Cultural vandalism is despicable. However destroying the culture itself and killing off the intelligentsia in an entire country is even worse. This is exactly what happened in Russia, China, Vietnam, Cuba, etc. Whenever the socialists rule - culture dies. Is this our future in the US?

@zesty You are talking about Communism and Marxism., not Socialism.....a mistake many on the right in America make, sadly.

@Marionville Absolutely not. In communism there is no money and monetary exchange. Read Marx and Engels! There were no Communist countries in the history of humankind. It was Socialism!

@zesty Theory and practice are two entirely different animals. I have lived under socialist governments in the U.K...that is what the British Labour Party is...it’s Socialist..as have many other counties had socialist governments....in Europe, Scandinavia, Australia, New Zealand, etc. They do not kill off the intelligentsia or culture in any of these places, that is a ludicrous thing to suggest.

@Marionville If theory and practice are different than the theory is wrong! If I design the theoretical algorithm for automatic blood pressure control for a patient, write the code and it is not working - the theory is fucked. So am I, so is the patient.

In the UK the means of production are not government owned. Hence, there is no socialism. All over the world, in the UK, US, Scandinavia there are some clowns calling themselves socialist. They don't even know what does it mean.

And yes, political correctness kills the mind, the spirit, the real values.

@zesty I think you are being more than a little ridiculous to believe that you know better than others what socialism is, even going as far as calling people who call themselves socialists clowns because they don’t fit into your definition. Patronising and very, very wrong. However, on one point we are in total agreement ...political correctness is stifling to individuality.

@Marionville Please look up the definition of socialism in the works of Marx and Engels. It is not my definition.

@zesty - It is interesting that those European countries most often associated with socialism - Sweden, Norway, Denmark, etc. - regularly rank highest in terms of satisfaction and happiness among their citizenry compared to other nations. Also, none of these nations have lost their national identity or traditions.

Extinguishing cultural heritage is most often seen when a more technologically advance culture finds need for the real estate occupied by a less advanced culture. Native Americans are one example as european emigrants wanted land to settle and to expand. Amazonian natives are currently under threat for some of the same reasons as well as logging and mining. Africans also came under attack by Americans who found need for cheap labor to work plantations. These Africans not only lost their culture but their homeland, their families, and everything that was familiar to them. These less technologically advanced people have had their cultures threatened and sometimes destroyed because of a capitalist mentality - not a socialist one. Indeed, economic and political systems can do harm to culture, but they can also work within it. The real danger is in oversimplifying the issues and ignoring facts to reach a desired result.

@RussRAB We'll, correlation doesn't necessarily mean causation. Also, there is no socialism in Scandinavian countries, at all. There is a high level of social services. An absolutely different concept .

Who is a native? Just a question, how far one goes back in time!

The socialist mentality killed hundreds of millions in Russia, China and other countries. In these countries the human garbage gained power and the results are well known.

@zesty - The bit of research I have done online does mostly disagree with you. A New York Times articles begins by saying the form of socialism someone is talking about will often determine whether they favor it or not. Nearly all the sites I reviewed mention Scandinavian nations among socialist countries most often labling their form to be Democratic Socialism.

But this subject is not the topic of this thread. Why you want to turn it into your personal political crusade is beyond me. If you are actually interested in this topic - the vandalism of Aboriginal sacred items by Pentacostal Christians - then comment on this subject. Otherwise, start your own conversation with your own sources to back you up. I realize I don't the power to control how you respond or if you choose to continue your political proslytizing, except to block you. You wouldn't be the first.

To answer your question on this topic, a native Americans, native Amazonians, or native Australians for the purposes of this discussion have live in these areas for several thousand years. This would exclude the most recent immigrants to these areas from Europe. It is an arbitrary designation intended to identify those cultural groups which have been marginalized and some destroyed by a larger more technologically sophisicated cultures.

@zesty Do not patronise me, I am not some ignorant hick who needs educating. There are many types of socialism which work extremely well. They may not be the versions which you consider to be socialism, because the dictionaries which you consult are outdated...but the countries which practice Democratic Socialism call themselves Socialists and their citizens are extremely content with that form of government, and the terminology. You are an arrogant American who believes her own rhetoric and dogma which is very sad. You need to get out into the world and see other systems of government in action realise how much better they are than your US one, and how citizens in Scandinavian countries enjoy the best standard of living in the world..and rate their governments highly. The happiness factor is the best indicator of how a people rate their government, and Norway, Denmark and other Nordic countries generally head the international indices of happiness every year, followed closely by New Zealand. All these countries have a strong belief in social welfare and intervention by the state to ensure a good quality of life and health of all citizens. Their economies are very successful and are high wage economies, with high taxation which they pay knowing that they get a good system of public health and welfare, , education, & transportation in return. This makes them happy and healthy citizens...a model the USA should be envious of, I know I am. I have considered moving to Norway many times and may still do so.

@RussRAB Thank you...you are entirely correct to point out that this lady is way off thread, She has gone off on her favourite rant regarding Socialism, and not for the first time, I should know better than to respond by now!

@Marionville You call me an arrogant American? You deserve all the patronizing possible. Idiot!

@zesty Touché my dear!

Ho see con didli eye, honda la seeka.

@DenoPenno Hubh

Exactly my sentiments!

I reread the article and find words like "vandalized" being used to describe the destruction of these Aboriginal items. I also see quotes from "aboriginal leaders" decrying the destruction of these sacred objects. I don't believe it matters that the Christians destroying these objects are Aboriginal unless they personally own the objects being destroyed. American Christians became convinced that the Osmond's Mormon faith was demonic and they burned the records they had purchased. Whether or not I agree with their decision, it is their right to do what they will with their property - with the exception of certain classical or historical artworks such as the statues of Buddha in Afghanistan, and perhaps certain pieces of aboriginal sacred art that is not personal in nature.

I am not up on Australia current events or how Aboriginal people are currently considered in Australia. If it has any parallels with how Native Americans are still typically considered in the US, you are probably correct.

@RussRAB Unfortunately it is the same here, although it is changing but very slowly.

@Jolanta - The recent issue with the Dakota oil pipeline going across indian lands (or was it just their source of drinking water) is stark evidence of how native Americans are still disregarded and mistreated. Since they lost their battle against the pipeline, I believe I read that the pipes have leaked terribly and polluted the reservation's water.

I agree that it should be a crime to destroy cultural art. I don't really care the reason.

For burning their own religious items?

@WilliamFleming They didn't burn their items, they burned sacred items belonging to the Aboriginal people.
So yes, they should be shot.

@WilliamFleming They WERE persuaded by this Tongan 'Prophetess' that their Cultural Items were the work of the Devil and that they were "keeping them in the chains of slavery."
Originally, the Australian Aboriginal peoples were a very proud, noble and family orientated peoples UNTIL the Christian Missionaries were let loose with their bibles, blankets and bullshit then everything went arse up for the native peoples.
Aboriginal children WERE stolen away from their parents and families, placed in Missions and homes where they were made into SERVANTS and Drudges for the whites, taught that they were lesser people than everyone else, etc, and their culture/heritage, etc, was nothing short of evil and primitive.
Many of those children, now adults, still have little or NO idea of who they really are, where their parents are/ went, they truly ARE the lost peoples of Australia and they still are NOT accepted by either their own peoples or the White Europeans, etc.
As such, many who live on what are 'loosely' termed as 'Aboriginal Communities/Missions' these day are very easily manipulated and persuaded by the 'smooth talking Zealots', like this Tongan woman into doing almost anything they are told is right.

@Triphid The christians did the SAME thing with the Native American tribes in the US.
What the fuck is it with white christians? They destroy everything they touch.

@WilliamFleming Their culture goes back over 30,000 years, long before the Europeans ever considered crawling out of the caves and began to become civilized peoples, their cultural heritage is and should be as important to them as anyone else's should be.
We scream like stuck pigs when some radical movement attacks and destroys relics, etc, of some foreign culture BUT, I get the impression that you seem quite blasé, though I may be wrong here, about this willful and wanton destruction wrought upon the Aboriginal culture, wrought NOT by their own decisions, etc, BUT by the willful and deliberately DESTRUCTIVE influences of some completely foreign Outsider claiming to be a Prophetess of a completely Imaginary Supreme being.

@KKGator Yes I know, and as one who IS part European, part Australian Aboriginal plus part Cherokee and Navajo Native American, only to well what the Christians/Europeans have done and what Crimes against Humanity they have been guilty of.

And yet NEVER have there been retrospective charges laid even once against them.

@Triphid Well, at least some of the tribes in the US have been allowed to operate legal casino gambling operations.

please read that knowing I am being extremely sarcastic

@KKGator Yep, I got the sarcasm extremely well there and thank you.
You might already know BUT I'll mention it anyway, the Cherokee peoples in Oklahoma ACTUALLY contribute well over $30 Million dollars ( U.S. Currency) per annum to the coffers of Oklahoma and the Federal U.S. Governments EVERY year and get SWEET F**K ALL back in return.

@Triphid All true.

@KKGator Always truth, my honour WILL NOT allow me to lie and my honour is important to me as it SHOULD be to everyone.

@Triphid As one who has full respect for aboriginal culture, I have nothing but contempt for missionaries who, in ignorance and contempt plow over anything that is different than their own silly dogmas.

But cultures are in constant flux. I don’t see it as my place to leap in and rescue someone’s culture unless they are being physically coerced. It is up to the individuals to decide what life they want, and if they freely decide to abandon old ways, that is their concern only.

@Triphid Based on what you say, it sounds as though the greater bulk of aboriginal culture has long since been lost. Whether good or bad, they will not and can not go back. They will move forward, gradually seizing control of their destinies, and creating their own new and unique culture.

@WilliamFleming Why, exactly, SHOULD they discard their old culture and " create a new and unique one?"
I note that you live in Alabama, is that not so?
Did not the Slave Owners of Alabama, etc, FORCE those slaves to discard their culture, look at what that did to those people, look at what the Non-Indigenous Americans have done to the Indigenous Native Americans and, in smoe cases, are STILL doing less the slaughter, bounties and open Genocide of course?
And NO, in numerous regions the Australia Aboriginal culture still survives, is well and still respected by the peoples who are proud of it even though the BIG Money concerns such as Mining, etc, strive to destroy it for the sake of mineral explorations and extractions, etc.
Is the culture of the present day Europeans truly any better than theirs is, NO is the real answer since it teaches greed, discrimination, vilification, isolation, etc, etc?

@Triphid I know little or nothing about Australia and the aboriginal population. I am glad there are places where their culture survives, and I wish them well.

I still maintain however that cultures are not static, and it’s not just European culture running roughshod over indigenous peoples. The merging of cultures has been going on since time immemorial. Look at India and China, each composed of many, many ethnic groups. China has sort of swamped Tibet and is destroying their Buddhist traditions—but wait! What about those damned Buddhist missionaries who came there and destroyed the previous animist religion? The history of humanity is all about merging.

Except for one illegal incident, no Alabamian ever forced African slaves to abandon their traditions. Alabama only became a state in 1819 and was a slave state for only a few decades. The slaves that were brought here were born into slavery and had been forced to abandon their traditions generations earlier. That doesn’t make it right of course, and in no way can slavery be justified, however, if it had not been for slavery there would be very few African-Americans among us and we’d be worse off for it. We have, in fact, soaked up some of the African culture.

We have to accept history and forge ahead. Every day is a miracle and a precious gem to be savored, regardless of your culture.

I don't believe that for a minute.
Zealots like that NEVER "think".

@KKGator - Zeaots of all stripes always have a way to rationalize themselves into the superior position.