Yes what a sneaky way to convert people to logical and rational thinking.

@Charl5 Ones own thinking will always seem logical and rational to them. It is the thinking of other people that needs to be corrected.

The street epistemologists are only getting people to recognize their cognitive dissonance. They get people to say what they think they know and then ask them how they know. They end up seeing their conflicting ideas and the epistemologists try to help them resolve it much like Socrates did.

@dare2dream There’s nothing wrong in principle with engaging in dialog. It just seems wrong and arrogant to assume that your thinking is the correct thinking to have and that these others are the ones with cognitive dissonance, and that you should therefore stop people on the street and “help” them.

It is also dishonest. At least the JWs tell you straight out what they are up to. To be honest the “interviewer” should say, “Ma’am, I would like to quiz you about your beliefs. I suspect that some of your beliefs are irrational and I am here to help you fix that. I think you should be an atheist like me. My beliefs are all rational and the correct ones to have.”

In a real dialog there is an exchange of ideas, and there is mutual respect. Each person should have an open mind to the other person’s opinions. Each might learn from the other.

@LimitedLight Street Epistemology is not research. It was established by its designer as a method for creating atheists.

[samharris.org]

Do you really think it’s honest to trick someone into a fake interview in order to convert them to your personal world view? IMO it is the height of arrogance and it is deceptive and dishonest. Even worse, the proposed world view is flawed to the core, leading to depression, psychic blindness, and disease of all types.

@dare2dream, @WilliamFleming I see Williams point about not being upfront about being an atheist/agnostic. Unfortunately most of the indoctrinated people don’t understand that being an atheist/agnostic is a neutral position on the supernatural/god claim and immediately go on the defensive and aren’t open to a honest exchange of opinions. The goal is to bring everyone to rational thinking and not believing things without good evidence.

@Charl5 Did you click on that Sam Harris link above? The goal is to create atheists. The founder even wrote a book so titled.

The worst of it is that they are not bringing people to rational thinking, rather they are spreading their particular flawed beliefs in materialistic scientism.

@WilliamFleming Wtf are you talking about? Proposed world view flawed to the core? Psychic blindness and disease?

@Charl5 From the link above, the creator of street epistemology and writer of A Manual for Creating Atheists is being interviewed:

[5. What do you consider to be the core commitments of a healthy epistemology?

1. An understanding that the way to improve the human condition is through reason, rationality, and science. Consequently, the words “reason” and “hope” would be forever wedded, as would the words “faith” and “despair.”]

While reason, rationality and science are great tools for many purposes, IMO those tools can contribute but little to the deep questions of existence. As far as improving the human condition, those tools help us stay alive but they certainly give no hope. The assertion is itself an irrational belief.

@WilliamFleming Evidence based reason, rationality and science are things I care about. Appreciating and enjoying the beauty of the world in the little time we have, I care about. The “deep question of existence?” I care little about. We are dirty little mammals lucky enough to spring into existence in this corner of the universe, nothing more.

@Charl5 “We are dirty little mammals lucky enough to spring into existence in this corner of the universe, nothing more.”

You see, you are expressing a belief and that belief can not be proven. It is no more rational than belief in a god.

I care very much about the deep questions of existence. Awareness of the mystery and majesty of reality with its staggering implications brings me continuous joy, appreciation and reverence.

What it does not give is any kind of belief. It gives only bewilderment, but a pleasant bewilderment.

Maybe it’s a good thing to shake peoples belief, but we should also be open to modifying our own beliefs.

@WilliamFleming I do believe I’m one of the 7.7 billion human mammals on this planet, in this universe. I could be wrong? And I’m open to examining evidence that I’m not a mammal or here, But For now I’ll trust the scientific methodology on this one. You say belief in god is just as rational? Anyway thanks for the correspondence.

@Charl5 Human bodies are mammal bodies, and that part is correct. What I question is that we are dirty and little. Those are relative states. It would be just as correct to say that we are clean and large.

You are saying that we exist through just lucky chance. There is nothing scientific about such a declaration. It can not be proven that the physical universe just sort of fell into existence by accident. It can not be proven that life arose on its own through random hap-stance events. If you are going to make such ludicrous and meaningless claims you might as well just say that god did it. Both statements are meaningless and explain nothing.

And you say that you are a body existing in the physical universe. But what is this physical universe? Our perception of the universe is nothing but an illusion. If you are going to trumpet science you should get it right. According to quantum gravity theory time does not exist except as an illusion and space is not the smooth, infinite expanse that we imagine. There are no “things”. Particles of matter are events. Surely we can not logically speak of existence in the physical universe in our ordinary everyday way and have it mean anything.

When it comes to the deep questions of reality we are abysmally ignorant. We do not understand reality, and more to the point, we don’t even know what we are ourselves. There is only one thing that we experience, and that is conscious awareness. The only rational response to reality that I can see is total bewilderment, framed in conscious awareness. There’s nothing about it to believe or disbelieve.

In its pure form atheism makes total sense—just that you are not convinced of the existence of God. It is a statement about yourself that requires no argument. But there are often irrational underlying beliefs of which atheists are unaware.

If I were going to walk around on the street and approach strangers about their beliefs, my goal would not be to persuade them to adopt scientism or materialism. My goal would be to wake them up to the absolutely staggering implications of the mystery of existence.

@WilliamFleming Read back, I said nothing about being here by chance or hap-stance events. Those are your wacky assertions. What I did say was I care very little about your”deep question of existence”. So please find someone in your version of this world to converse with. I have some dirty little mammal friends I wish to share my time with.

@WilliamFleming, I see what your saying. You're very eloquent, but I wish your replies were as courteous as a street epistemologist, asking questions and listening and not knocking down other people.

@Biblebeltskeptic Sorry, I do get carried away on some issues.