Ah, the heretic accusation...

The coup in 2014? Carried out by the likes of our Jan 6 thugs?

True, but in the entire world, Ukraine is the only country with dedicated Nazi battalions!

@Krish55 I don't care if they paint Hitler mustaches under their noses with an eyebrow pencil while wearing Russian peasant garb assuming that they are fighting as Ukraines in defense of their country.

@anglophone My point exactly. There is no possible justification.

@MizJ After the US instigated coup of 2014, they started killing their own people - the Russian speakers of Ukraine. This has been going on for years before the invasion.

@Krish55 And your point is?

@anglophone The fundamental causes of the war are deeper than we are being led to believe.

@Krish55 They always are. That is still not justification for entering a sovereign nation with military personnel.

@Krish55 So what?

@MizJ Precisely. /@Krish55

@Krish55 And the Russian bombs are smart enough to not kill Russian speakers?! hmmm

@anglophone The main point is that US bears responsibility for the fundamental, deeper causes of the war. Here is a distinguised US PoliSci prof:

@Krish55 I am certain that the US has caused much harm in the world. However believing that that harm justifies the slaughter of civilians, hospitals, etc. is not going to happen. This is the the Twenty First century C.E. and there are diplomatic options available to any country/leader that wishes to pursue them and not act like a murderous barbarian.

@MizJ
He is not talking about the US wars but about in 2014 and subsequent proposal to expand NATO. it's not an either/or. There can be more than one guilty party. Putin is guilty of being the immediate cause of the war, while the US is guilty of being the fundmental cause of the war.

We who are religous skeptics should be able to embrace nuance and . We should recognize shades of gray than insist on a simple, religious black-and-white .

Please take a look at the Russell Brand video I just posted.

@Krish55 I wasn't talking about only wars that the US was involved in, the harm that the US has done goes much further than that, some intentional, some the by-product of policies, failed diplomacy, and more. I am far from naive in that regard. My point was that there is ZERO justification for intentionally bombing apartment complexes, hospitals, etc. And yes, the US is also guilty, two wrongs don't make a right.

@Krish55 How does you posting that video address my "So what?" of you? Why are you choosing that particular "Special Military Operation"?

@MizJ I agree that two wrongs don't make a right. What I'm doing is showing the full context behind the invasion and the role the US has played both in creating conflict within Ukraine and conflict between Ukraine and Russia.

@Krish55 You have failed to address any of my points which makes this conversation tedious for me. This will be my last response to you.

Ah, the Heresy accusation described above...