Agnostic.com

11 9

Yesterday’s horror in Pittsburgh reminds me that, though I am an atheist, I will always be a Jew.

Keeping the victims, their families and their friends and the entire Jewish Community in my heart.

WV-Mark 5 Oct 28
Share

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

11 comments

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

0

So. Is Daring David and his barely disguised celebration of murder gone from site?

I would not be sad.

No. He’s (sadly) still around.

I blocked him. Who needs to tolerate jerks?

@spiced
I really can't believe that was allowed to stand.

0

It's tragic, to be sure. From what I have read about the shooter, he seems to be deeply mentally ill and not politically motivated. I have always said, we have a real mental health problem in the U.S., and it is only getting worse. Why so many seem to ignore this is beyond my understanding.

He railed against Jews and immigrants. Considered trump soft on immigration

Not sure how not political that is.

@spiced I dunno, millions do the same but don't shoot up buildings full of people. That seems to fall very specifically under the domain of the mentally ill. He also was a heavy critic of Trump and voted against him, so it kinda shoots the whole MAGA extremist thing in the foot right there.

the Mentally ill claim is to simple. There are millions of people in the country dealing with mental illness who are never violent.

This animal posted his hatred for Jews, American immigration policy, talked about being a nationalist and posted about politics constantly.

Is he mentally ill? Maybe. Is he a anti-Semitic ideologue? Without question.

@spiced Sure reads like the ramblings of a mentally deranged asshole to me. A lot more likely that his politics are driven by his illness, than his illness is driven by his politics.

And for clarification, mental illness is a very broad category. Most people suffering from mental illness do not have the sort of disorder that leads them to go on politically tinged rants and killing people in public. So I disagree that the mental illness claim is "to [sic] simple". I think, in his case, it fits the bill perfectly. He's not the same as an addict, a manic, someone with PTSD, or depression. There are degrees and types of mental illness. Trying to say they're all the same is foolish and is dismissive of the problem.

@Piratefish you misunderstand.

When I say “to simple” I am saying it’s the day thing to say. It’s far to complicated to simply say “mentally ill”. It’s the easy way out.

I suspect if the shooter was Muslim far fewer people would be saying “mentally ill” and far more would be saying “radicalized terrorist”

@spiced Not wanting to debate politics or what some people might say. I am simply saying the guy is a deranged asshole. Period. He has serious mental issues. Period. Insert all the politics you want into it, but the fact remains the shooter was not a rabid conservative extremist and die hard Trump supporter who coolly thought out his antisemitism. He's a fucking whack job. Maybe you think he's sane and making a political statement, but to me, that is naive and too conveniently simple.

0

This has come up before but I have to disagree. Hate destroys and kills. Love, religion or anything else cannot thrive when it is gone.

I disagree. Hate does not last, not in its most virulent form. It certainly destroys but it destroys the hater while it destroys the hated.

Community, mutual support, education, discourse will overcome hate.

@spiced Sorry, I consider myself a realist. Nature is red of tooth and claw. When violence applies to humans it is sometimes called hate (like in wars when there is hatred on both sides). When applied to non-humans it is called survival. All emotions (hate and love) are simply the flow of chemicals in our brains. To me the one thing that can transcend all emotions is reason.

0

Totally agree with you. Thats why I took over the Jewish By Culture Group which was created with pro--Zionist views which i do not ascribe to. We are growing now if you would like to check us out. Meanwhile I'd like to share your post with the group.

Please feel free to share.

1

I was recently told my views are somewhat Jewish, even though I am an agnostic atheist. I reserve belief for the tangible and I renounce structure dedicated to the unfounded. My emotions about this recent act of hatred range from vengeful hatred against the perpetrator to annoyance that yet another crime was committed in the name of presumption against a group based on culture/religion/one of many versions of a belief in the supernatural. This is all I’ve got for the moment.

2

Judaism, more so than many religions, has a companion cultural component that functions mostly independently. This is how Judaism tolerates agnostics and atheists and allows them to participate in cultural Judaism. Or at least it's how that works outside of fundamentalist Judaism. This allows the core basis for Jewish community to be cultural and largely independent of the theological aspect, which is in a sense optional.

2

Indeed. The divisions fall away and we remember that we're all just people. I'm so saddened for that congregation and the neighborhood and the families of the victims and my city.

2

Yesterdays. Horrid advent in pitsburg was simply awful it breaks my heart people shouldn't be killed for there believes thoughts and prayers for all involved xx

sunnn Level 4 Oct 28, 2018
4

i'm with you. there is judaism and there is jewishness. one is a religion and one is a cultural identity. i always self-identify as a jew, and i am fine with that. i have many reasons (lox is one of them) but if pressed i will say that as long as there is one person in the world who hates me without even knowing i individually exist, i have to be a jew.

g

I like your reply - thank you and its hard for me to understand - way way before i was born my family were huguenots and were hounded out of France and fled to other countries so they too are a diaspora but people who hate are hating themselves not us. I ma not sure that we would ever know the reason why people pick on us for trumped up reasons - for me its because my name is Podevin and people decide I am Polish "and I think just go take running jump into a lake!"I won't be talking to you again!

@jacpod Huguenots?? Me too! Or at least, that was my mother's father's heritage. Bissell family, immigrating to the U.S. as part of the colonial Puritan wave, but before that had fled France for Britian.

1

I don't want to be rude or unkind in any way but I just want to understand what difference that makes and I don't understand if jewishness is a religion that you an take or leave or if it is something that defines you as different - If you could get me to understand I would be very grateful. I have never had a religion or been asigned a label apart from female

Unlike other major religions, Judaism is as much an ethnicity as a religion.

No one is a Catholic-American or a Presbyterian-American.

But Jews are Jewish-American as Italians are Italian-American.

Regardless of our country of origin we are considered Jews. We can be atheist, orthodox, convert Christianity and we will still be Jewish.

@spiced -- Hear! Hear! I place high value on being a mensch to the fullest extent of my capability whenever possible. I also have a huge weakness for falafel and tahina. And I share your sentiments for the people in Pittsburg.

@DaringDavid you are entitled to your opinion. I'vebeen called anti-Semetic by my own family. No I'm a cultural Jew.

2

Word. This hatred is always just under the surface, waiting to be released. We must always be vigilant.

Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:210325
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.