Agnostic.com

57 7

Does evil exist? As non-believers do we still accept the concept of evil in its pure form?

  • 36 votes
  • 77 votes
273kelvin 8 Oct 7
Share

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

57 comments

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

0

Evil exists, it is a human construct and although genetics, upbringing, and society are often the cause, it does not mean that it does not create evil in a very real and pure form.

I disagree but I'm open to other perspectives. Can you give me an example of what you would classify as pure evil?

@Meili Any serial killer.

@mattersauce Maybe they are only evil when they are committing their atrocities. Maybe the rest of the time they are rescuing kittens and such. Defining "Pure" would focus the discussion.

@mattersauce I wouldn't consider myself qualified to make that determination since I've never known any serial killers personally.

@Meili @Davekp I would say that any human who hunts and murders people is pure evil. How does it matter if they also save kittens? I"m not sure what the relevance is to the multiple people that were murdered or the families that the serial killer also saved kittens. Evil is a human concept, and if a serial killer isn't pure evil, I can't imagine what would be and why we'd even have the term. If you have to factor every single thing that they've ever done and their entire history, you'll never identify anyone as pure evil. Someone does not become a serial killer while coming up in a happy home and having nothing inside them that is "off". Does that mean that they are not pure evil, if so what would be? My opinion is that at some point you may be so incredibly broken that you can't live in society with the rest of us, and yeah that sucks for them but they're still pure evil.

@mattersauce You've described the reason I don't believe evil exists. A person isn't the sum total of one thing they do but when we look at other people we usually judge them based on only a moment or two of their life. I don't think we can judge even a serial killer based on the few facts we know about them because we've taken one thing they do and made it everything. I don't want people to do that with me so I'm not willing to do it with them.

6

In my opinion, evil is strictly a human condition. My definition of evil is anything that is done deliberately, intentionally, with malice of forethought that causes harm or damage to another. Non-human animals, plants, non-living things are not and can not be evil as it has to be a deliberate, conscious decision one makes to cause harm.

So chimps killing another chimp from a different group and eating them isn't evil? Ever watch a cat toy with a mouse before eating it?

@xenoview Please read my comment again if you did not understand it the first time.

3

I define good as that which advances life and evil as that which impedes life, so yes, there is evil. This is the basis of morality.

@Infoguy211, extreme self-centeredness does impede life, so it fits. But you can have evil without extreme self-centeredness, so I wouldn't include that in the definition.

2

Shocking to me that people can try and cover "evil" with excuses but then again many of these same people believed in god. I guess realization can't happen all at once for some. As a prosecutor for 20 years I can say that I've seen pure evil. People with no conscience. Are people requiring that you be born evil to be evil? Not a whole lot of newborns committing horrible murders. Just like I asked a friend the other day, if there is no god, would it change how you live your life day to day? Why is it so hard to admit that there is evil? Just for kicks, ask the opposite question and see if the same people think that good exists. Would they all say no, it has to be learned? It's explained by genetics, upbringing and society? By the way please show me some study that has found the "evil gene."
p.s. for some that would mean that anyone who commits murder for example must be mentally ill and should not be punished.

lerlo Level 8 Oct 7, 2018

You make a good argument. For myself, I would agree that my belief that evil doesn't exist is based in my rejection of the religious beliefs I was brought up with. I noticed that people tended to label others as evil based on whether or not their decisions met their idea of right and wrong, which were most often a list they had compiled from some authoritative source that didn't have any basis in reason.

But that's not the only reason I rejected the idea of evil. The primary reason is because I discovered that evil is an objectified label people place on others. I was deemed evil but I was able to see that other people didn't recognize why I made the choices I did. I also recognized that if they had understood me, they would have been able to help me and they wouldn't have made the situations I was in worse. At the same time, I could understand them and understand why they felt I was evil because I had once been in their position.

I think that if you say that evil is something that people develop into then you have to also say it is something people can develop out of. In which case, you can't classify a person as purely evil, which I think is what this discussion is truly about. I also don't think you can classify actions as purely evil because even killing someone can be right or wrong based on the circumstances.

@Meili I agree that all adjectives are subjective but I believe that some people are just evil--they can't develop out of it and the crimes and bad actions they commit are out of a lack of conscience. They just don't care. The fact that some people throw the term out indiscriminately doesnt take away form the word, it takes away from them.

0

Did you watch Judge Kavanaugh's performance on the Senate hearing? The man was evil.

That was cowardice, another human failing.

6

Evil does exist. Just look at the White House.

Just don’t stare at FOXNews, you’ll go blind, crazy or both.

2

Yes, horribly destructive behavior that cares for nothing but it’s own power driven by hate! I don’t believe I need to aprouch it from a biblical perspective since as evidenced by this platform none of us believe in a God or Devil... evil is in the White House and anyplace people suffer while the greedy stand on their shoulders!

I want to ad my definition of, “ it’s pure form” ... is it relentless? Does it lack remorse? If the answer is yes it might be as pure a form as could exist... but if by “pure” you mean somthing that doesnt exist in terms of atheism there would be no reason to answer the question.

0

My 2c worth;
A lot of responses to this question. Far far too many to answer individually.
One of the reasons I asked this is a TV play I watched called "Longford". It concerned his friendship with Britains most notorious killer Myra Hindley. She with her partner Ian Brady kidnapped, tortured and killed 5 children in the 1960s and buried them outside of Manchester.. Long Longford was a Christian judge. Not one your alt right guys although he was anti abortion and also anti porn. However (I digress). This guy is what you might think of as the best of Christianity and he takes up Hindleys case. Arguing for a possible release date etc, Now at one point in the play she turns to him and says "You are a good man. You see the good in people and are attracted to it but at night on the moors when we were burning those children I saw the beauty of evil"

@273kelvin That was a play. It's a great line for a play. Reality is that all human being have more or less the same makeup.

1

Of course. The 20th Century alone is full of many evil dictators, killing millions of people, mostly their own citizens.

1

Nobody sees themselves as evil.

Everybody thinks they are doing what is necessary when they act against others. Save the country from sh~hole migrants, behave as a compassionate conservative, round up those minorities, whatever.

1

I think that (evil) is subjective.
Some people do some shit things, yet also do good things too. does that make them evil?
I think there is a sinner, and saint in every one, No one is pure anything.
Even killing. there are times when it is a bad thing, and there are times when it is good.

A whale kills more shrimp and fish in one week than all of the tyrants that ever lived. Do we call the whale evil?

I guess that anything could be good or bad depending on ones point of view.

1

It depends on what you mean by "pure evil." If it means an intelligently malignant intent independent of physical beings, then no.

But I believe that there are people who enjoy malignant (and cruel) actions for the sake of cruelty alone. Are they "pure" evil? And I say I don't care; they are evil enough for me.

0

Evil doesn't exist neither does goodness, it's a point of View. These points of view have lead to the degradation of society for thousands of years. We are all brain washed into believing into these points of view. If we didn't judge one thing as good or evil. Would it be wrong to go by our animal instincts? Kill off those that make us weak, fight those that would oppress us, as a wolf will fight for dominance and leadership. Hunt for food or fight protect our territory or loved ones. We judge ourselves as higher lifeforms. But we strive against the natural order.

1

i have SEEN evil. i don't attach the word "pure" to it for a variety of reasons, not least of which is that it's not a THING. it's a characteristic, and no human characteristic is pure. it's always mixed with other stuff, not necessarily conflicting stuff, but other. so "pure" doesn't apply. it's not a force. it's not the wind, or a god. it's how some people are.

g

0

I don't believe in anything like "pure evil." I think it's terms like these we use to alienate those who do harm in ways that we don't understand in order to draw lines between them and us, when the truth is likely that they're more alike us than not. People say "Hitler" and "Trump" as examples, but I would bet that either of these men, if you met them without knowing who they were in a one-on-one scenario would come across more normal than you think and that's the scary part. Hitler didn't hypnotize anyone and rise to power. He took advantage of German people's biases and made bigotry palatable enough to gain followers, but we like to pain him as a hate monster which is easier than accept that we can all be manipulated into following someone who has harmful motives. It's why we are in a sticky wicket in America right now. Trump is in power because there are enough people willing to let someone like that rule for their personal gain. Religious leaders embrace him for that "long game" of ending abortions and rich people doing it to stay richer. From their internal perspective, even though it sound deplorable, they're doing it to self-sustain. And I'm not saying I want to relate to these people, because they can suck the dirt from toes for electing a moron, but I'm saying that if I spoke to them, I could probably see their logic. Not agree with it. But see it. There's no such thing as evil or monsters.

4

Does Blue exist can you show me an ounce of blue
Does Two exist can you show me a piece of two
Find me one grain of evil and I will accept it as existing, otherwise it is just a description of an act thought to be against the well being on a person or thing by another person.
When a person is described as being evil, it is a misnomer for a person capable of doing evil, saying "that is an evil person", is like calling a philosopher a philosophy.

Evil is simply a concept and not an objective one at that.

1

I even wrote a book on this subject. Idea of evil and the devil has always intrigued me. The most insight into the concept I've found is presented in William Golding's Lord of the Flies. The concept of the devil is nothing more than a primitive attempt to explain human evolution from carnivorous pack hunters. The character "Jack" is the Freudian "id" (it), the seat of feral, human emotions like rage, anger, jealousy and envy.

The character Simon says, "Maybe we are the beastie". Religion has clouded our view of our own nature. Most people just read a disturbing story about choir boys stranded on an island. There's more to it than that. It's the first attempt to study human nature, as under a microscope.

How do you say "Lord of the flies" in Hebrew?" Beelzebub.

[amazon.com]

1

I’m my mind, with the denouncement of god, comes the denouncement of the devil. Just as you would have to believe in “all or nothing” when it comes to the stories in the Bible, I believe the same is true when you decide not to believe, it’s all or nothing. Good and evil only exist in the minds and actions of all living things, in my humble opinion.

4

Evil does exist, more in the form of what people do, but not in the form of some external force that drive people to commit bad or evil deeds. P3eople can be evil without any e3xternal influences, such as in some cases of sociopathy or virtually all cases of psychopathy.

1

I think the words Good and Evil are like the words fair or deserve.... they refer to something that doesn't truly exist.

0

I think there is somewhere between the psychology of what can go wrong with people - and average societal expectations - and behavior that is so very far off the normal - that I define it as evil.

I can think of a few authors I've read who research and then write fiction about serial killers... right there I'm very easily convinced of "evil".
It's almost a choice to do wrong knowing it's wrong and not caring.

Still working on that idea though.

1

A hammer can be used to build or destroy. Using it to destroy does not make the wielder evil, however, it may prove he's an asshole. What is my point? I have no idea.

0

The idea of evil vs. pure evil makes this poll a bit tricky. It is a subtle change, but an important one in my view. When I taught business ethics, I proposed that good/evil were social constructs to help identify what was acceptable behaviour or how far out of bounds some behaviour is. Using murder as an example... murder (in cold blood) is "evil" but murder (self-defense) can bend the perception for some people, and genocide is almost universally evil. Yet, the occurrence of murder can be rather banal. Yes, a bit of shameless referencing to Arendt's Banality of Evil, but I think it presents some noteworthy thinking points.

0

If a person is just "born evil" that implies they never had a chance to be anything else, that there was never an option for them that didn't involve "evil". If that's the case, aren't they also a victim of "evil"? Their life and path predetermined by a force they can't resist or change.

Seems an awful lot like a theists belief to me...

0

Humans don't need monsters, we can be bad enough to scare imagined creatures.

Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:195443
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.