, I see rabbits and hawks practically every day. I also saw a bobcat several months ago, right across the street from me. Again, he didn't even give me a glance. People who live closer to the mountains that surround Tucson, frequently see mountain lions and sometimes bears. Yes, there are rattlesnakes here too, but it is against the law to kill one. If you see one, you are supposed to call 911 and a wildlife rescue team will take the animal out to a more remote place in the desert. I hate zoos and I think those animals confined in zoos ought to be sent to animal sanctuaries where they can live out their lives in a more realistic environment. Theme parks which allow people to "pet" marine life such as sting rays and dolphins should be banned. People who have such a strong urge to touch marine life should get in a boat and jump in the ocean! I am not a vegetarian. I am just a person who cares what happens on our planet.

1

I like the idea a lot. More conservation, and allow at least a lot of them to live without men systematically slaughtering them.

Now, mosquitoes. We can wipe them off the planet, far as I'm concerned. Whatever the consequenses of that is, I'll take my chances that it won't be as bad as it is with them existing on Earth.

Well, right there you just showed that you think humans are, indeed, the judge, jury, and executioner--when you decided that mosquitoes can be wiped out. 🙂

i think this needs an edit. . . . what do you mean without MEN systematically slaughtering them..... women do it to!

@DavidBailey True, I forgot "not all men."

1

As a meat eater, I think hunting is a moral way to connect with the reality that if you eat meat, an animal dies. I don't hunt for enjoyment, but I understand that for many, what drives enjoyment of hunting is a connection with nature. That said, I respect any vegan who puts their money where their mouth is and refuses to live in a way that will harm animals. I agree with the poster who said the problem is bigger than what we eat. The human population could be a much smaller

1

"Nuke 'em. Nuke 'em all."

"Shh, Mr. President. This isn't the venue for that. Come now, put away the iPhone. It's time for your nap."

hopefully he's standing in front of his microwave at the time !

1

Definitely. Against hunting which is big in New Hampshire - deer,bear, moose. Once had venison from my next door neighbor and it was awful and made me sick. Let our wildlife live I say. Used to see Moose in my driveway and deer all over but they are decreasing in numbers.

Whomever gave you the venison didn't handle it correctly. It's meat and tastes like meat if it's done right.

0

I'm not a vegetarian either, but I think animals should be treated with ethically. That being said I do not have an argument for why I still eat them. It's a hard problem because we have taken over most of the planet. I don't think it is anyway ethical kill or harm animals for fun.

0

If there is God, I feel that the Universe is the God. So, every thing in this Universe is created by God: Us (Humans), animals, vegetables, ... , are also God's creatures. I think we can take anything for our food and survival, but, everyone of us must be virtuous. For example, I do not like unnecessary killings, such as terrorists, trophy hunting/fishing, ... .

Isao Level 2 May 17, 2018
0

Disagree with trophy hunting or hunting unless it's a need. Obviosly our culture waste tons (literally) of food. Conflicting formats of "free market" caused multiple chain stores to compete, increasing the waste. Just think there is better models to follow to cause less harm and waste.

0

I respect all life forms. Just some more than others

0

We are judge, jury, and executioner whether we should be or not.
“We are as gods to beasts of the field. We order the time of their birth and the time of their death. Between times, we have a duty.”
― Terry Pratchett, The Wee Free Men
And we're failing it.

0

the problem is it's not the animals that are encroaching it's us, what do you think was on the land that you live on before houses were built, animal habitat is shrinking and animal extermination os increasing a frightening rate

0

On a similar topic, what about horse racing and rodeos? Using animals for amusement and gambling.

0

of course we can be all of the above. should we end this practice before we alter the water cycle permanently? probably

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