Same here

I as well.

Quite correct…and beautifully succinct and to the point!

@beb12 That idiotic ideology is defined as liberal logic.LMAO

I agree Harry. And the fact that Israel helps keeps the radical Islamic idiots in Iran in check is the reason I support them.

Gay bashing sounds exactly like what Islam supports on a daily basis . Bashing in the head to kill you I mean. not verbally bashing gays like Christians do LOL

@HarrySlick Google "curbing".

Correct it’s absurd to think otherwise

In all fairness Islam is about 600 years younger than Christianity, and if you look at what Christians were doing 600 years ago, it could easily be compared to what Muslims are doing today, and Muslims would probably come out as looking to be more peaceful. Granted both religions are more than just a bit dysfunctional though, and at different times have both committed long lists of atrocities in the name of god. A case can be made to prove either one as being the worst, depending on what time period you cherry pick from history.

Let's not take sides about which religion is better or worse. Instead, lets hold fast to the idea that any religion which holds with the idea of super natural beings and/or gods is harmful and destructive, and not give a pass to any of them.

In all fairness the past is not the present in regards to the archaic beliefs and brutally of Islam compared to present day Christianity

@snytiger6 That's too much fairness. Christianity had a capacity to moderate which Islam lacks because the Qur'an is a fundamentally different kind of book which presents itself as the direct word of God (via an angel, a human prophet and some human scribes). The Bible is a bunch of books about God which are not the word of God, so they don't carry anything like the same strength of fake authority.

Radical Islam is the biggest threat to world piece today.

@snytiger6 You don’t wish to take sides on which religion is worse ,are you delusional? There are 13 countries that follow Islamic law where being an atheist is punishable by death !

Indeed, rather than teaching its followers to be good stewards of the natural world, Christianity teaches them they are entitled to exercise dominion over it. This malignant attitude may very well prove to be our undoing: the destruction of not only our civilization but also our species (and many, many others).

I think you are going too far with your "infinitely worse" comment and that displays a lack of objectivity. Don't be fooled by the news which only follows the worst of the worst and never seems to mention that someone is a Christian when an evil act is performed. Personally, I think the worst of what we see of Islam is more due to the considerable cultural differences in the Mideast. I have experienced far more agressiveness and hostility in America from Christians than I have from Muslims. Why do you suppose that is?

@Heraclitus I agree with you there totally. The times I have visited the US and come across religious people have been far more frightening then when visiting Islamic countries.

@Jolanta My husband and I were planning to retire to Malaysia which is a Muslim country, sadly he died before we could put our plans into effect. We loved everything about Malaysia, the people were friendly and we felt very safe there. That does not mean that Islam is a friendly and tolerant religion, just that the form of Islam practiced in Malaysia was not as repressive and restrictive as some orher Muslim countries with a different interpretation of Islam. In many Islamic countries it is forbidden by pain of death to leave the religion, and homosexuality and adultery are punishable by death.(that last one only applies to women), and of course women cannot drive or travel without the permission of male relatives in Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states. That doesn’t mean that I think that the fundamentalist Christian sects and the Evangelicals in the USA aren’t frightening, especially as they seem to be on the rise, but not in the same way as Islam in its most extreme form.

@Heraclitus Why would you believe me to have no objectivity, I’m quite able to be objective..I have no lingering attachment to Christianity as I’ve never had a religion and I have travelled extensively. I am not making my judgement based on any personal feeling of threat from either Islam or Christianity..nor any love of either of them. I’m purely taking an objective viewpoint from what I believe is the more harmful to humanity in general in the 21st century. I can’t emphasise enough that I’m talking about degrees of harm and calculating which of them is more harmful and dangerous in their various extreme and fanatical forms. Neither of them are beneficial or benign.

@Jolanta Did you happen to mention that you were an atheist to a citizen and devout follower of Islam when you visited an Islamic country where they execute people for.being an atheist. I don’t recall Christians sentencing an atheist to death in the US do you. Oh but they are friendly to children that they marry (which islamic law permits) until they rape them .

@biguy12

@biguy12 Actually, some I did and some I did not. All of them respected my opinion. None of them threatened me in any way. Maybe you are not aware but not all Islamic countries execute people because they are atheists and especially not if you are not a citizen of that country.

@Marionville Never said that you had no objectivity at all. Just that your 'infinitely worse" statement was over the top and that hyperbole lacks objectivity. Don't you agree? If you wish to say that the Muslim radicals of today are worse than the Christian radicals of today, I won't argue with that, but it hasn't always been the case. If you don't believe me about your exaggeration, and my personal experience to the contrary, then just read the other comments on this page.

@Heraclitus Ok…I’ll accept my choice of infinitely may have been verging on hyperbolic…In that case I’ll substitute “infinitely worse “ with “much worse” which in no way changes my opinion that I think Islam is more harmful in our current world than Christianity. It’s just a matter of degrees of how much, and which words I choose to use to express it…and that strays into the realm of semantics I think .

I have read your other remarks on this page and they in no way change my views on the subject. It is just our own opinions from our own personal observations and perspectives that colour our views on this subject and I reserve the right to hold mine in the same way that I respect your right to hold yours.

@Marionville OK, fair enough. I just hope you get to know more Muslims in America. They are much nicer. There is a reason they came here and left their own native countries.

@Heraclitus I know plenty of Muslims…I live in the U.K…I have friends who are Muslim. My son lives in Leicester which has the largest Asian population in England. I have already explained that my husband and I intended to make our home in Malaysia after our retirement, we loved the country and its people. Sadly my husband died in 2010 and that ended our dream of retirement on the island of Langkawi. My husband and I traveled extensively In south east Asia and made many Muslim friends in Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia…we have nothing but happy memories and the experience of great hospitality in all of them. Malaysia is an Islamic country, but the type of Islam most people follow there is not threatening to non Muslims . What I’m referring to is the more extreme forms of Islam…the countries where they execute people for apostasy, that restrict human rights and stop women from working outside the home or driving, which don’t allow girls to be educated and force them to marry men more than double their age when they are barely into puberty. I’m not talking about how nice and friendly I find individual Muslims but how fundamentalist Islam is deeply misogynistic and basically wants to drag all of us back into the dark ages.

@Marionville Yes, when you phrase it that way, I agree. Although there was time when Christians behaved in a similar manner and burned people at the stake, sometimes just upon suspicion of heresy, or being a witch. Reading about what Christians did to each other in the name of God during the 30 years war literally turned my stomach.
Guess I missed what you said about Malaysia since it wasn't addressed to me.

@Marionville I concur with your conclusion, which certainly was an objective take on the matter and not emotional-based. Islam is the world's fastest growing religion-
[bbc.com]

Islam is no more peaceful or benevolent than Christianity is, and in particular both are a threat to the secular and LGBT communities.

Yes, Islam did have an age of enlightenment. It was called the Golden Age of Islam and lasted from the 8th to the 13th centuries. Sadly, it did not last, but either did the Western Age of Enlightment, and we are not exactly in a age of enlightenment now.

The Golden Age of Islam refers to a remarkable period of scientific, economic, philosophical, cultural, and scholarly prosperity within Islamic civilization:

Scientific Advancements: During the Golden Age, scholars made significant strides in various fields. They improved the astrolabe, a sophisticated instrument used for navigation and astronomy. Additionally, they explored medicine, mathematics, and the natural sciences, contributing to humanity’s knowledge base.
Cultural Flourishing: Baghdad, the world’s largest city at the time, played a central role. The House of Wisdom, established during the reign of Abbasid caliph Harun al-Rashid, became a hub for scholars from across the Muslim world. They translated classical knowledge from Greek, Persian, and other languages into Arabic and Persian. This cultural exchange fostered intellectual growth and creativity.
Mathematics and Sciences: The Golden Age witnessed remarkable advancements in mathematics. Scholars like al-Khwarizmi laid the foundations for algebra, and Ibn al-Haytham made significant contributions to optics. Their work influenced subsequent generations and left a lasting impact.
Medicine and Astronomy: Innovations in medicine and astronomy were abundant. Ibn Sina (Avicenna), a polymath, wrote influential medical texts. Meanwhile, al-Biruni conducted extensive astronomical observations and calculations.
Economic Prosperity: Trade networks flourished, connecting the Islamic world with Europe, Africa, and Asia. Cities like Cairo, Cordoba, and Baghdad thrived economically, fostering cultural exchange and intellectual vibrancy.

@Heraclitus Interesting. What happened ? islam is certainly not at the forefront of scientific advancement now. Of over 700 Nobel prizes awarded only 15 have been to Muslims and half of them were peace prizes.
The church in Europe never recovered from the reformation and enlightenment so I'm not sure what you mean.
Even the all powerful Roman Catholic church in Ireland is just a shadow of it's former self.

@Moravian Good question. The period is traditionally said to have ended with the collapse of the Abbasid caliphate due to Mongol invasions and the Siege of Baghdad in 1258. Unfortunately, civilization is rather fragile and rather difficult to get back once you have lost it. Nostalgia for the past is usually a bad sign. The radicals of Islam seem to want to go back to the 7th century. The Roman Catholic Church still wears the old medieval robes and performs medieval rituals. Not sure what you think that I said about the Church of Europe. I don't think I said anything about it. However, the enduring nostalgia to make America "great again" has me concerned.

@Heraclitus It was just your comment that we are not now in an age of enlightenment. The rise of "populism" is worrying but I see signs of hope with demonstrations against the government in Hungary and Erdogan appears to be losing a bit of power in Turkey.
In my opinion many of the ills in the world are down to US imperialism and I can't see that changing much.

I say the same. Islam in our current world is infinitely worse and more harmful to humanity than Christianity. It’s by rational analysis I come that conclusion…both are harmful, but by degrees Islam is worse. I am an atheist, and a lifelong one at that!

No. I do not agree with Dawkins, but I can not agree with that either. We are not talking about people, who are pretty much good and a little bad, the world around, but about systems of thought. And you certainly can say that some systems are better than others, or you may as well say that for example, my parents were fascists, therefore there is no point in me changing. Or even, that if I am asked how many beans in a jar, that making a guess is just as good as taking them out and counting them.

Claiming that blacks are a worse race would be wrong, in part because we know there are no races, or at least no difference between them. But that is not the case with systems of thought, counting really is much better than guessing.

@Marionville why are you one of the few rational ones here.in regards to this

@Marionville Yeah, when was the last time a Muslim nation went on a crusade in a Christian nation? Because Christian nations have been crusading through the Muslim world for centuries and are waging war on numerous Muslim nations as I type. You're just a Christian who has been inculcated with Christian hate for Muslims. Like Mr Dawkins.

@Marionville, @Fernapple News flash. Islam and Christianity are the same religion. They're both equally drenched in blood, though mostly Muslim blood the past century. If you think they are different, you're not an atheist, you're a Christian apologist pretending to be an atheist. Like Mr Dawkins.

@Druvius Except that as I already said in my comment above, Richard Dawkins says Christianity is "fundamentally decent," but Islam "is not" -- Friendly ... I think that Christianity is perhaps the worse of the two. So how you get me to be a Christian apologist is hard to see.

Plus, no Christianity and Islam are not the same religion, they are not even single religions. No two thought systems are ever the same, even between two believers in the same religion, and a huge part of that drenching of blood occurred over the last two thousand years occurred not even between Christianity and Islam or those and other religions but between factions within them.

@Druvius Sorry, but I have never been a Christian, and evidently you don’t read my replies or just choose to ignore my words, preferring to label me as something I’m not. No point in any futher discourse then is there?

I basically agree with your statement. I think the differences have more to do with the differences in culture and civilizations. However, I am not so sure that Christianity has evolved all that much in the last 5 centuries, it is just that Western Civilizations has. In fact, in my experience Christianity is significantly less "Christian" and more aggressive than when I was a child which actually be reflective of a decline in Western Civilization more than the religion itself.

@Heraclitus I agree for the most part. I am reluctant to say Christianity has evolved, but I'll suggest a few ways. We don't see witch burning much, slavery is largely condemned, not too many pogroms lately, less white mans burden style colonialism, fewer Christian-on-Christian wars, slightly more tolerance for science, women, LBGTQ, and for other religions. These have been baby-steps in the right direction, but quickly cast aside if they feel empowered to do so...

@racocn8 Yes, I agree with that, but have we evolved because of or in spite of Christianity? Most of the things you name are in spite of, not because of, what the bible says.

@Heraclitus Non-Christians have evolved for many reasons, but there's the advent of science which conveyed useful truths not in the Bible. Technology which enabled large cities and the experience of meeting many people of differing customs.

Christians have evolved very little, and constantly yearn to recover the power they've lost, mostly the power to abuse and thus express their sexual repression and cognitive dissonance. Most Christians remain mired in their secret hatred of others and of themselves. Unredeemable psychotics have no net positive value to society and are only physically human.