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Are Atheist hateful towards spiritual people?

It appears to me that many atheists feel entirely justified bashing religious "people" for their beliefs. I don't respect bad ideas, but I appreciate the people who have ideas. It doesn't matter which view is correct. It matters more that people treat each other with respect and attack the bad ideas without attacking the people who have ideas. Is there a God? I don't believe in God, but I also don't disbelieve. I don't have any means of testing whether there is a God, but we don't know, nobody knows.

paul1967 8 Mar 30
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1

In other words, you're agnostic. Welcome to the site! 🙂

Jnei Level 8 Mar 30, 2018

No I'm as Atheistic as you get. I'm agnostic only when I debate religion because the burden of proof is shifted to me and I'm defeating myself taking that position. I just think people need to attack irrational beliefs and not people with those beliefs

@paul1967 Fair enough. However, "I don't believe in God, but I also don't disbelieve. I don't have any means of testing whether there is a God, but we don't know, nobody knows" is as good a definition of an agnostic as any other.

@paul1967, my experience is that people of belief generally identify with their religion to a degree that, should i question or refuse to dignify the content of said religion, it will be taken as personal attack. the onus to stay on topic in this & many other cases is with the recipient of an opposing view point.

7

I have a problem with stupid.
I have a problem with condescension.
Not hateful, but they really do frustrate me.
If we had pets who were that stupid we would probably have them put down thinking they had suffered a stroke.
OK, I can't disprove the existence of a god, you cannot prove the non-existence of anything.
However just about everythign in the bible and other religious texts has been disproven, the GODS in those texts do not exist, so if there is a god, it is not the one these fools worship.
There is so much information around these days that anyone capable of logic and reason would just laugh at all the religions. Yet these people persist in their incredible ignorance, by choice, they choose to, they want to. My level of tolerance decrease constantly.
Rant over.

stay away from them.

@BettyColeman, easier said than done - as you just proved with your presence.

@BettyColeman ah that I could, the world is full of stupid people, (myself included on some issues I guess)

6

I'm not until your beliefs are infringing on the rights of others. I don't care what someone believes if that belief turns into an action that hurts someone.

@Donotbelieve I just think it is really not a conversational subject for a group or a crowd. Someone in the bunch is going to probably feel seriously infringed upon, as you said. Since your belief is something you cannot prove, it is not to be argued and bantied about. In the end, it only causes hurt over a no win topic.

@Donotbelieve Wow..... I have no words.

@Donotbelieve Not even sure where any of that came from!

@Donotbelieve I can't even... SMH.

5

As an atheist, I don't feel hateful toward any religious people. If I did, I wouldn't have many friends. Just don't try to convert me. My friends don't hassle me about being an atheist.

I do feel anger toward politicians like Jeff Sessions who want to turn their bigoted, religious beliefs into laws discriminating against women and minorities.

5

People (of any stripe) tend to unconsciously fall into false binaries: if you're not with me, you're against me...if you don't believe what I believe, you must believe the opposite...if you don't like what I like, you must hate what I like...if you're not in my tribe, you must be my enemy.

And, ooh, Lordy--it only takes the barest smidge of corroborating "evidence" for these binaries to become hard and fast, irrefutable dogma: so one bitter, argumentative atheist means all atheists are bitter, spiteful people who hate believers.

Confirmation bias keeps people from straying outside of their lanes. And the backlash effect returns people to their lanes, forcefully, when outside information rudely challenges their worldviews.

It's not a "believers-versus-atheists" thing. It's an "anybody-versus-anybody-else-who-doesn't-subscribe-to-my-identity" thing. It just happens to be particularly fraught in the "believers-versus-atheists" arena due to the strength of conviction and feeling--on all sides.

Oh, and that critical distinction between ideas and people which you make so effortlessly? Yeah, most people don't.

I am not an athiest. I have no labels, but because of what someone believes about God, I cannot hate them. It is not provable either way. There could be a God and then again NONE. Why should I care? If they think they go around once, let them alone. Why oh Why hate someone for something you cannot prove?

I'm not convinced the binaries are false--persecution and anti-X bias have real repercussions in the world, and thus serve to reinforce the divides.

Tribalism exists because of the actuality of these divides, and the repercussions of being on one 'side' or the other.

@BettyColeman and maybe there are 7 gods. Or 19. Whatever -- I truly believe it has to be a prime number of gods. I can't provide a reason for this, just a statement of belief. Please respect me and my beliefs.

@GlyndonD I respect your right to personal belief that you have to explain to no one. with that said, I do not have any number of gods. Do not pry into my private life. I respect yours.

absolutely with you; most people are not capable of distinguishing between their selves & all sorts of ideas, dogmas, principles, dreams. that takes an awakened mind.

5

I've noticed some to be pretty militant to be honest. As if they too have forgotten we are all human.

5

If replying to a believer , show me proof, evidence is being rude , then so be it.

4

The short answer is “Yes.”
The longer answer is “Yyyyyyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeesssssssssssssssssssssssss.”

I had a weird conversation on this very site over capitalizing God as a proper noun. I got bitched out by some lady for pointing out that proper grammar was still a thing.

I don't disagree with you, proper grammar should not be sacrificed as a means to be disrespectful towards someone's beliefs.

@paul1967 god should be capitalized if it's a name. God should not be capitalized when you are referring to it as a thing. Gods should not be capitalized. I answer the questipn "Do ypu believe in God?" I always answer "I do not believe gods can exist in our universe."

@GlyndonD As I said, I would follow rules of conventional grammar. I make grammatical mistakes all the time, but I intend to spell and punctuate accurately.

@paul1967 You are a conventional atheist? How do you spell "oxymoron"?

@paul1967 When believers ask "Do you believe in God?", they are setting you up for denial rather than disagreement. By using "God" (capitalized), they are using a name -- an existing thing -- and are asking if you are denying its (real) existence. They want you to, at least, admit to your faulty belief system rather than making a credible opinion that there are no gods at all (including God) You need to reframe the question, using "a god" or "gods".

People who write conventional grammar books or even conventional people who determine conventional grammar are mostly believers, and they will try to use even grammar to get you to believe their schtick. Don't allow them to manipulate you by framing the subject with "God" rather than "a god" or "gods".

@GlyndonD When I spell Pinocchio I capitalize the name even though I don't believe in Pinocchio. If you choose to spell God as god I couldn't care less. I don't care what theists try and do. What they believe is their business and if they wish to believe in an all powerful and knowledgeable diety that's giving them eternal life then that's a delusion they need to work out. I fight back when I see them impossing their delusion on me or anyone else.

@paul1967 When you fight back, fight on your terms, not theirs. (Pun intended)

That's why i use "gawd"

4

I'm not hateful towards them, at most I am very critical of the die hard religious folk that try to impose their crap upon others. You only get heat if you are the one making things difficult for others, and if you scream persecution afterwards, then you don't deserve any respect. Being critical of beliefs isn't hateful, no idea is beyond scrutiny and must stand up to scrutiny else be cast aside as the tripe that it is.

I give all folks besic respect that all deserve upon initial encounters, but there is a clear distinction between the holder or a belief and the belief itself.

you & i may realise that clear distinction; what if the holder of belief doesn't? identification with religion isn't that uncommon.

3

Expressing one's opinion is not wrong. Are you saying you shouldn't point out wrongful thoughts and beliefs? Are you saying it's OK to say Jesus did this and that, but not to say that he didn't? Are evangelists being hateful when they try to tell the unbeliever that his thoughts are wrong?

It's hateful to spread a belief so that you can feel more confident that your beliefs are actually true and further removing doubt that you have an afterlife. That's called sacrificing another person for your own benefit. That's hateful.

I am saying it serves no purpose to argue religion. If you want to do that, form a group of lie believers and debate your butts off. Leave everyday people alone. It serves no purpose to argue a belief system. Why hurt someone. Someone said to me once, I don't like your make up the way you have it. I must have made a face because they came back with Would you not want someone to tell you the truth? I answered back a NO. I did not give her my opinion of what I thought of the way she looked.If I want someone's opinion I will ask for it. What makes you think you have the right to turn another's world upside down?Just because you believe different? I say you are in a personal choice area and when I walk up to someone I make it a point to complement them on something, their hair, shoes, something. Why hurt people over what you cannot prove?

@BettyColeman the Purpose is to show others, who may have previously had no idea, that it is okay to think for yourself!

3

From one Paul to another, I know religious people have no problem whatsoever telling atheists that we're going to be smoking in hell after we die. Now, I take issue with that.

I do tend to be dismissive of people who reject evidence when it conflicts with the words that were written down 6000 years ago in another language, when people thought the sun revolved around the Earth and that God chose 12 tribes out of all the people on the planet to be the most special people of all... and who expect people to base their personal decisions on the morality laid down by the tribal laws of that time and place. That's not "ideas", it's dogma.

Now, you might think that attitude is hateful, I don't know. I prefer to think of it as "bemused irritation" combined with "grudging tolerance", especially since so many politicians still pander to them and I can't do anything about it. For now.

VOTE!

@LiterateHiker Yes. I do. But look at who won the last election cycle, and look at the party in power. We're outnumbered.

I try to educate people I know, those who might actually handle the knowledge, on the idea that being a "values voter" is actually voting against their own interests... but it's an uphill battle. People who vote based on the myth that Democrats want to ban all guns and force women to have abortions, are not going to listen to rational discussion about macroeconomics and tax policy.

In our current political climate, it's held to be suicide for an American politician to openly state they're an atheist... although I suspect a large percentage really are. I dream of the day when an atheist is President.

@LiterateHiker Can I click like for that statement one hundred times!?

Educate, be informed and vote. In times like these, we need to be aware and stay far away from apathy!

3

I have never met anyone who bashed anyone else for their beliefs - maybe I have lived a sheltered life?We live in anno domini 2018 and no one has yet had proof of the existence of a god - that weighs with me ; two thousand and eighteen years with no peep from a god any god there are apparently 320,000,000 gods and in that time 2018 years not one of those three hundred and 20 million has appeared. I am open to the possibility that one will turn up but I am not holding my breath and yes it is true what you say - nobody knows.

Excuse me, but when was the last time you really looked into the back of a Ritz cracker? God shows up there from time to time, and when your brain is hemorrhaging after your heart stops beating for awhile. There are many reports of this. Seriously!

@GlyndonD, sorry, but i wouldn't trust you with medical concerns LOL!

@walklightly What about Ritz crackers?

@GlyndonD, well, now you're talkin!

3

Sorry for your experiences .. Let this one ost and others who agree, that is not how atheists, at least most atheists are or behave.

We are good without god and without " the fear" with guilt which comes along for the fantasy ride.

I agree as a general statement, Atheists are very good people, I might be willing to say better than theist, but that's if you look at the whole. I'm referring to how we talk to theist or about theist. If I'm wrong about something and someone responds by telling me I'm a idiot or a fool I'm less likely to hear anything they say because they've lost a great deal of credibility with me already.

@paul1967, & if i'd say: "your statement is an assumption, & a silly one at that" , i'd possibly be crucified, because it would be taken personal. obsessive religious identification syndrome (just made that up)

3

no we're not hateful. what does that achieve ? But your stance on god is ignoring so much evidence to the contrary [ the hubble telescope surely makes it plain the vastness that this being is supposed to influence ].

3

I can only speak for myself - don't have a lot of hate in me - anger yes hate no and yet I probably have some very good reasons for hating - I feel I have a nice enough persona and am kind I certainly wouldnt want to actively hurt anyone and it doesnt bother me in the least what religion anyone is.
I have often been the butt of fun for others - when i did my person centred counselling course there were about 18 of us one was a deaconess, two priests two nuns, a c of e vicar and a sundry set of believers and non believers - It was interesting that only the men outed themselves.
I got on well with the vicar who called me 'the wee heathen' , at the end of the course those of us who were friends went on a walk together and it started to rain we said to David the vicar that we thought he'd have sorted that for us, with a word upstairs- his reply was don't blame me i 'm just sales, you'll have to talk to management!

3

Is back to humans again
what is right is wrong for the other what is wrong is right for some else
respecteach view if you disagree just do not listen and move on
no need to debate or argue just move on
simple if the convesation is heading south you move to the north

Rosh Level 7 Mar 30, 2018
3

No I don't think atheists disrespect Spiritual people. We should not look down on others.

2

Not hateful, but frustrated that rather than an open discussion, conversation consists of parotting memes and talking points without thought. I recall (perhaps it was XKCD?) a flowchart once about "discussions". Question 1 - Are you willing to change your mind? If yes, we can proceed towards a discussion. If no, you are would be spouting tropes, memes, and talking points. I can see plenty of that on TV, browsing, etc.

2

I am Atheist but I do see evidence that suggest perhaps we are not alone in the Galaxy or even the Universe. Perhaps we are the product of Alien creation? If so then I guess that would be a god like figure to us. I would venture to say that a being advanced enough to create us would be sufficently advanced to appear magical or wizard like. They could perform task that is beyond our understanding. So they must be gods, right? In any event I don't chastise people for their belief. I believe that all human beings deserve dignity and respect. I do agree also that there is nothing wrong with criticizing a bad ideas. Its pretty much ingrained into the minds of a freethinker to question everything. Bashing fellow human beings is counter priductive to moving forward as a race. If we are to advance our own civilization then we must first become civilized.

Now, you and I believe the same. Thank you for sanity.

if all human beings would be deserving of respect, as you suggest, we as a race would surely be civilized - so no need to advance. the reality is that still too many people believe in the powers of violent solutions; i deny them my respect, because they are the ones who hinder the advancement of humanity.

2

I don't know about hateful--okay, yes there are some hateful people here--but most are just not tolerant. They are certain that they are correct and do not want to tolerate anyone who believes differently. In this, they are just like every religion.

However, there are some great people on here, too, who respect the right of every individual to believe what he/she wants to believe, regardless of whether they think it's right or not.

marga Level 7 Mar 30, 2018

Just to be clear I wasn't pointing my finger at anyone or even people here. I was just saying that I think if you're trying to convince someone they're wrong you shouldn't call them stupid. I don't think you should call anyone stupid unless you're being really clear that they're being stupid about this one thing and take it one step further and admit that you are capable of doing the same thing on different subjects.

Thank you, I feel that way also.

2

I’m a spirtual atheist and I find it easy to not be hateful toward people.

This question isn't designed as a judgment, I've never heard anyone call themselves a spiritual Atheist. Under my definition of "spiritual," that statement would be a contradiction. When, you say spiritual do you mean supernaturally spiritual, like life after death spirit type of thing or as a description of your connection with being alive? Again I'm not judging I'm just a curious person.

I knew it wasn’t judgemental. 🙂 My comment wasn’t meant to read as defensive.

I have a spiritual life that includes meditation. The name “spiritual” is unfortunate because of it’s inclusion of “spirit,” a supernatural and baseless concept.

My views are the same ones that Sam Harris argues in his book Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality without Religion.

Meditation has been shown to have benefits, but there’s no reason to believe the chakra and immortal energy claims that meditation teachers insist on offering while they teach introspection.

I can accept personal choice but never continual bitching and negativity.

2

No..... we want to save them from wasting time, money, energy, and emotion on a completely worthless fraud.

2

I hate hypocrisy. Most religious people l have known are hypocrites. The way the religious right fawns over our President. He is not only a horrible President, he is a despicable human being. I don't like people pushing their beliefs on others. I don't push my beliefs or way of life on others, and l expect the same in return.

The evangelists actually believe you can be a horrible person, but if on your deathbed you repent your sins, accept Christ as your savior, and devote your life to him, you are going to heaven. It is not hypocritical, it is stupid.

2

It seems like everyone is hateful to someone at sometime. I think it is called human nature. I do not like to be negative. I do my best to steer clear of negativity. I firmly believe that negativity makes you ill. The other day someone on facebook called me an optimist like it was a disease. I said I would always rather see the glass 1/2 full. I realize that is totally against my stand against 45. I cannot control my hatred of the emotional face he shows humanity. I would like to see him dead and not in years, soon. There is nothing I can do to cause that to happen. Everything 45 touches, he destroys. He opened up emissions requirements on vehicles, allows trophy kills now on elephants and lions, opened our national parks to be mined, showed a picture of a border wall that is a fake, and now is going to withdraw troops from Syria. 45 is insane, and I don't care what lies his doctor said aout mental health. I guess you just try to be as good a person as you can and realize you are not going to always be happy with yourself.

Well put!

2

I find that many of them are. Which is why I think there is a clear difference between Agnosticism/Secular Life and Atheism. I will never call myself a true atheist due to tolerance of others -- I have friends that have strong religious beliefs in Judaism and Christianity. Most true "Atheists" I know enjoy the combative part of defending their belief system (science, rational thought, etc) and attempting to convince others. I have no desire to try to convince others, or challenge their beliefs. I take no joy in trying to challenge what people are committed to and the likelihood of those changing their views in that position are very small, so I don't do it. I just want to be accepted and respected that I have my own commitment to science and logic. And I don't want others to try to change my views to embrace theirs. Prosyletizing is the same whether you are doing it on behalf of religion or logical thought. Shoving your belief systems down other people's throats accomplishes nothing. People have to come to their own realizations.

2

It does matter which view is correct.

Allowing false beliefs to dominate social order has led us into the shitpile we're currently all sitting in.

If an adult believes in an absurd fiction, so much so that they're basing legal and political policy upon it, then that belief needs to be shown to be utterly nonsensical and the believer a fool for believing it.

There is no time or space left to coddle this crap and write it off as "just another view" it's not, it's fiction and it's harmful fiction.

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