Whats the purpose of using logic against a belief? Religions do offer certain benefits, like community. Youre not going to win on anything trying to argue. I mainly give my opinion on it when im asked, and honestly those “debates” end up being much more fun and enjoyable rather than raining on someones parade spouting logic when uninvited. So i meh and move on past my facebooks friends crazy god posts, i love them and ill let them come to me when/if they want to. I don't hide what i believe.
And by the way i hope i didnt come across as if im judging, i just want to help save you the unnecessary stress
There really isn't an argument. If this were a reasonable argument, we wouldn't be having it. When beliefs are challenged, they dig in, and become even more defensive. The best thing to do is ask them questions that cause them to think about what they're really saying, and hope that they might someday notice the gaps.
Trying to deconvert believers (because none of them were born that way) is a total waste of time. Why would you? If they have half a brain, they will eventually figure it out for themselves from objective, reality-based analysis. All you can do is be you if you are engaged in conversation/debate. Give factual responses but not with the intention of converting them. We're not on a mission to deconvert, but we should fight to protect our individual rights which are increasingly under attack by the current administration and a soon-to-be stacked SCOTUS.
there is no argument that can change the mind of someone convinced they are right. there are no facts you can show a person , that does not understand and adhere to scientific method. for a religious person to break free of indoctrination, they have to be willing to change their mind based on evidence. they have to be willing and want to learn . you cannot fill a cup that is already full.
I never try to convert anyone, since it isn't my business what they believe. I am happy to have a discussion though. I wouldn't mind converting Trump voters. Many of them think Trump is the second coming. The rabid cultists are beyond reason, but once in a while, I run into one who is starting to have doubts. . As long as a person's religion isn't hurting me, I leave it alone. Now, as far as the Trump followers go, they are often radical evangelistic Christians, who want to overturn Roe v Wade, equal right for women, LBGTQ rights, rights to contraception, rights to privacy and to make America into a theocracy. Since that affects me, I have a dog in this fight.
I have never tried to convert anyone, but overtime, after discussing various aspects of faith, a couple of folks l know came to be nonbelievers. I wasn't trying to change their ideas about faith. It wasn't something l set put to do. It just happened. They would probably have come to these conclusions on there own.
I don’t think theres any one argument that could win over most believers. Delusion and depression are very similar problems in that, you didnt think/reason your way into them so you can't think/reason your way out. Exceptions exist; some of us do reason our way out, but we had to do it for ourselves. You can make great skeptical thinkers’ material available to them but if they don't have the intellectual curiosity or dissatisfaction with their current story to dive in of their own free will, Im afraid its not going to do much good.
I think it’s important to let people know there are alternative, socially accepted and non-religious ways of looking at the world, so when I come across people who choose to publicly discuss their faith by bringing it up I will often say something. But if they don’t indicate they want to continue the debate I will leave it at that.