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Has anyone else had a religious friend ask where your sense of morality comes from? Didn’t really know what to say except that I enjoy making people feel good. Treat people as you want to be treated. That’s psych 101 to me...

Sbaren00 4 Sep 19
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58 comments (26 - 50)

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0

No but if I did I'd have some fun with them, fake them into thinking I had done all sorts of horrific things and had no idea whats wrong with it before asking wtf is wrong with them and telling them they need Jesus ? Then I guess I'd have to explain mirror neurons, the biological imperative for empathetic nerve systems, the undeniable benefits of the golden rule and how christianity didn't invent compassion, etc. It'll be a long night but at least it started with a laugh.

0

I believe you and your religious friend share the source of your morality.

It begins when we are and selfish and our parents teach us the difference between right and wrong. Then, as we grow, siblings, teachers, friends, etc. continue to impress moral lessons on us in a variety of ways because the morality we learn improves how well the social structure works for everyone. Finally, when we are mature enough to think it through, we realize that everyone feels the same pain and sorrow that we feel in response to the behavior of others. Our response to that knowledge is to refrain from such behaviors. For most, the circle of influence extends from family to friends, and then to larger groups in which we find interest. Finally, the edges of that circle of influence begin to fray and we find it more and more difficult to sympathize with 'faraway unknown others.' When we give, we give only leftovers. Really, how many of us are willing to give--to our own detriment--to benefit the lives of others (unlike what we are willing to give to our family and friends), whom we have never met and never will?

The initial helping of selfishness and survival instinct, with which we are all born, remains and continues into adulthood to a greater or lesser degree for all--religious and nonreligious alike. Thus, the authors of the Bible received their moral education in the same multitudinous ways that you and your friend received yours. The only difference is that some attribute moral knowledge to a supreme being instead of to the evolution of empathy in their own lives.

2

My sense of morality stems from having a healthy respect for all life and a desire to live in harmony with my fellow creatures on this planet

0

My sense of morality comes from how I was raised (religion-free) and from myself.

5

This I think is one of the best retorts to that question.
I don't know who coined it though.

If you can't tell the difference between right and wrong, you don't lack religion, you lack empathy.

0

nobody knows I am agnostic.......so nope......

3

My reply...

If you need a book to tell you your morals: you are just a naturally immoral person. If you are choosing a book for morals, try one which says rape is wrong, slavery is wrong, and killing people for mild infractions is wrong.

1

That question is ubiquitous among the believers quiver. You can't help them until they are ready.

1

It does not take a god to make people realize that others do not like being poked in the eye with a stick the same way you do not like being poked in the eye with a stick. Morality comes from the societal system that you live in. This is why morality is slightly different in different parts of the world. Otherwise you might have your god changing it slightly because of copyright laws.

2

I was raised in the LDS/Mormon faith. My parents raised me to stand up for what is right, and to treat others as I would like to be treated. When I got old enough to think for myself, I held onto how one should treat others and standing up for what is right. I do not believe in organized religion - or the Mormon faith, and highly doubt that there is a "God" or "supreme being". I choose to hold myself to a high standard of ethics and integrity because that is what I have found to be moral. I am able to think and deduce for myself on such matters. I do not need a religion to tell me this. My past experience with religion has mostly exposed me to hypocrisy.

2

The bible is full of rape, slavery, homophobia, misogyny and murder. Where is the morality here? It's hypocrisy pure and simple.

Nothing has changed. Things are still the same today. Chalk up the Bible as a collection of journals/diaries at best.

I expressed those same thoughts on the Bible. This person quickly said, “well, I’m not religious, I’m spiritual.” Ugh ?

@Sbaren00 hmmm. Spiritual vs religious always seems a cop-out to me. I feel that people use the term to describe a situation where they know the "scriptures" or the bible or whatever are horseshit, but have some kind of duality where they still believe in the deities. Sometimes these people will "go to church for their kids", something that in itself should be criminal brainwashing.

@Sbaren00 I have found it necessary to have them define where they get morality first. Clarify their definition tying it back to what their god desires - then nail them with the monster their made-up god represents.

2

“My family raised me like this?” No no... “I pull ideas from my buttercup” is a better answer... it bothers me so much that some people think just because we don’t believe in a sky daddy, a book that falls from the sky and that a man can split the see with his magic stick doesn’t mean we’re horrible people.

Naw.. my morals come from my intelligence. I’m smart enough to know that lying or stealing will hurt someone else and by nature I don’t hurt others. If they hurt me or someone I love, I’ll make them their life a living “hell” but that’s another story. Smh...

1

I would tell them, from evolved human nature, supplemented by reason, knowledge of history and cultural inheritance; in other words from the same place as yours. Only mine is modest, tries to move on, adapt and keep up with the times, it does not pretend to be perfect, to have finally answered every question or to do so by claiming a false divine authority which keeps it ill adapted and only suited to a distant primitive past. Religious morality is only secular morality trying to big itself up with extra authority, which in the end only makes it harshly inhuman an inflexible.

I would then like to point out that the fact that as there are so many different religious moralities, often deeply at odds with one another, they surely follow exactly the pattern I would expect from early pre-global communications cultures, if they were in fact secular moralities, and that if they were inspired by god they would all be the same, or at least as similar as the modern consensus seem to be. Therefore religious morality is a very strong proof that there is no god!

2
0

I would ask them where they find morality in a bible that is so full of immoral actions justified and sanctioned by an immoral god.

2

I think early humans that came together for safety and to share resources had to solve problems as they arose. When stealing became a problem they agreed to make a rule against it. The same goes for killing, and lying and so forth. These became the moral code they created to maintain a peaceful community.

Morality was practiced long before rulers (governments) and religion existed. Religion adopted the moral codes and took over the teaching and promoting.

So my answer would be...logic and reason inspired the creation of morality that allows groups and communities to co-operate in a more peaceful manner which predates religion.

Betty Level 8 Sep 20, 2018

Rulers, governments and religions know nothing of morality. By word they may preach high morals, but by deeds their hands drip the blood of innocents!

@Bakunin

Oh, they know. They just choose to ignore moral codes when it is advantageous for them to do so. Control, power, and wealth feed "greed". Greed is a demanding master.

2

Constantly. My neighbor. I basically say. I strive to make my actions cause no harm to others.

2

I have and I let them know it stems from the way I was raised. My mom instilled a strong moral compass in me. We are all equal and all deserve love.

1

Good answer! The Golden Rule wins out every time

lerlo Level 8 Sep 20, 2018
1

What I want to know is where does the morality come from in so-called "religious" people!? My ethical framework and morality feel, seem and appear to be WAY ahead of many of the local church-goers and well-known teach-by-example figures. Sheesh!

1

I usually say something along the lines of, well, if you need someone telling you that murder and rape and thievery is wrong... I mean...

Remi Level 7 Sep 20, 2018
2

I had known a guy for several years but he had never asked what religion I was. When asked I told him I was an atheist and his immediate response was "But you seem so moral." I explained that morals don't come from holy books and it was pretty easy because his ex had an affair with their preacher and his brother isn't a very ethical person to put it mildly although he is very religious. I didn't bring up those things directly but tend to nudge toward them when circumstances warrant.

gearl Level 8 Sep 20, 2018
4

Tried to find an attribution for the quote and could not immediately do so, but it is basically...

If you need the threat of eternal punishment to keep you from doing harm to others, you are not a good person.
You are a psychopath on a leash.

1

One thing I find is that morality tends to be fluid when you are dealing with religion. Morality changes from sect to sect, from religion to religion from time period to time period. So really you have only a non-religious morality that is consistent because they are based on human principles and in the video greed is mentioned. Greed can be seen as moral behaviour in a religious context. But destructive greed is never seen as moral behaviour in an atheist context ---

1

From myself and society, it's a slow and steady process. We are happiest when doing good, we wrestle with tough questions and do the best we can, learn from our mistakes and move forward.
We find plenty in religion that is morally reprehensible and fight against it rather than adhering to it blindly.

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