Agnostic.com
6 12

Copied from a friend’s FB wall:

Meanwhile, Donald Trump has ascended to the U.S. presidency. He is not just a temporary detour or aberration in an otherwise healthy democracy, an alien creature from the planet Vulgar for whom our only hope is the laser death ray of a special counsel investigation. In fact, the ascendancy of Trump to the White House is a stark indication of just how deep society’s malaise has become. There is a virus lurking in this so-called democratic system, one that under new blows and future crises could turn the body politic into a reeking, inflamed pustule of undisguised authoritarianism, barbarism far worse than anything presently existing. The end game threat is open fascism, dressed in an American uniform.

[...]

All the diffuse energy that’s wasted strategizing how to replace this Republican with that Democrat, this right-wing ideologue with that pragmatic liberal, amounts to not much more than panicked running bow to stern and back on a sinking ship. What happens if the Democrats win a Congressional majority in the 2018 mid-term elections? Or Trump is gone from the presidency after 2020 (or sooner)? Then what? Won’t establishment liberals settle in once again to placid grumbling about living in a country with the highest child poverty rate among the world’s richest nations? Won’t Democrats and Republicans resume their pretend squabbles just like the “good old days” when a Bush, Clinton, or Obama occupied the White House, while doing nothing about the vast, increasing concentration of oligarchic wealth and power? Won’t both major parties loyally vote for massive military expenditures, year after year and war after war?

[...]

Today, there is a great need for a mass socialist party in the United States. Not just a party interested in implementing reforms for a kinder, gentler capitalism, by jockeying for partisan influence within Congress, but an independent party that strives to be a grassroots beacon for popular social struggles, an alternative pole of attraction for mass organizing and social protest. We need an alternative not only to Republicans, but to a Democratic Party whose internal “deep state” is firmly welded to elite money and corporate power. Instead, we need political vision for another way forward, for an end to the capitalistic profit-madness that has left the planet wallowing in violence, inequality, and poverty.

Mark Harris
"No One Is Coming to Save Us, Except Ourselves"

altschmerz 9 Mar 17
Share
You must be a member of this group before commenting. Join Group

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

6 comments

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

0

Well said ! Written in a concise, yet enjoyable, hopeful ,thought provoking style.

jtnewman Level 4 Mar 22, 2019
1

Certainly an interesting conversation. Free Market Capitalism vs. Mother State Socialism seems to be the way the current political season is taking shape. And, as one writer pointed out, this divide is more in the interest of some other nations rather than our own.
Those proposing some form of socialism need to recast the term socialism - if it is not to late. Socialism is to easily tied to Communism and to the failed economic systems such as is currently playing out in Venezuela. The Nordic countries, which have proven the worth of a regulated capitalistic systems that focused on the whole rather than few, do not redeem socialism as it is becoming defined. So dropping the term socialism for something like "Inclusive Capitalism" might turn the political conversation into one more difficult to associate with the bogey man of socialism.

It may be that a third party is needed to break through the current pandering to monied interests by both of the established parties. But there is no impetus to form another major party by voters today. There are issues that may stir the younger voters to become dissatisfied with the current political parties that would provide opportunities for the development of another / other political party(ies). But few leaders have surfaced with the organizing acumen to build such a party or parties.

The struggle for our Republic may be at a tipping point. Are we going to march down the path to authoritarianism or the path laid out by our founders. We have seen our courts stacked with judges who support a unified Presidency. We have seen a Congress willing to surrender it's independents to the Administrative branch. We have heard the current President praise our adversaries and demean our allies. He sows division in our nation while proclaiming to be a Nationalist and beating the drum of white privilege. And his followers cheer.

I don't know where this will end. But it seems that if we pursue a capitalism vs socialism political argument it will add to a division that we can not afford.

ArthurK Level 6 Mar 17, 2019

@Closeted It might be possible for a 3rd party to arise out of one of the youth movements. We have seen young folks coalesces around the issues of gun control and climate change. And money might not play the same role in maintaining the enthusiasm. Although movements like the Occupy have not lasted as life catches up with the protesters.
The term "Socialism", what ever it is preceeded by, is to easily manipulated. We, as a country, have a long standing association of Socialism with Communism. This is particularly true among the generation who lived through the cold war - and they vote. But the term is in use by progressives and it is most likely to late to change it now.

Do you think a name change mid-stream would make a difference? People need to grow up and use their noggin. Fear is their enemy and their enemy is based on their ignorance. Perhaps they can be educated. A rose by any other name would still smell as sweet.

@Closeted the Green Party’s policies were aligned with Bernie in 2016. Different name and yet standing for virtually the same thing. Now the Dems will call themselves progressive all the while taking from Bernie’s platform of 2016. There is a problem, however, they are not consistent nor do they have his history for pushing in this direction. The noobs have come to roost by jumping on the democratic socialist bandwagon under the other name. In 2016 he was crazy Bernie. I guess he is not so crazy. I think the others are posers. ✌?✊?

@Closeted thank him indeed. Ain’t nothing like the real thing, baby...#BernieOrBust ✊?✌?

1

I agree that is why I voted for Jill i2016

1

!Mass Conditioning! Here in the US, we are essentially the only mass population unwilling to any longer stand up against the oligarchs. Vietnam. "We have kicked the Vietnam syndrome"--- a quote from GHW Bush as he successfully entered and left Iraq after an illegally waged war, that drew no concern to the public. While people around the world go into the streets and protest as their governments reach into certain degrees of austerity and crimes on its people. The outcomes in those countries are often horrific, we live in fear of that. Conditioning. That's because we are often never shown or told about protest in other areas where it may be beneficial to those people. They are today going on around the world at a rate never known to man kind. Controlled Conditioning, via the MSM. They, the MSM, also rarely speak of protest here in the US anymore either. You probably see them being planed on your social media often. But do you ever hear your forth estate giving notice of them?

Problem is they are all secular protest for this or that, never really reaching into substance of our problems as a whole. Because we have been condition to a point we no longer are able to connect all the issues that are problematic to us to a core entity. And our problems are indeed due to a singular entity. And today our main problem is the death of our home. The home of all mankind. And if you take the time to really think this out, this problem, the death of our planet as a source of life, goes back to only that singular entity. All the issues we are dealing with today have played a part in some way to creating the collapse of an ecosystem all life depends on. The functioning of this ecological unit, and of society, have been purposely conditioned to benefit a very few. Those few are willing to sacrifice any and all of us to reach the levels of riches and power in which they greed over.

The chain of MSM to intelligence agencies, to the establishment politicians, to corporations, to the oligarchs/deep state, successfully waged a program of perception management over the westernized world decades ago to reach this conditioning that holds most of the worlds population at bay. The rest of the world has been its victims in the manor of wars. To steal their resources, make slaves of, and to stop any country of producing a successful socialist government. A society that benefits all its countrymen will not be tolerated for the world to see. !Venezuela! The newest target of the westernized world. That chain was developed for the purpose of conditioning mass populations into a sense of slavery. The slaves in the westernized world just happen to live more comfortable and have more than those who have brunt the wars where we needed their resources live. But conditioned slaves we are none the less.

What will it take for us in the US, anyways, to see this whole picture? For those trapped in the corrupt 2 party establishment voting system that will never really allow you to produce candidates in any of our governments who hold you, our society, and our planet as a concern. With roughly 52% of our population still playing their game within their system, we have no chance of leaving a living planet behind for our families after us. The planet will be fine without us, able to regenerate. That entity might even survive. But what do we leave behind for our families. Our planet has reached a tipping point. We must act fast!!!

Megacities: Urban Future, the Emerging Complexity - A Pentagon Video

@Closeted, I don't know of the Constitution declaring any amount of parties or rights to parties? Washington was elected President when there were no parties. The founding fathers were of a mindset of having no parties in hopes of avoiding conflicts. Once they were created all hell broke loose. Which is why we are where we are today. The creation of parties is being used against us. Not only against us but from allowing 3rd parties to become prominent enough to bring them down.

McCarthyism was a designed agenda leading us into the first red scare based on deception. The actual agenda to perception management can go back as far as the early 1900's. I have a video of that on the pinned page at "Out Of The Illusion " Group But the CIA began a program around the 50's. Slowly working themselves into the media. Jumping ahead, vastly becoming more evident as the media began to monopolize. Also with Hollywood. This is why we have so many X military and intelligence agents experts on our MSM news shows now. They're there to condition the audience to a managed perception of what the world is and how our politicians want us to believe it is. Venezuela being a prime example right now. The repetitive mode they spin of the lies is designed to trap our population into believing an illusion they need for invasion. It works so well even people who now know Iraq was a lie, they'll now willing to send their families off to be essentially murdered in another war if the government so feels to do so. How many people in our country lost family members in Iraq over a lie do you hear about confronting our government? Fucking none! Does this make sense to you? It sure the hell doesn't to me.

1

True

bobwjr Level 10 Mar 17, 2019
3

Okay, soapbox coming: A huge concern I have, though not my only one, is how much we seem to keep ignoring the massively disruptive role V. Putin has played, and continues to play, in undermining our democracy. I don't disagree with the article, as far as it goes(except the misuse of the claim of a liberal "Deep State," which is utter bullshit), but the problem is more than capitalism vs socialism.
I agree with ToolGuy, the -isms are something of a distraction from the battering ram that has been taken to our society. To be sure, capitalism is corrupt and an obvious setup for the wealthy to exploit to ever further advantage at everyone else's expense, but similar abuses have historically happened in primarily socialist societies as well, where government oligarchy insiders have massively extorted and scimmed off the top for personal gain. There will never in our lifetimes be an end to the tensions between capitalism and socialism. They are not exclusive of each other. They are ideals that exist together within each and every society to differing degrees. In practice they are never "pure." I happen to think the U.S. currently is massively out of balance in favor of capitalism, but correcting that does not mean taking a torch to all things capitalist, as revolutionist pro-socialists would have us do. That would only lead to massive chaos and suffering that revolution always creates, after which opportunists are guaranteed to swoop in and enrich themselves at the expense of the masses and still oppress people. It means instead building socialist projects and protections (social safety net) and fighting hard to build a more caring society. (Obviously I support the evolutionary approach a la Scandinavian examples over a revolutionary one.)
In any case, back to Putin. He is a classic and very dangerous USSR style threat. He is not a socialist, like Lenin tried to be. He is a fascist in the mold of Stalin. He shrewdly studies the cultures of every country he aims to disrupt, finds our divisions, and exploits them to sew further divisions and lead us to destroy each other.
Trumpism is a cancer, but a symptom and accelerant of our problems more than the cause. We cannot fix this mess we are in if we are hell bent on ideological purity, e.g. socialism vs capitalism, because that is precisely the type of division Putin has hacked into and fanned the flames of to aid in the implosion of our democracy.

You're still stuck on Putin!?! Ludicrous! If you had at least mentioned Israel, I might have a degree of faith in you. Let this one sink in for a moment. If Russia and Putin are so bad, why do we continue to have a space program with them? We can't even get to space anymore without their help. And their technology to get into space was/is better than ours. Which is one of the reasons we quit blowing our astronauts up trying to get their. Seriously, what are you going to do when Mueller's report comes out, and after over 2 years of independent journalism telling us their was no Russiagate to prove was right all along?

@William_Mary wow, you make absolutely no sense whatsoever.

@MikeInBatonRouge that doesn't surprise me, sadly.

@Closeted Bernie wants the Scandinavian model. Yes, it does utilize both ideologies.

@Closeted you misunderstand my meaning, perhaps. I agree the Scandinavian example is quite positive, William_Mary's derision nothwithstanding (and yes, I realize theirs is still a form of capitalism, albeit one with a healthy infusion of socialist intent). But "tension" was not meant in an entirely negative meaning. I meant the two concepts represent the two ends of a continuum and that there is always "tension" within society over what precise balance to strike. One will never "win" entirely, because pure socialism or pure capitalism can't survive for long in any sizeable society. They'd implode from their own vulverabilities. Both need some counterweight to their own excesses. What irks me is the arrogance of socialist purists who look down on anyone who dares sound a note of caution about their calls for a revolution to sweep away the entire existing system for the promise of an ideal that has at least as of yet never existed successfully. I support an evolutionary approach to correct the most obvious abuses of capitalism, and Scandanavia is the shining example of that....again, derided by William_Mary, who is advocating an alternate reality not based on real facts.

@Closeted are you comparing me to William_Mary? Because I can't find any clarity in those comments; they are muddled. I must have missed the reference to Scandinavia. W_M simply slammed me for "still" worrying about the threat of Putin, as if short attention span were a virtue and not the American Achille's heal that it is.

@Closeted just wait until Trump's hand-picked AG refuses to let the public or Congress see the report.

Write Comment

Recent Visitors 60

Photos 1,871 More

Posted by KilltheskyfairyIt’s the only way…

Posted by KilltheskyfairyIt’s the only way…

Posted by KilltheskyfairyIt’s the only way…

Posted by HippieChick58Donnie thinks he had every right to interfere with the 2020 election

Posted by KilltheskyfairyHappy Labor Day!

Posted by KilltheskyfairyHappy Labor Day!

Posted by KilltheskyfairyHappy Labor Day!

Posted by KilltheskyfairyHappy Labor Day!

Posted by KilltheskyfairyHappy Labor Day!

Posted by KilltheskyfairyHappy Labor Day!

Posted by KilltheskyfairyHappy Labor Day!

Posted by KilltheskyfairyHappy Labor Day!

Posted by KilltheskyfairyHappy Labor Day!

Posted by KilltheskyfairyCorporate greed!

Posted by KilltheskyfairyCorporate greed!

Posted by KilltheskyfairyCorporate greed!

  • Top tags#video #DonaldTrump #politics #satire #world #republicans #hell #humor #government #money #News #comedy #laws #vote #media #truth #god #hope #USA #democrats #children #death #reason #socialist #religion #society #kids #friends #religious #BernieSanders #military #rights #Police #democratic #evidence #policy #fox #book #guns #community #WhiteHouse #Christian #TheTruth #campaign #Texas #florida #progressive #relationship #sex #fear ...

    Members 2,456Top

    Moderator