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LINK The War Was Won Before Hiroshima—And the Generals Who Dropped the Bomb Knew It | The Nation

The record is quite clear: From the perspective of an overwhelming number of key contemporary leaders in the US military, the dropping of atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was not a matter of military necessity. American intelligence had broken the Japanese codes, knew the Japanese government was trying to negotiate surrender through Moscow, and had long advised that the expected early August Russian declaration of war, along with assurances that Japan’s Emperor would be allowed to stay as a powerless figurehead, would bring surrender long before the first step in a November US invasion, three months later, could begin.

Interesting, eh? Especially when you consider how the US is adamant about policing the rest of the world in regards to their nuclear facilities.

altschmerz 9 Aug 11
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Admittedly, I skimmed over the opening parts of this article until I saw the familiar tenor -- which seems to be built on the American guilty conscience for just about everything. At no point did I see any reference to decades of expansionist fascist government in Japan, which at least by the early 1920s included spying on American and British bases and installations, "acquiring" plans of their weapons, and 1931 led the invasion of Manchuria, then the rapes of Nanking and Shanghai c.1937... And even this late stage of bushido warlordism it was four years before America could be stirred by Pearl Harbor to even contemplate war. By 1945 the Japanese emperor and govt were urging the mass of their population from Okinawa to Hokkaido to commit suicide before falling into the hands of the white devils -- and thousands on Okinawa did before even talking to US soldiers: surrender was not an option.

Yes, here in New Zealand we (even those of us who are US-born) wonder at the US obsession with guns, its 800 military bases, the sheer immenseness of the budgets supporting the military-industrial complex, & etc (to supplement the otherwise unfunded UN). But none of this switch to militarism applied before WWII. Let's at least pretend to look at both sides?

Garbonza Level 6 Aug 11, 2019

In your citing of history, you neglected the starting point of US-Japan conflict. Admiral Perry terrorizing Edo harbor (now Tokyo) by threatening to bombard it with modern US gunships in 1853. This terror threat by the US led to Japan becoming similarly militaristic and imperialist as a defense to avoid what had previous befell China and India.

@Krish55 OK, so you're a history teacher -- got to respect that. But it's a pretty long bow you're drawing in terms of a direct line from 1853. Why not back to the big powers (Portuguese, Dutch, British?) a century or more before that, when some of them actually did bombard Japan? I don't believe self-seeking (not all) politicians have memories that long or motives deeper than how can I gain more power? As I recall my blockbuster movies, Japan unequivocally took the side of other imperialist powers in divvying up China before the 1900 Boxer "Rebellion". I would favor the line that Japan's victory over Russia in 1905 led to an overwhelming nationalist movement with its own momentum that hoodwinked its own people. Did the Japanese proposal to "negotiate" through Russia involve an offer of unconditional surrender, or just more sophistry as per pre-Pearl Harbor?

@Krish55, @altschmerz It seems to me a partizan article that takes a stance and selects its data accordingly to fulfill an argument. The History Channel is full of documentaries arguing the other side, just more believably.

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