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I guess my question is why does God not want me. That is really how I feel is that as much as I hate God he hates me and I want to know why. I want to know why I have to be alone almost all of the time, I want to know why I have a husband who’s life is more important than mine, I want to know why I do not have friends. I feel like if there was a God loved me I would have some thing. I would not of been ignored by my Family. I would feel love from God and other people and all I feel is isolation and loneliness. So another question why am I here? Does God put people here to suffer? I think so no I am sure of it

Dead 5 June 27
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57 comments

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2

There is no such thing as god or gods, your life as it is only means you are passing through a set of experiences that will change and pass at a rate depending on how much time and effort you are willing to put in.
Get some counseling or just chat, forget religion it is a waste of time, stop blaming and start solving and doing.
You are old enough and have been through enough to know better than to write anthems to self pity like the above.
Find friends, make friends and if you can't because of were you are are or live, make friends here, most of us don't bite.
You will be amazed how quickly things can and do turn about.

Age does not matter here. If she has a clinical mood disorder, her age will not help her until she seeks out treatment, be it medical or counselling/therapy, to treat her depression, anxiety, BPD, or whatever she suffers from.

@demifeministgal, with apologies to you @Leslie00 I was attempting to be tactful, and I would not dream of discussing a third person's conditions in a public forum as they were not there.
Ever heard the old cliche "does she take sugar"

ah yes it was MY response that lacked tact here. LOL shifty fella ain't ya

15

This god you speak of does not exist. You might want to look into getting some therapy to help with the obvious depression you are going through. This god you speak of is a Man-made construct that needs to be retired to the same place Santa Claus and the Easter bunny resides.

There is no Easter Bunny? Shit? Where did those eggs come from?

@Donotbelieve Oh, Shit, you mean I ate some S---. Well, I am used to it, the Cheeto has been president.

12

God doesn't hate you nor does he love you, he's a fiction. So since God isn't a thing you have to look at the issues that plague you as problems that life has randomly thrown at you. You have to look at them pragmatically and strategize a way to deal with them as best as you can. You might succeed at overcoming them or you might fail.

We all have to deal with whatever life hits us with and life can suck in so many different ways for so many people but there's no God involved, just individual circumstances and simple dumb luck or the lack of it.

I'm so glad that you mentioned circumstances, luck, and chance! We have a tendency to tell ourselves that we - and we alone - can choose our paths. But there are a whole lot of other path-makers out there, and paths that zig and zag through the forest (have I overplayed that analogy?) and sometimes s**t just happens and we have to deal with it.

@AmyTheBruce There's no such thing as kismet and nothing happens for a reason, it's all just circumstances, chance, and luck. People like to think it's more orderly than that. It isn't.

@Leslie00 That's probably harmless enough as long as you don't anticipate an answer. That's when reality starts getting blurred.

10

My advice is stop blaming everything that is wrong in your life on a non-existent god and I believe you will find things will immediately improve. Take responsibility for your own life, nobody put you here for a grand purpose, you were born the same way as the rest of us, our parents gave us life because they were in a sexual union...it’s purely biology. When you realise that your destiny and happiness are in your own hands, then you will be in a much better position to improve things.

Your relationship with your husband seems shaky, you seem insecure and resentful of him, something you need to sit down and have a frank discussion about. If you are estranged or feeling ignored by your wider family, that too should be faced and discussed, in order to sort your concerns out. You have the ability to act in your own best interest by going out with a positive attitude to make friends, by joining in an activity or volunteering for a local charity.

I don’t mean to dismiss your fears, loneliness is a scourge, and if none of the changes needed to improve things work...then I urge you to seek professional counselling. Good luck and best wishes for the future..but remember you have the power within you to make life better!

10

Perhaps a good exercise here would be to replace the word "God" in all of your questions with the name of some god that you don't believe in at all. Maybe Zeus?

So, why does Zeus not love you? Why does Zeus seem oblivious to your pain? If Zeus was looking out for you, you would not feel isolation and loneliness.

How silly does that sound to you? But, in the same way that you can disregard Zeus, you can also disregard God. Both are equally ineffective, yes? In both scenarios, you are on your own.

But this is good news! You are on your own! You have the power to affect change, without being beholden to the whims of Zeus or God. Zeus ain't gonna fix your marriage, but YOU can try to do so. Zeus ain't gonna make friends for you, but YOU can reach out to people. And Zeus ain't gonna help you with depression, but YOU can take that first step and find yourself a counselor.

Forget about Zeus. Drop him like a bad boyfriend. YOU have more power than him.

Well reasoned!

@Leslie00 You have a lot of statements there! Some are true, some are not, and some are unrelated to one another.

"Absolutely nothing to believe in" If you mean that in some sort of faithful or inspirational sense then no, or at least not as far as I can see.

"But I obviously have no place in the universe..." Of course you do. You, me, and everybody else has a place, as much as any tree or shark or mountain. But, more than that, we even have some power to change our place! How great is that?!

"No one will ever love me because I'm not with a loving God..." I'm not sure how the conclusion (no one will love me) follows the premise (I'm not with a loving God). I am also not with Zeus, and yet some people love me. The one seems to have nothing to do with the other.

"I'm too useless and unimportant" Welcome to the club! We are, most of us, pretty insignificant except in our own small circles of family and friends. But that is precisely where you are having trouble: within your own small circle. And that's the real problem here. You should be important, and FEEL important, to your friends and family. If you don't, something needs to change.

I don't have enough information - and I'm not qualified anyway - to say precisely WHAT needs to change. Maybe you need a divorce. Maybe you need counseling. Maybe you just need a dog. I don't know. Whatever it is that you need, I do hope you find it. Because you're just as worthy as the rest of us.

10

"God" has absolutely Nothing to do with anything, it is an imaginary idea & wasting your time thinking about it does Nothing to improve your life. You are waiting for a bus that will never arrive!
See a counselor( you can find free orlow cost ones!)
Start depending on what You can do for yourself! It is totally up to you to make your life what you want it to be!

In my view Anne's right. It makes no sense to worry about bullshit. The whole concept of God is nonsense. It's a scam to control people.
Let me ask you. Did you ever see anything in your entire life that defied the physical laws of nature? Not even a coin or a pen levitating off the desk.

10

God is created by man to control others, mostly women. God isn't real he can't love you, want you, or know you. If you are unhappy in your marriage look into fixing it. If your family is not healthy for you, cut ties. If you need a purpose in life help others. That is the secret to happiness.

@Leslie00 No one is useless or deserves to be treated less than humanely. I am sorry you are in a tough situation. Others have suggested that you see a counselor, they do telemed now, you don't even have to go to the office. Some places offer free or low cost counseling. I know in Nebraska that the Methodist Health System does have free/low cost counseling, please check into resources in your area. I wish you peace.

@Leslie00 listen @HippieChick58 , she always gives thew most wise advice

9

[suicidepreventionlifeline.org]

They have both a telephone and a chat line.

You might want to ask about being set up with a counselor in your area - it sounds like you need to find some solutions for some heavy questions. And that you are struggling with some major life issues.

We also have a group here: "Mental Health Support "

Also this one: "Recovering from Religion"

I do not know if you've read her replies, but she may be resistant to further counselling. Which sucks, because the crappy counsellors she experienced, ruined her perceptions of the practice. I wish more crappy therapists could have their licenses revoked before ruining it for those suffering.
Here's her response: "And unfortunately any kind of therapy has got me more harm Been good. They did not want to hear what I was saying always had an agenda. They just walked over me and I will never go back to a therapist again. I’ve tried several and I’ve been into mental hospitals. Do you know if they do in a mental hospital? They give you meds which did not help me and coloring books. So no help there. The only part about being in the hospital that help me was being with the other patients"

@demifeministgal There were no replies when I posted this. There are bad therapists out there. And even bad mental health units - however when all experiences come up negative - I have to wonder what the person is seeking?

It is possible to find a therapist who will do the work YOU want to do.

It's why I suggested the suicide helpline. They often help with this "matching" work.
They can suggest the proper fit.

7

Please see a therapist.

Good advice. There seems to be practical solutions here that a professional can provide guidance with, to help build a foundation of self esteem, rather than walking around in the dark with poor self-guidance and bad questions.

7

One of the great things about becoming an atheist is that I was able to let go of any questions like this. I no longer have to worry about why god would do, or not do, this or that. Life just is. Things just happen. Sometimes they are good, sometimes horrible. But, when it comes down to it, there is no reason to think there is a god, or any supernatural force, causing any of it.

I never set out to become an atheist. My journey from leaving organized religion to becoming an atheist took over a decade. It was an anxiety ridden time for me; but, when I came out the other side, there was a peace I had never known as a believer.

My hope for you is that you find some peace. And, if you have deep feelings of depression, I hope you are able to seek help from a doctor or counselor.

Joanne Level 7 June 27, 2020

Good post! The only thing I'd humbly suggest rephrasing is: "...become an atheist..." is more correctly conveyed by "...returned to atheism..." I make that point because we're all born atheists, and stay that way for at least a couple of years.

We can also say that you "devconverted" (that is, BACK to atheism).

@FreeThotGuy . I guess I use the phrase "became an atheist " because it is something that just happened to me. It isn't something I planned on doing. But, I see your point. It is a return to one's natural state--before all the programming. In the religion I was raised in we are born with the stain of "original sin;" when, in reality, we are born without beliefs, without prejudices etc. that all has to be learned.

@Joanne It's all good. That said, EVERY opportunity I get I like to remind religion-subscribers that 1) we are all born atheists, and related, 2) Religion-subscription is NOT our natural state.

Those realizations, which interestingly seem to take many god-believers by surprise (and make no mistake, some push back against!), is important for them to key in on. At a minimum it should--at least for any religion-subscriber with a shred of critical thinking / reasoning ability--lead them to cut us AFAH people some slack, and move us at least a notch towards mutual respect and citizen equity status.

@FreeThotGuy Those whom I know believe we are born sinners, yet with an innate "desire" or "need" for their god. My family cannot understand that, since I shed my beliefs, I have no "god hole." They also question whether I had actually "truly" invited Jesus/God into my heart.

I cannot convince my own family that I was a true believer, who had truly invited the god I believed in into my heart, and truly prayed to this god during my deconversion process, and felt nothing from this god, then stopped believing in it. The fault has to be in me, not their god (or the possibility that this god does not exist). Since my own family cannot see this, I don't hold out any hope of convincing a stranger. My hope is that, at some point, they will no longer see reason as the enemy and will seek actual knowledge rather than religions dogma.

@Joanne I'm sorry that your family can see you as nothing other than a black sheep. I was lucky that all of my immediate family members are, and always have been, atheists--at least by the time we kids were born.

It's a testament to your intellect and critical thinking / reasoning ability that you were able to punch through and free yourself from the shackles or religion.On this:

"Since my own family cannot see this, I don't hold out any hope of convincing a stranger."

Again, I understand that you are not inspired to get your family members to see the light of reason. But you'd be surprised--there are plenty of other religion-subscribers who have just enough reason capacity to get that we're all born atheist. Over the years, I have spent a good bit of my time (arguably too much!) online defending minorities, notably AFAH people, so I jump at the opportunity to point out the "born atheists" fact--in particular when I see people bullying / picking on AFAH people.

The other thing to remember is that, when done online in a blog forum, it's not just the person you're directly addressing; other people can read (and learn) from your comments as well.

@FreeThotGuy : I do try to plant seeds that might cause someone to think when the opportunity arises. I just don't tend to use the "I was once a Christian" argument with Christians because they will always claim that I was never a true Christian.

@Joanne Understood!

6

I feel that there is a time when everyone comes to a point where they start to ask questions. It is not that God has abandoned you or anything like that. I have no idea how you interact with your world, that is for you and no one else.

I went through a time like this, it was at the same time I was just starting to think of writing a story. I started to tell story when I would put my kids to bed. It is a science fiction story that I made up as I went.

Anyway, I started to think what would happen if we were actually visited by another species from space. I wondered what they would think of our God. I came to the realization that they would necessarily have to have some other belief system probably based on Science, after all they got here. This allowed me to think that perhaps our concept has a problem. More on this at some other time. What happens if God disappears, for me?

For me it meant that I was responsible for all the decisions that got me to the place where I now found myself. I was not in a good place by any stretch of the imagination. I started thinking, well how did I arrive where I am, in the situation I am in, if I made the best decisions I could at the time. I felt that there was something else working against me. Perhaps I was in the best place I could be. Will I ever get out of this mess and have things better, live in a way that brings more satisfaction, more success, what ever that is for me.

At this time I would go to Powell's Books, I lived in Portland at this time, and it was the best library one could just walk through. (The books were all out in the open, not in stacks the public cannot get to) This did two things I did not realize would happen. First, I was introduced to many more people with the same problem, whole sections of books written by them, and second, this opened my world by bringing other influences into my realm. It took me out of my head, opened my eyes to other possibilities. I found a book, many times I would walk down the isles of books and one would just fall on the floor in front of me. It did not have to be answering a question, usually the title would just make a point that was like a road sign (for me, interpreted by me) that would take me somewhere not thought.

I came to realize that I was, had, allowed myself to put myself into the situation from which I was now in. I was kind of in a situation that was not working as I thought it should. I thought about this for a time and came up with the realization that if I wanted to change the way the world was presenting itself to me I had to change how I interacted with the world. I said I was at a bad place, at this time I had about $15.00 a week for incidentals of which food was one. Fortunately, Powell's wanted to sell books, they were large enough to have a particular person manage each section, and they had so many it did not really matter to them if you just sat in the isle and read them. At this time I also was in business partnership where we needed business, so being away from it was Ok.

I started by visiting different business groups, any group of people that had a different interest than I. Chamber of Commerce, Greater Portland Oregon Visitor as Association, The CIty Club of Portland, Portland Business Association. This was hard as I do not like large groups of people, being in this kind of a place gave me nightmares. I made it a point to participate as I could. The nightmares eased. Hard as it was, I started to find people who had completely different interests, who saw the world in a completely different ways. I learned that each of these people was actually doing the same thing I was, they just had a less interesting means to do it. I mean most of these people had to take this contact, like I was doing, to sell something or create some marketing plan, or some other like duty. It was their job, so for them it was not interesting, what they wanted to be doing. For them it was boring, so to talk with someone who had a different take allowed them to step out of their shoes and do something else than they thought they would be doing.

That did not matter to me, what mattered was that I was collecting a number of business cards, conversing with a number of people, and kind of doing a research project. I made many mistakes, many voyages into uncharted territory, but eventually I created a group of people that gave me something others did not have. Or perhaps they have the group but they do not use it the way I did. I created a loosely held group of people who knew me well enough I could ask questions, I could answer questions. I started to ask questions, stupid questions, I mean really stupid questions of people who I thought knew the answers. At first this was strange, I had no way to know if I was making sense. I realized I was asking the questions incorrectly, the questions were what I wanted to have answered, but I realized I did not really want the answer, I wanted help.

I started to ask for help with my business, my interests, my relationships. This was not easy as many people did not have the information I wanted the way I wanted to hear it. I had to change what I was asking, learning how to ask the question, keeping track of who knew what, of which person might help and which would not. Eventually, I had no idea of this, I created a group of people who surrounded me and from this, through little effort on their part, probably without their notice, my world changed. I went from making the best decision on a particular topic to finding a list of options and then taking from that list. All of a sudden the world opened up and from what was being presented I could choose options that would work better for me. Or I could just put off making any decision at all and see what arrived to me, which once I was brave enough to wait, always was a much better option to a much better situation.
This process was not easy, it took a lot of time(about five years to just feel good about what I was getting), a lot of effort, some money, but not much. The more I got into the process of research, the better things worked, my financial situation improved, not by much, but in reality what I was looking for was not money for anything financial. It worked to return to me what I asked.

I found that the end result was not to be getting information from people, but to know enough people with different views and ways of being in the world, that I became a resource for them,I could help them find connections that were meaningful to them. This was not my goal, at the time I did not even know it could be a goal, an option. It was the giving back that changed, that gave me answers.

I had no idea what I had to do, mentally where I was going to have to go, or what I was going to have to learn before I started this journey. I actually had no goal but to see what was out there and if I could find something else, I had no idea of what the options were, but I knew what I was capable of doing and I knew from which place I wanted to be seen (arriving?)

Had I been religious, perhaps I would state that I put myself in Gods hands, but I do not believe in God, and I realized that the hands I was putting myself in were mine and mine alone, with a lot of support. To some extent this site is a part of that vast network. The people on here have no idea what I get out of this place, some who read my posts may have an interest, I am not looking for a girl friend, I do not travel, though I would like to, something must be missing in his life that he would spend the time here and not somewhere else. The true answer is to write posts like this, to give myself some little access to authentic thought on my part, that may lead to some place yet to be determined. So thanks for the chance to rant. Thanks for everyone who makes up this site And gives me the chance for reflection. Thoughts?

That was beautiful. (Yes, I read the whole thing! 😁)

@AmyTheBruce I am getting better at writing. Trying to let the time of the wall of words loose and use commas and new paragraphs. It took time as I had to read people's comments t realize I was doing it.

Next time I'm in Powell's I will think of you and smile.

@TeresaWyckoff Watch out for those falling books. This actually happened to me. I was walking down the Philosophy isle looking for a book by Hegel, a book fell off the shelf and it was one of the ones I was looking for. I said "Thanks" to the spirit of books and walked to the register.

6

Forget God and get some counseling.

6

If you hate God, that would make you a believer, since you must believe in it to hate it. A non-existent god cannot hate or love. Maybe you just hate one of the many god/gods concepts? Your "feelings" are then equal to the emotions you would feel watching an emotional film.

You say you are alone, yet have a husband?

You were born into this world in the same way everyone else was, sperm and egg. No magic, no heavenly music or shouting, and no god making you suffer, unless you have proof of one.

You can't squeeze blood from a turnip and you can't get a non-existent god to love you. You must accept yourself, your self-rejection is evident.

If you don't have friends, ask yourself if you tend to reject others before they reject you.

Good stuff!

On this: "If you hate God, that would make you a believer, since you must believe in it to hate it," that is an important point to make. Similarly, I encourage reframing "left God" with "abandoned god-beliefs" or in the affirmative, "found reason."

When engaging with god-believers, I don't let them get away with verbiage that presupposes God-existence, like, as you pointed out, "hate God" does.

@FreeThotGuy Yes, it reminds me of the ridiculous Christian question, "Who do you say Jesus is: a Liar, a Lunatic, or Lord?"

Atheist: "Wait, you haven't proven a Jesus exists in the first place."

It presupposes that a god exists, and that evidence is unnecessary.

Like this stupid bumper sticker I saw: "If you don't believe in God, does that make him any less real?" 

Yes, they are that blatantly stupid.

This extremely simple and evident fact seems to elude them; "If you don't believe in leprechauns, does that make them any less real?"

I wrote about this here: "If I declare that my god is real and that it's scriptures are infallible."/

@nogod4me More good stuff!

I often run with those words "faith" and "belief", in large part because religion-subscribers have pretty much hijacked those words to the point that they weaponize them against AFAH people. For example, "faith leaders" are invited to the White House--with full intent of excluding AFAH leaders. So I like to counter such dastardly and exclusionary practices, using those words, this way for example:

AFAH people DO have faith. It's just that they choose to put ALL of their faith in worthy fellow human beings, with none to spare for god-beliefs!

I have written similarly about "beliefs" / "believe."

Christianists like to push and frame as "Atheists don't believe in anything" and "Atheists have no faith." I always like to challenge such assertions when they pop up.

Regarding bumper stickers, I had one made up that says "In LOVE We Trust!" (I've also seen "In Reason We Trust" which I also like).

6

To your points: there is no god; you are above average; others are scared of your thoughts. You’re at a pretty good place here, and you count.

There is no ‘reason’ for our existence ..other than some evolutionary drive to procreate. If life forms didn’t have that drive, they’re gone. So here we are … all aware of our place within a barely conceivable universe, and wondering, what now?

Seems we’ve a culture formed around fear, not much changed since we first hid from ..thunder. So we huddled together, and made more of us. I suspect there was a survival advantage to having a ‘strong male’ make some serious decisions … but that power and ‘authority’ appears addictive, especially to our less aware or educated..

Many accept that pattern, while others have no intention of giving it up. Women appear to fall in line culturally, ending up trapped. Religion is further used to ‘justify’ their subordination. Don’t know that I can suggest a painless, or safe way out… We’ve some good people around here who likely can, many having escaped themselves.

In the meantime - no shit - you count ...and sound to be evolving to another awareness.. Take it as slow and careful as necessary, know ‘it isn’t you,’ and ..plan your escape. We won’t tell 🙂

Varn Level 8 June 27, 2020
6

There are no gods, therefore something that does not exist can't hate or be hated, it's like getting depressed because you think that unicorns hate you. You are obviously depressed and need help, call a free hotline, they can help you. Here's a link. [psychcentral.com]

6

A much easier answer: don't stress, he doesn't exist. And heck - a few quick examples why, and one long one . . . zoom in on and read the Epicurean Paradox one. And ask ANY Christian to rationalize it to you (and they will cry "free will" - which that "salvation" one quickly destroys)

Pure simple logic proves, beyond a doubt, that god but is too weak and/or too much of an asshole to eliminate suffering. Or, he simply doesn't exist.

5

That's "god" for ya - used as a scapegoat for good and bad for gazillions of years
by thousands of cultures !

Sorry for the news - but only you are responsible for how your life goes.

5

its no doubt a cliche but "one day at a time" can be good to keep in mind. it can also work for minutes and hours. I would suggest ignoring all this God talk on here if it's not helping. it really doesn't matter one way or the other because either god's not caring, or not there at all. either way what we have to work with is us. if talking to someone here helps I'm sure many folks will be willing to listen. many of us are familiar one way or another with what you're feeling. try for the chin-up, eat your vegetables, and wear your mask. 🤗🤗

5

Leslie, you sound like you might be very depressed. I know because I've been there many times. I hope you are seeking or getting some mental health help. It pains me to my core to hear YOUR pain. Please find someone to talk to who will listen and can offer you some help. You are not alone! You may feel that way right now, but please know there are people who care about you, even strangers. I care about you.

5

Hello. Sorry you are having such difficulties in life. Personally I don't believe a god has anything to do with it because I do not believe in any god. Have you tried to seek counseling? A good therapist may be able to help you sort out a few things and may be able to help you on a more satisfying like path.

4

You're lucky... The Great Gazoo hates me... And he is more powerful than god...

4
  1. Do you believe in God?

  2. Maybe the hate that you're feeling comes from the "control" that God has had over your life. This is a large part of religion that people have to recover from. Psychologically, religion is an anxiety inducing, controllingly abusive mess.

  3. As for your other relationships, you have to find a healthy way to put yourself first. Practice some self- care and get in touch with your inner "you" again. When you put the needs of everyone else (both God and family) above your own needs, you start to forget who YOU are and what makes you the unique individual that you are. Its like when you're on an airplane and they are giving the safety speech: remember that sometimes you have to help yourself before you are able to assist others.

  4. If you're feeling particularly hopeless, reach out to a professional that can help you navigate what you're feeling. You aren't alone in feeling these things; maybe it's time you gave yourself the gift of self actualization and acceptance. You'll be amazed at how stable you'll feel when you are able to sort through these feelings. Future You will thank Present You for the choices you make right now.

4

Wrong site. Find a site full of believers. There is no god.

That's not really appropriate talk for someone going through a tough time. Maybe you are on the wrong thread.

And this is Agnostic not Atheist. Learn the difference before you start spouting off at people.

JoyKiser, so you would exclude atheists from this site? It would lose an awful lot of intelligent people. I'm surprised at this, I never would have written on a site that was named atheist.com that agnostics should be excluded. My your perspective is so narrow I wouldn't be surprised if you were a theist.

3

Leslie, you are not alone. Look at all the replies to your post. These are all people that care about you. We've never met you, but care enough about your existence to try and help. Use the site to try and make connections

Someone mentioned finding a hobby. Cooking and baking is something you can do 'for your husband', but can really be for you. Something you can take pride in as you learn and progress. There's tons of site all over the internet to help you.

Also your Hudgens sounds abusive. If not physically then emotionally, and controlling. He's determining your self worth. If that's the case, you need to separate yourself from that.

Wishing you the best,
David

3

Leslie, you do have someone, you have you!! Out of kindness, and having been there, please, reach out for counseling. For you, not your husband, for you!! You need to love yourself first, take care of your self, you need You! Please, talk with someone.

3

Why does God not want you? Most likely answer--because God doesn't exist. I think there are only three other possibilities: God created us but does not involve itself in our lives at all, God's power is limited, or God is malevolent. An all-powerful creator god that cares about and loves us is logically impossible if evil and suffering exist.

Regardless, your hatred toward God is wasted energy. There are things worth hating, but why hate something that can't even be shown to exist? Even if there is such a thing as God, your hatred of it is hurting you more than it ever could hurt God. Save your hatred for things you know are real and that you are able to impact, even if only slightly.

mjwood Level 4 June 27, 2020

An all-powerful creator god that cares about and loves us is logically impossible if evil and suffering exist.

This is not so. Imagine for a moment God, being super benevolent, decides to remove the most evil thing in the world and the thing that causes the most suffering. And because he's all knowing and benevolent, he decides to do this before he creates the universe because, necessarily no one suffering the thing that causes the most suffering is more benevolent than one or more people suffering that thing. But then he'd know mankind would have a new thing that causes the most suffering, so he'd eliminate that ahead of time, too. Then the third, fourth, and fifth most suffering-inducing things. This would continue until he decided on a stopping point, that, due to our limited frame of reference would literally be the most horrible thing a human could experience. So with our currently frame is reference, it would be like eliminating SIDS and child rape backward until you were left with stubbed toes and incorrect use of homophones. So basically, maybe our child rape is the stubbed toes of what suffering was going to be before God got rid of perpetually flatulent mouth scabies whose farts turn babies inside out.

That was a long way to say, though I love arguments against the existence of God, this is not a good one.

@JeffMurray I might not be following your argument but as I see it, "all-powerful" implies that God could create a universe with zero suffering. That he loves us implies that he would not want to see us suffer. As I read your argument, it seems to imply that a universe with no suffering at all could not be created by an all-powerful deity. Am I misunderstanding you?

I recognize it's not the strongest argument against God's existence but I can't see how a god with the traits attributed to the Christian god--omni-benevolent, omnipotent, and omniscient--is possible. If a god exists, it has to be lacking at least one of those traits.

@mjwood No, you are absolutely correct. While I don't believe this to be the strongest argument that points out the contradictory nature of the supposed attributes of the Christian conception of God, (as you stated) it would classify as one of them. (To be clear, though, I don't believe this is an argument against the existence of God per se, just an argument against the ascribed powers.) I think the subjective nature of the words 'suffering' and 'evil' are probably what weaken it the most. A very well known, truly awful "mother" got a raging lady boner for human suffering and thought it was a good thing.

That said, in the entirety of human experience, whatever bounds you place on it, there will be a worst thing and a best thing, so it is impossible to eliminate the all of the worst things without eliminating all but one thing which I guess may be consciousness without any change or input whatsoever? But then you think, why wouldn't God want us to experience awesome stuff until you realize that something can only be awesome in contrast to less awesome things which would then, by default, be the suffering you want eliminated.

@Leslie00 I'm glad you're reaching out here, but it sounds like you may want to talk to a professional. I don't know your life but I'd be very surprised if things are as bad as they appear to you right now; even if they are, they can get better. Getting help is worth the effort even if it doesn't seem so at the moment.

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