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A Tale of Gender Bashing and a Double Standard.

I've been a part of a Facebook thread today that I think really reflects elements of group think, enabling, and double standards. I thought I would share and get this community's thoughts.

A friend of mine posted a You Tube video from 2015 of Missouri Senator Claire McCaskill doing, in my opinion, a comedic monologue on the Stephen Colbert show. I'll post the link below. Anyway, her comment was that she was very tired of gender bashing toward men, and can't we just concentrate on building each other up and raising children to be respectful.

I was surprised at how rude the subsequent comments became of Claire McCaskill. Most of the women who posted stated they did not share Claire's viewpoint. Very respectful. I have no problem with a disagreement in a point of view.

Then 3 men posted. Here's what they wrote:
Male #1 - What a DUMB Ass. Claire your fired!
Male #2 - Missouri, please vote this creature out of office!
Male #3 - I stopped listening to senators years ago. I hear more intelligent statements from the subhumans on my bus.

All of these posts got several "Likes" from the women. So, a post about decreasing gender bashing toward men is full of gender bashing toward this female senator. I kept waiting for someone to notice the hypocrisy, but it didn't happen.

So I pointed it out. I stated I thought it sad and concerning that women are outraged at a female bashing men, but they were okay with 1. a demeaning comment about her intelligence, 2. her humanity being reduced to a "creature", and 3. her humanity being reduced below people considered "subhuman" (I find that disturbing as well). I also stated that bashing, bullying, and other verbal abuse would not change if we continue to be silent when its right in view.

One woman responded and agreed that the comments were rude, and not reflective of the woman who made the original post. One of the men posted that "I would so much feel better if I would just go get one of those overpriced, pumpkin spiced drinks."

I saddens me that there is such a double standard between the genders, the group think, and the enabling behavior. Your thoughts?

Here is the You Tube video:

linxminx 7 Sep 22

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6

I'm ready to overthrow the patriarchy. Have been since I was about 12.

I'm all for equality. True equality.

@linxminx That would be great. I truly hope it happens.
I don't expect that it will though. I'd love to be wrong about that.
Although, I don't see it happening in my lifetime.

5

It saddens me that there is such a double standard between the genders, the group think, and the enabling behavior.

                                      IT MIGHT BE SOMETHING ELSE ENTIRELY

Well posted, linxminx, but this just might be all about people control instead of genders and enabling. As such it has everything to do with group think. Anyone remember the Facebook meme with Jesus and the Devil arm wrestling? Later there was one with Hillary and Donald arm wrestling and Hillary had taken the place of the Devil. These were out prior to the last election and similar things led to cries of Russian meddling. Facebook has been to Congress and since then has made some changes, but I have less functionality in Facebook now.

What I do notice is that political subjects are bombarded by troll comments that come from sources not so easily nailed down. This goes beyond the "cutesy" level that so many of us would use anyway. Many of the comments are false and not backed by evidence. The person posting cannot be traced, or if you do trace them they are vaguely listed and they become invisible days later. This is like a series of "missed calls" on your phone that suddenly are not working numbers only minutes later. What's going on with the phones is somebody wanting your information. What goes on in Facebook and You Tube is that someone wants your money and your vote. Yes, they will even lie to get it.

Tactics of "Russian meddling" were in place before the election and so much more so even now. Imagine someone spending millions to get your dollar and tell you how to vote. Imagine billionaire business interests running agencies to do this and you see behind the false information. Advertising has always been about people control but today we have stepped into 1984. The difference is that it came a bit late.

Hmmmm...interesting. I think everyone who posted on the thread was legit, but I guess I don't really know for sure.

@linxminx They may have been legit but try to fact check them in order to see for sure. Some people want to give a "cutesy" sarcastic reply today. Others are trolls to manipulate opinion. That was the difference I was bringing up.

@DenoPenno How do you "fact check"? Is it just seeing if they have a real Facebook page?

@linxminx That works for comments inside Facebook and often you come up with a bare minimum page just enough to make an account. No pics, no other items period. It seems unlikely to me that someone so opinionated has nothing on their page. In my view of this these pages can be used later to try and guide opinion on some other subject matter.
In other fact check, Snopes.com is a good one. You can also follow Trump's tweets which make him look like an idiot, and there are many online fact checking sites or which Breitbart and Alex Jones are NOT remotely related. Truth did not suddenly start showing up in 2015 like others want us to believe.

@DenoPenno I checked everyone and they all appear to have full and legitimate pages. Thanks for the suggestions. I have checked Snopes often when I'm suspicious of a post, and it's amazing how many are fake news. I've followed some of Trump's tweets. Just couldn't take his rudeness and abuse, not to mention the sexist comments toward women, so I stopped.

@linxminx Trumps remarks make him appear to be an idiot. If in any doubt do a Google search for other sites that are like Snopes.

4

ROFLMAO -- Wonderful bit on her part, and she made some valid points along with being funny. As for the response from the men, I have a feeling they are threatened by any woman who makes sense and has the courage to speak out. Many of them are walking around with millennia of conditioning that they are the superior part of civilization in all respects. Fortunately, some of us have never had that idea and it appears that number is growing. Waiting for our species to mature is often frustrating.

3

It's unfortunate but I've noticed a similiar response on a couple of my posts.
I expect better. I demand better from any man in my life.

3

I totally agree about your post. If whole planet would stop crapping on each other, the world would be a better place.

Wouldn't it though?!!!

3

The double standard is between the powerful and the powerless. Women just happen to make up a disportionate part of that demographic. The clip was funny.

You may have something there. Thanks.

3

It's called white knighting. I guess it's a reasonable tactic to try to pick up women. I'm not sure who would respect a man who blindly co-opt's whatever the prevailing opinion of the group is though.

I'm wrong and almost constantly saying dumb things but at least I try to improve my opinions as I go. Sometimes it comes after I dig my heels in for almost no apparent reason and make a fool of myself but usually eventually I'll come around to the better argument.

Never heard that term before, but it makes sense.

3

Women who support bashing females are a part of the problem. I find it consistently sad and amusing that SOME men think that they are superior to women in logic and reason and yet, make illogical remarks about women that have no basis and no relation to the argument at hand. Ad hominems are all they seem to know--they cannot discredit the argument (serious or satire) so they go personal.

Illogical remarks--you nailed it! Like the supreme illogical reach from calling out rude and demeaning behavior to me needing a pumpkin-spiced latte so I would feel better. Wow, how illogical and dismissive does it get!

@linxminx It does not get more patronizing and dismissive than that. What woman would associate with such a demeaning man? Oh yeah, one who voted for Trump and who still things that he is great.

@Gwendolyn2018 My friend who started the post commented saying, "You have to understand that he has a unique sense of humor, and is obsessive about pumpkin-spice when fall rolls around. It's his happy place." You know I thought she was more enlightened than this, but I think I'm wrong. I'm just full of all kinds of sadness right now.

@linxminx Humor should not extend to demeaning people in this manner. Blacks love fried chicken and watermelon, right? Women love pumpkin spice.

3

I took it as humor. Kind of lame humor, but most politicians aren't comedians, so not a big deal. There is a huge difference between poking fun (or "bashing" if you think that's what she is doing) at a group that traditionally enjoys privilege, and poking fun at a group that is traditionally oppressed. When it's an oppressed group, the same humor can seem far more sinister and takes on meanings that may not have been the intent of the originator. One cannot cry hypocrisy on such an uneven playing field.

Deb57 Level 8 Sep 22, 2018

I also took it a humor on a satirical political comedy show so I really didn't take what she said seriously. I mean when your list includes Star Wars and James Bond, I don't think its meant to be taken serious.

2

I have a strong suspicion that these guys who posted in the FB thread did not watch the video or understand that she was speaking in support of men. There are a lot of dumbass guys on FB (and on the interwebs in general) who, any time anyone posts something gender-related, automatically assume that it's anti-men. Which is what I'm assuming these guys did, did not even bother watching the video, and just popped off their opinions like the bunch of assclowns they are because they assumed the senator was speaking up for women and not for men.

However, I stand with the women in your FB thread who disagreed with the senator. While I'm certainly no misandrist, the subtext of her statements in this video clip read an awful lot like support of priviledged white men, which we don't need any more of on this planet. Privileged white men have commandeered enough support for themselves already. They don't need women, particularly privileged white women in positions of power, speaking up for them. They've historically had an audience of their peers and all the marginalized people they've stepped on and continued to marginalize for centuries. They don't need anyone else speaking up for them, whether humorously intended or not. Senator McCaskill should be spending more of her words and actions on raising up women and not speaking up for an already over-privileged group.

I also wondered if the men just said nasty things because it was a woman with power speaking, without stopping to see what she said.

Hadn't thought of that. You have a point.

2

I personally find it better to just ignore the idiots of society. Social media has just given them a louder voice. I choose to tune it out. And I also am not so convinced it's always necessarily a matter of groupthink so much as it is people seeking attention and approval, or hopping on the PC bandwagon.

2

Love this. Savvy lady.

2

Lol! She is absolutely right. Men need to just shut up from time to time. A practice that I put my best effort in, even though I fail. Like right now.

2

Sexism, racism can be helped and not acted upon. Xenophobia, transphobia can't be helped; but don't have to be acted upon either. Bigots want to be discriminatory, they want to be loud and heard, and want their will inflicted on everyone.

I condemn imposing inequality based on sex, religion, sexuality, nationality, skin color....etc

I would argue that xenophobia and transphobia can be helped. People need to get out and experience the world and learn from each other. Why should it be acceptable to be a transphobe or a xenophobe?

@Remi a phobia means a fear of something. That's like saying arachnophobia can be helped. But just because someone has a fear of spiders does not mean tons of pesticides should be dumped to kill every spider in the country.

@stinklizard yeah, but I believe most fears can be conquered. It just takes the right kind of exposure. And I don't think that's a fair comparison, fear of being bitten by a spider and fear of... what exactly is scary about a trans person?

@Remi I have a fear of hypodermic needles, and it's irrational. I don't find anything scary about trans people. I would hate to live in a place which tells you how to think. Trans people aren't spiders nor am I trying to equate them to something dangerous, but you can't force people not to feel something. The fear is fueled by people allowing law to be passed which enables bigotry. It's probably a bit of cause and effect. If I have fear "A" it gives me the false sense of power to control group "B", so it's a fear more likely to be manifested. Take away the power.

2

I feel like I shouldn't share my opinion about this. hahaha

People don't always read, listen, or view everything. They put too much emphasis on first impressions instead of the facts. I'm sure there are some people who thought she was completely serious because they didn't watch the whole video and see the Stephen Colbert tag at the end. It's supposed to be a funny video, but there are some truths to what she is saying, e.g. men have no say on the legality of abortion or if/when a woman should get an abortion (unless it involves his child, but the woman should still have the final decision).

There's always going to be stupid people, and there's always going to be sexism. All we can do is try to teach our friends and family that, whether you are a man or woman, everyone should be equal.

Absolutely you should share your opinion. That's what is great about this community. Different perspectives. The link posted didn't have the SC tag at the end. I'll have to search for it, I imagine it was hilarious. I respect your point of view on feeling men should have a say in the decision to abort. I don't agree, but I certainly respect your right to an opinion different than mine. Thanks for posting.

@linxminx "I respect your point of view on feeling men should have a say in the decision to abort. I don't agree..."

Really? That would completely shatter me if my girlfriend or wife made that kind of decision without hearing my opinion or having me involved in some way. Hell, I would probably agree with her if she wanted an abortion. I feel people in relationships should respect one another and be partners. In regards to abortion, I'm not saying both should have equal say in the decision (the woman definitely has more say), but at least make life decisions together.

Of course, if it's a one-night stand or the guy ditches, then the woman has 100% say.

@joeymf86 Obviously if this is in the context of a committed, loving relationship I would hope both partners have a mutual say in the decision to abort or have the child. That is ideal. I guess where I'm coming from is if committed partners disagree, then who has the final say? Then I don't agree that the man should have a legal say in what a woman does with her body. However, I will say that I have never personally been in that kind of position, so at best I can only conjecture.

@joeymf86 Correction, the video does have the SC tag at the end. I thought you meant he made a response after, but now I see what you mean.

1

We like to make generalizations. We like to observe poor behavior and then paint everyone who looks like that individual with a single brush. It makes a complex issue seem simple. And we like simple solutions. But we need to put down our paint brushes. We are not going to be holding everyone responsible for the actions of a finite number of individuals. Group punishment is not justice. We hold culprits responsible for their actions. That is justice.

1

Love this video. I'm a missouri person. I hope she wins

1

I never understood why women would not look out for each other, instead of what is happening. Women are the ones who mostly bring up children and have a big influence on them, it is about time that they started to teach their children to show respect towards each other.

I listened to an Audible book on the History of Misogyny, and it has maybe the best explanation I've heard so far as to why women fail to support each other. Throughout history women have been an oppressed population. One means of getting out of the oppression was depending on men, so men are a resource or asset. As such, women compete against each other for these resources/assets. It makes sense in an historic sense, but now women don't necessarily need a man to take care of them. We can be educated and have careers, we can take care of ourselves, so I don't understand why women seem to still be so competitive with other women, and the subsequent lack of support.

@linxminx I don't understand it either, considering who do we "run" to when our lives are in tatters, not a man but to your girlfriends.

@Jolanta Makes no sense whatsoever. 😟

@CoastRiderBill I agree that commitment to the christian belief system does explain the behavior of conservative women with respect to the whole honoring and obeying men, and certainly can explain the female comments to this specific FB thread. However, it doesn't explain just pure viciousness women can show other women outside of the relationship spectrum. Having recently taught at a christian university, I witnessed and was even a victim of viciousness by women toward women, the likes I have never experienced before. It was mean, nasty, and corrupt, worthy of a mobster movie only the dead bodies weren't thrown at the bottom of a lake, they were just the turnover rate of the workplace, which was close to 70% at times. There were 3 lawsuits while I was there because of the illegal and unethical treatment of the faculty, yet the male dominated university leadership just looked at what was happening and said "Meh." This level of competitiveness, and subsequent viciousness was job related, not about who can find the best mate. It was a trio of women, protected by tenure, who were given way too much power and control. They used their positions and job security to specifically target certain individuals. The only thing I can think of as the reason this went on was for the pure evil enjoyment in abusing and torturing others. There is a research area in psychology on a phenomena called Queen Bee Syndrome. Women who are elevated to leadership positions often take on the ruthlessness of their male counterparts, especially toward other females. They will fiercely protect their elevated position and guard their leadership territory in a brutal and callous manner, and subsequently oppresses the other females. it is the closest to explaining what I experienced. I'm glad to be out of there. Thanks for your comments, always insightful.

@linxminx Those kind of women must be incredibly insecure.

@Jolanta I'm still dealing with the after effects of what I went through, and I will journal sometimes to get the feelings and emotions out. Yesterday was one of those days. I wrote that I didn't feel this place hired people, they "chose" you. The work environment was greatly impacted by the dictator leader, but it also operated like an elite sorority. Once you were hired, the dictator leader, who had this imagined hierarchy, put you in a certain plane/level/role, and the hazing began. Hazings differed in length and severity depending on this "level" you were placed in by the dictator leader. Mine was the most severe and lasted the entire time I was there. I wrote that I never reached the level of being accepted and belonging. I remember telling one person who still works there, she is the only one I still talk with, that I felt I had been hired for the express purpose of being abused. This was her response, "I'm not sure if I agree to that, but I do feel that you were hired so they could make you do whatever they wanted on a whim." Do you see how she is shielding herself from the truth? I wrote that the rest of the employees silently watched with a voyeuristic mix of pain and pleasure. Pleasure being that they were not the ones being abused, although they were, just to different levels. This happened in a university. I have read quite a bit about the workplace abuse that goes on in higher education, so what I experienced is not uncommon. I call it intellectual discrimination. Tenured professors and organizational leadership, both male and female, treat others they deem lower than themselves (for a variety of reasons) and feel justified in abusing them in the work environment. Most are on the level of grad students or adjunct faculty, but I was a full-time, contracted faculty on a promotional trajectory. My path to getting there was different though. Most of these women got undergrad degrees, then went right into grad school for masters, then their phd's. They came up through the system. I got my undergrad, worked in industry, came back for a masters, then began teaching high school for 18 years, then transitioned into teaching at the college level. They really looked down on me because I taught high school. Anyway, thanks for listening.

1

i love mccaskill. (and did you see who she ran against one time? the guy who said that women can't get pregnant through rape!) i have heard her speak about the sexism and gender bias she has encountered throughout her career. she had good cause to notice it whichever direction it takes. but you know what else? i might disagree with one thing she says, or one vote she makes. that doesn't make her a creature, or an idiot, or a dumbass. that makes her someone who, surprise, isn't my clone!

i am perfectly capable of making jokes like "men have a y chromosome. it often makes women ask "why? why? why?" is that sexist? i don't know. but i don't think it's demeaning. there is no need to be demeaning -- although i would make demeaning jokes about nazis, as soon as i stopped vomiting.

g

1

So men aren't supposed to express their opinions on matters that women have chosen for us to not weigh in on? I don't get it. Maybe everyone should be allowed to express their opinion?

I get the intended humor in this. It was just very stilted, tone-deaf.

There is a double standard in how the genders are treated. A significant portion of women support it and a significant portion of men are in opposition to the double standard.

This is not a war of the sexes! This is a war of belief systems.

I'm thinking that the main posters of the thread were all from a common belief system. My friend who made the original post is a devote Catholic, and I'm thinking the other posters were also Catholic, although I have no proof. So it is possible this showed group think based on the same belief system.

1

ameriKKKa. The era of empires lasting a thousand years is over. Third reich comes to mind... and so the decline of ameriKKKa. America will never be the same. Men had shown being in "power" in other lands did not solved much despite controlling "history". I don't think women will be better though. We are Doomed... Okay... I lived a long life. RUDE IS THE NORM AND THE ENEMY AT THE GATE. Double Standard to improve your Agenda is Standard Operating Procedure... In a Tribal Society I am opting for belonging to No Tribe.

In a tribal society I am opting for belonging to no tribe....me too!!

@linxminx You are welcome to the safety and enlightenment of my rooftop at 2 AM. I am sure I can learn a lot from you.

@GipsyOfNewSpain The feeling is mutual. I know I would learn from you as well. Thanks!

@linxminx That is how it should be between all of us. You are welcome and Thanks to you too.

1

I didn't think the video was funny or constructive. I'm not a fan of the rude replies to it, either. However, I'm not sure it's such a clear case of hypocrisy overall.

"So, a post about decreasing gender bashing toward men is full of gender bashing toward this female senator."

Males' comments #1 and #3 toward McCaskill aren't gender-bashing. #1 is just bashing her individually, not a class she belongs to. #3 is senator/politician-bashing and ...bus-rider-bashing?

I guess #2 probably is gender-bashing, on account of "creature". IDK how many readers would necessarily pick up on that and agree, though.

"One of the men posted that 'I would so much feel better if I would just go get one of those overpriced, pumpkin spiced drinks.'"

Gender-based insult, yeah.

Male comments #1 and #3 toward McCaskill aren't gender-bashing. I can see that and I would agree with you. Definitely bus-rider bashing with the "subhuman" comment. My response to his "feel better" suggestion was "I feel fine and dandy. I'm not sure why your suggesting I should have a pumpkin-spiced latte." No response back. Thanks for your comments.

1

The positive about the -isms is that they are learned. We are not genetically programmed, hence we can also teach love, tolerance, equality. Remember, there are almost 8 billion humans. It only takes a small percentage of idiots to vitiate anything.

1

Dang. Go you for saying something. It's a shame people are like that & I have no idea what can be done when these norms are so persistent & deep rooted. I guess it's another one of those long battles. :/

...persistent & deep rooted. You nailed it!

0

I'm fairly far left and almost always enjoy colbert, but complaining isn't satire, the bit was annoying and not funny. It's not that it came from a woman it's the fact that if you string twenty complaints together about anything, it's just annoying.

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