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Why does this community have to be so harsh?
We non believers have so much going against us in the real world, we should find a way to have each other's backs. We need to find a way to support each other in our daily struggles and this difficult world. Hell in some parts of this world they put you to death for atheism.

I have noticed something lately. I see there is a certain degree of attack and proceed going on. Seems to me that we want to inject our opinion on everything no matter how insensitive our opinion is.
I am not talking about someone who post a link to something you don't agree with or something silly that you want to dispute.
What I am referring to is someone saying that they have an issue with xyz and you instantly go on the attack because xyz is your own fault or something you don't get because you have social anxiety or some other thing. How is that at all helpful? I know often we say things and we don't realize that it comes out a certain way but maybe not saying something might be better than saying boo hooo get off the pity pot.

I have an idea, why don't we try to help each other survive in this world, why don't we have a community of people who care about others in their community. About helping them with good intentions and helpful comments? Novel I know, but it might be worth a stab.

Akfishlady 8 Aug 1
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41 comments

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11

I have learned that two things help me with online sites: 1) scroll past, 2) shut my mouth...I know what you mean, though...some people just need to hear themselves talk no matter what the subject matter...I like to pick my battles, and frankly, I think this site has less battles than most...I hope that your request is heeded...you are correct: we need more support and understanding than negativity and attacks...hang in there!

well said...

10

I agree with you. I always have agreed and advocated for more kindness and thoughtful communication.

I used to get frustrated when so many people would chime in with "Hmmmmm.....I don't ever see that."

Now, I can happily say that I rarely see that activity. The reason for that is that I don't have much tolerance for jerks. If they are a jerk for no other reason than to be a jerk (I'm NOT talking about merely disagreeing or stating an opinion), I block them. No shame about it.

I'm sure that most of the offenders you see doing the same ol' shit have been blocked by me, so I truly don't see much of it anymore. And, if I do -- I know where the block button is.

Screw that "scrolling on by...." stuff. I don't want to see their shit, period.

@Akfishlady I said I agreed with you. ??

@Akfishlady And, now that I think about it, the sooner the jerks show their true colors, the sooner I block them, and the more enjoyable the community is to me. I know it’s not for everybody, but it is a solution.

Very rarely will a person’s way of relating to others change. Yours is about the 15th post about this very same behavior, including one that I wrote a long time ago. Hence, I choose to block and not see it.

9

I'm in. We all complain the world isn't a very nice place, but all it takes is a little kindness and compassion and hey presto, it's a bit better.

Jnei Level 8 Aug 1, 2018
8

Some people are just assholes. They have internet courage. I have given opinions on here only to be attacked when all I do is talk about the issue.

Can confirm.

7

Totally agree we are a community and should support each other - my singles group supports its members. Just recently some of my members did a fundraiser and were attacked by another member. I expressed my displeasure with this member-she blocked me and others and may have left the site. I did not remove her. I was upset she attacked and made accusations to make my members feel uncomfortable. We are a family and treat our members as such.

6

I have definitely trolled a couple people haha, sometimes I just can't resist being a smartass. mostly to MRA/Trump types so using the term “people” loosely but still... I try to release that kinda angst slowly in small batches when I feel like theres a growing crop of ignorant old farts who Id prefer not to see that havent got the memo to avoid me yet. Then ill say something like “women of color should rise up and slay the 1% and sell their children into slavery.” ? n get the miserable bastards to save us both some time by blocking me. Im really only joking about the last part of that btw. But i digress, unless someone said something super ignorant, misinformed or judgy I tend not to ruffle my feathers though, and even then Id say I overlook or block 2/3 of em.

Ive had many long form conversations with people who either changed their mind or remained calm and rational enough to change my mind, or both of us respectfully agree to disagree, or one person just doesnt care enough to need the last word and things just peter out. The rather high percentages of debates that go that way is impressive to me. I don't think we’re more combative or defensive than the average crowd. If youre a conservative that hasnt blocked me yet, Im impressed by your thick skin.

But I also agree with you that we need to foster a more proactive love for each other in the community, and an enthusiasm for reaching out n seeing how each other is doing. Thats one of the few psychological benefits the church goers have over most of us. It does feel good to all assemble in a place where you know every person you walk up to will enthusiastically greet you and everyone has a vibe of being psyched up and rooting for each other in an ecstatic way. A good church community at least does that for each other and I agree; we should too.

6

I've not been here all that long.
But I can say that just about every one That I have got a reply or a comment from has been rather nice.
Even when we might disagree we are civil.
I've really only met one person here that was rather rude.
But otherwise, this is the only place I've really felt comfortable opening up and sharing what's on my mind.
It's like my new home.

6

I've been savaged for being tolerant. Can't deal. Shutting up about my goal of indiscriminate, unlimited compassionate loving-kindness. I'll take my open heart elsewhere--somewhere I can converse on the love vibe without arousing hatred in others. I'm not strong enough to deal with catalyzing that kind of negativity. Sorry, not sorry.
[m.phys.org]

No - please stay and contribute your voice of reason. I have had comments around me that ignore my pleas for kindness. We need to continue holding the light of reason.

@poetdi56 I'm only keeping my bodhicitta in reserve--my intellect and sarcasm are staying right here! 😉

@stinkeye_a YAY!!! I would miss you!

@Akfishlady Big thanks, sistah. Much happy. So love. 😀

@poetdi56 😀 that's awful nice to hear, TYVM

6

To tolerate hate is to support it

5

I noticed this too, and agree a more communal attitude would help. But atheists do tend to be independent thinkers, instilling it may be like trying to herd cats.

5

Welcome to the internet

5

I keep seeing how quickly people I've made friends with here run to support their friends in times of trouble. It's way better then "Thoughts and Prayers".

There is definitely some back and forth on the boards - and sometimes there are trolls (but they get removed pretty quickly).

If you report the haters who break the site rules - they will get removed. Blocking protects you - reporting protects all of us.

I'm good with people having their own opinions if it doesn't turn to hate or name calling.

@Akfishlady He hasn't made a post lately? (last few days).

You can PM me if you think there is something I should see. I'm cool with that.

5

"An asshole do not stop being an asshole because stop believing in god. Hell, the aparent lack of believe is like cocaine, intensify the asshole personality." Hector said. I am with you, but you know that.

4

I’ve had a few negative reactions a here. Mostly dealing with politics. Which I normally completely avoid talking about because suddenly everyone has a degree in political science when all they are really doing is regurgitating what they saw on the news or on Facebook.

However, I concur. There are some toxic people here who should just be reported when they go on an aggressive attack. Disagreements are commons we all have them. However, when you start going off topic, threatening, or belittling someone because of their beliefs, you best belief I’m going to report them and seize all future communication with that person.

Too many people just let it go. If the community gets a little more proactive in reporting these toxic people, perhaps we could have a more pleasant community.

Erm side note here. Being informed about and involved in politics is not something reserved for those with degrees in political science, it is a duty of every citizen. Thats the only way democracy really works and the whole "I don't get into politics" bit drives me mad. That's dereliction of duty as a US citizen. Politics affects literally everything about our lives and if we don't pay attention and stay involved the whole system falls apart( kind of like we've seen happen in the last couple decades)

@OpposingOpposum I absolutely agree with you.

4

I've put a lot of thought into this since reading the post earlier today. I think that it's human nature for some people to just be jerks. Let me elaborate:

I used to think that it was just the overly-religious people who treated others poorly when they disagreed with someone. But there are a few shining examples of how (christians in particular) should behave, and I've been honored to know many of them. As I grew older, I joined the pagan community, and discovered that there was that 'militant' streak there as well. I never understood it, because in my view, they were acting as bad (if not worse) than the very people they thought they were better than. (Yes, that sentence structure hurts my head as well).

Sadly, I see the same level of 'militancy' in the Atheist/Agnostic community. That same inability to 'live and let live', mixed with some degree of arrogance and presumed superiority (we know something they don't). But it is a thread that seems to weave throughout all communities, races, religions, and even lack of religions.

It seems fewer and fewer people are able to just be kind, able to listen to hear and not just to respond, or able to empathize; but I don't believe that to be true. It only seems that way because the squeaky wheels get the most attention, while the rest of us either don't know what to say, or don't want to get involved (for whatever cornucopia of personal reasons).

Maybe we should be more vocal in our kindness, even when faced with those who are not exactly showing the best of themselves. Yes, it may make us a target too, but that quiet voice of love, compassion and empathy just needs a little more volume to be heard.

@Akfishlady I have lived for fifty seven years. Oftentimes, it doesn't pay to be kind. Most people don't deserve it.

I don't think I am better than anyone. I do think I'm more reasonable, maybe even smarter, then people who believe in fairy tales.

@ReadyforaChange - respectfully, whether or not they deserve kindness isn't the point. For me, it's whether or not I want other people's disagreeableness to make a change within me that I don't want.
It's like drinking poison and expecting someone else to die. Kindness to others is, at the very least, a better option for yourself.

@DerekD I agree with what you're saying...very emotionally mature. Guess I have been screwed over way too many times. I want to be more like you...I do try. It just gets harder every damn year.

@ReadyforaChange you will be fine, my friend. Just do the best you can. You are allowed to have times where you can't (XYZ).
Just be true to yourself 🙂

4

Spoken like a true level 8 er... 🙂

4

It is pretty simple for me. If a person is pro Trump, pro gun, against the legalization of pot, or into bashing the other gender, l will not hold back in my attack period. I will let them respond and then block them. I looked it up, and l have blocked 63 people. I am sure there will be more. I have been blocked by l don't know how many and l don't care. I blocked 2 this morning after telling them what l thought of them after their ignorant remarks about immigration and the treatment of those children. I will not be nice to these folks.To ignore them is tolerating their ideas. Shame on you if you do.

And I disagree - because at some point we'll all have to work towards something better.

No I won't tolerate the out and out hate.
I don't particularly like it from the folks who can't stand Trump either.

I was on that path to just spewing every single time I saw him - and realized it was just making me a more toxic person.

But I do keep trying to puzzle out how there is such a difference of opinion?
And whether we will all see a path forward from here. Because obviously it must change.

I guess I feel if I insulate myself from the opposite view it won't be entirely healthy either? We need to know that people think differently from ourselves.

It's one of the reasons I value this site. We talk to people from all over the globe - and to people in parts of America that are very different from my own.

@RavenCT There are opinions and there is stupid. You can't fix stupid. I don't tolerate stupid. The problem with stupid people is they don't know they are stupid because they are stupid. Look at the audience at a Trump rally. I wish l could be as tolerant as you, but l can't anymore.

@Sticks48 It's really not tolerance it's fascination. And the only way I can pick an action to take is with knowledge.

Trust me six months ago I had no tolerance - then I realized some of those supporters are just confused and had bad input.
Getting out of this hole is going to take work.

I do have one friend I let myself complain to. We pretty much roast 45 and then we feel better. (For a while anyway).

@Sticks48, @Akfishlady One of the attacks was by a new person who has since been removed from the site. I presume a troll though it still does damage to the original poster.

I'm not sure what the second one was about? There has been a real flurry of Dumpster Fires in the past several days. And I'm beginning to lose track.

I think most of our members will defend the others. And be kind.

I know I reported the crap out that jerk.
I reported it - I PMd SiteSupport and I told the member that the guy was a jerk. (And told the jerk to read the site rules which do not allow hate speech). Sometimes I wonder if a 10 yo wanders on? Granted they're escorted off pretty darn fast.

I am concerned that someone approved his post. He was only level 2. Which means we have an upper level person with no filter.

I think if we keep doing "us" and we're kind with each other? We'll be good.

We can't be a "safe place" but we can know we have a core of members who will always have our backs!

@Akfishlady l agree.

@Akfishlady I have seen this very thing happen over the last couple of days..we may have witnessed the same event...I was horrified at how this person was treated..so unreservedly cruel..for absolutely no good reason. Nasty business.

@Akfishlady Yes in a Mental health or Health group there is no need for negativity. People post to get help or information. Or just to know others have felt what they are feeling.

Well unless someone is spouting dangerous woo. Then they might get a dope slap. 😉

@Sticks48 I truly hate to say I agree with you , but I do . Never-the-less being rude to the stupid doesn't make them any better , or smarter . Try not to let them drag you down to their level . They have stated their opinion and you have stated yours . If they're constantly in this state , after that , I would give strong consideration to cutting them out of my life .

@Cast1es l block them. I'm no genius, so when someone is not as smart as l am, l know they are hopelessly stupid and that won't change , so l won't hang with them for very long. ☺

Hit 1 out of 4, damn. I'm pro gun.

I guess you can you throw insults at me about not caring about children, then block me.

😀

@JeffB There is nothing better than a self -admitted douchebag. You simply support my argument about the stupid. Thank you for your support. ?

@Sticks48 I'm glad I can fit your percolated narrative. Enjoy your bubble.

4

Because a smooth sea never made a skilled sailor.

There are times to be supportive but there are also times to be critical. I'll be honest I can definitely be considered harsh with some of my comments. I will say that I see much more support on this site than you seem to see.

The Spartans were one of the toughest and strongest military forces that has ever existed, and they threw physically unworthy children off a cliff. They had young boys taken from their families at early ages to train, encouraged bullying and fights, put them on public display naked to be mocked for their body, and told them as soldiers to come back victorious or dead. I'm not condoning any of that, but it is evidence that strength comes from struggle and I'd rather be strong than consoled.

But we happy few are the Spartans..are we not..and the Persians the great unwashed..those we perceive as our persecutors ..the as yet unenlightened..do we really need to filter out the weaker..the more sensitive..the more empathetic..?? Maybe they are the best of us..they are a counterpoint to narrow insensitive bullish thinking..that the religious inflict on us all.

Yes the Spartans were a tight knit warrior people that mocked and ridiculed anything that didn't meet their standards...but what happened to them in the end?

Let's be Athenians instead..who loved reason, laughter, songs, dance, poetry, drama..and life!...and didn't take every opportunity to kill each other..??

And sometimes the bullies , even though they started with an advantage because they choose to attack the younger , the smaller , the weaker than themselves ones , forget that they too are changing and growing . Sometimes the bullies are destroyed by those they used to bully .

@Hitchens I think we're getting a little too deep into the analogy at this point but I feel the need to point out that Athens actually loved Sparta and thought of it as the pinnacle of society.

@Akfishlady I think you and I may be coming here for different reasons and that may be a point of contention. I don't come here to be supported or to be involved in a community. I enjoy discussing a variety of different topics with more-or-less like-minded individuals especially ones that can cut out faith based causation. However in those discussions I'm often on the opposite side of a topic, as I rarely need to join a discussion where we all agree. I don't personally see someone who disagrees with me on a topic to be an enemy or attacking me personally and normally don't see people on this site being insensitive just for the sake of it. I see people that are passionate about a stance they have found themselves on and more often than not the path to realization of an incorrect but passionate opinion is harsh as there is no other path.

Most of us here agree that there is no god, but that's right about where our similarities end. Some people here adamantly refuse to acknowlege that I can be an "atheist" as they claim I must be "agnostic" at best. So even our thoughts on the lack of existence on a deity are contested and that is the most basic tenet of our unity. Personally I think that if you're looking for a more supportive community, you may want to avoid the internet entirely.

@mattersauce

Yes it was a juvenile analogy..but loving the classics and having visited Greece so much I had to run with your allusion to Spartan strength coming from struggle.

But since you mentioned it..The Spartans and the Athenians factually despised each other in so many ways, that it is difficult to explain..I'm not just referring to the two great Peloponnesian Wars fought between them..but they openly despised and ridiculed each other's politics and culture.

@Hitchens Well then I'm probably out of my league going much deeper into it. I just having a passing interest in Sparta after reading "Gates of Fire" years ago on the Battle of Thermopylae and learned at some point about "lacanophelia" which was said to be love of the Spartan way of life outside Sparta and even amongst the Athenians.

@mattersauce

Lacanophelia refers to the Laconians..the given name to the population of the greater Spartan territory...yes there were definately Athenians (a couple of prominent ones) that expressed an admiration for certain Spartan achievements..but generally they might as well have been Sunni and Shia in that they were similar in ways..but their differences and mutual hatred and competitive nature ended in mutual destruction. The Spartans finally conquered Athens..only being all but wiped out themselves a few years later.

3

I disagree. I feel most of the people on this site are warm, funny and helpful. There are always people who want to stir things up. Or don’t understand context. Or are just miserable human beings?. You know who you are

jab60 Level 6 Aug 1, 2018
3

Without examples, it's hard to know what behaviour you are refering to. If you mean, attacking an idea someone has, I think that is what intellectually minded people should to.

If you mean attacking the person for bring it up, I think that is often bad. With that said, overtly sexist or racist etc, needs to be dealt with so it's not normalized in the community. If it become normalized, many people who are the victims of such bullshit, will feel unwelcomed.

With all that being said, since most bigotry is based on fear and ignorance, it often best to simply politely engage. So I think a balanced needs to thought though about engaging people who believe abhorrent things and allowing victims of that bigotry still feel welcomed in the community.

Often people that are not victims of bigotry advocate for polite exchanges, sometimes making the case that being unpolite is more of a crime than saying bigoted things.

So I'm mixed on your suggestions and would need a lot of context before I even know if I agree with you.

JeffB Level 6 Aug 1, 2018
3

I agree with you. Could you give an example? I'm curious as to specifics. You can messenger me if you are willing, or not.

2

I agree with you. I guess it's safer to be mean on the internet than in real life, but I don't like that either. Nobody's going to know what kinds of issues everybody has or what offends each and everyone particularly... Or if they have to be aggressive when they disagree.... Keep scrolling if it's not something you're going to help with or don't like...

I actually pride myself on being equally snarky....not hiding behind some "internet"

@AnneWimsey let me ask you then, are you snarky toward every one? If you are, why do you do it? Does it help you accomplish something?

@mek7730 I am snarky to people who IMO deserve it...posting whiny Crapola (AS IF we all do not have problems) trolls, postulating I "have" to believe/act/think a certain way.
I also give ( I am told) pretty good down-to-earth advice...maybe not expressed in a touchy-feely way, but straight from my experience of 70 years of tough life experiences. I see posts running 6 large paragraphs sometimes, saying the same thing I can do in 3 sentences......no patience for that, eit

@AnneWimsey Ok, that's reasonable. I do that as well.. I'll be civil, but I guess I have no patience anymore either.. And a lot of people these days have this me first attitude and they want attention all the time. Can't stand that.

2

For the most part I think people on here are respectful even if they disagree. I have seen some harsh confrontations, but overall nothing big. Of course, if it's particular post or comment where I'm caught up in it more then it feels major.

2

A reminder is good! I have seen a few mean things, however, these are in the minority.
Thank you.

2

You seem to have misunderstood the nature and the purpose of the Internet: to allow people to fight with each other, from the safety and privacy of their own keyboards.

In the good old days, it was porn and Star Trek. But those have long gone.

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