Agnostic.com

27 7

Hey everyone!
I'm a new member here, and I'm looking for some guidance from someone who has been where I am.

A local establishment is holding a "Does god exist" debate and I have been asked to participate as the non-theist host.

I come from a family of theists, and am not "out" as a non believer. Coincidentally, I have anxieties about participating in this event and possibly outing myself to the community. Two of my sisters are out as non-believers and are not treated noticeably worse by my family members as far as i know.

I am very passionate about debate and philosophy and am very interested in this opportunity. I have been vorciously consuming content of debates and religious philosophy for the 2 years i have been de-converted. I'm itching for this oppurtunity but I'm not sure if possibly disclosing my status of belief would be worth the slight fulfillment of a low-key casual debate in a small venue.

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks for reading!

Sr9090 4 Feb 18
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27 comments

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0

If you're not "out" a phrase that doesn't belong to this group - why did anyone think of asking you to participate in this debate?

actually, "out" is a word (not a phrase) used quite often on this site to indicate that the person in question is no longer hiding his/her lack of theism. it is a perfectly appropriate word on this site.

g

@genessa That's what I was thinking. We use "out" all the time here. I definitely consider myself an "out" atheist. I hide it from nobody.

Im a known non-theist to my inner circle, but not my family and the public

5

I can understand that you are apprehensive about this. In the US freedom of speech doesn't mean the same as in most western countries. Unfortunately there are far too many people with guns who are happy to shoot you if you don't agree with them. I wish you luck and be brave.

4

if your out sisters are not treated worse by your family, then you should be okay. if the event itself would be stressful, that's another story, but if you think you'd enjoy it, go for it!

g

4

You could be an impartial host, keep your own views to one side and ensure a free debate, a win-win. You never know it might open peoples minds if you let them think it out themselves. 🙂

@irascible Ah, you assume, that I assume, that theists are capable of thinking....I did say 'might' 😉

4

@Sr9090 -- Well, here we have a situation in which there is no rational prediction that can be made regarding the outcome of your participation in it. Because of that, you choose to do it and find out what comes of it after the fact, or you choose not to do it and never know what would have happened. This is not a decision any of us are qualified to make for you and you should know that whatever any of us have experienced in similar situations will most likely not be anything like what yours will be.

So, make a decision, then let us know what it was and how it turned out for you. All I can say is, if it were me, I would do it. Having said that, you need to know that I am a genuine in your face DILLIGAF who is old enough to not be in the least worried about how I look to others -- particularly the religious.

I agree; it is your decision. As a young man, I left my fundamentalist family and joined the Army. I've had little to no contact with them since my mother died, and do not regret my decision to leave. Although, life without family to help during tough times was difficult, I do not regret my decision. I'm sure they think the devil has me, and will take me to hell one day. They are delusional...believe the Earth was created a few thousand years ago, that dinosaurs and mend shared the Earth together, schools are wrong to teach Evolution, etc. We have nothing in common.

3

I love the enthusiasm of the newly converted, but it's in vain. Arguments, facts, even scientific studies don't change people's minds..just consider all the fanatical Trumpanzees.

I advise you to skip debates, and whenever someone brings up religion, simply look bored, mumble "Um, hum-that's nice," while glancing at your watch..then immediately wander off as though you suddenly remember something you have to do.

If someone corners you and starts insisting you attend church or do some other religious nonsense, you could murmur, "That's for you, not me," and immediately change the subject. If they start to pressure you, follow the advice in paragraph two.

This technique quickly trains even the most annoying relatives to avoid religious subjects.

3

My family is , Baptist and some are Pentecostal Holiness so all of them are but I have never believed in any of that stuff. I used to tell them when I was a child that I did not believe and they would be angry with me. Now they just pray for me. I don't mind, it shows they love me and are thinking of me and it gives them a good feeling to pray for someone they love.
I am sorry for anyone that feels they have to hide what they are whether it be because you are gay or believe differently. Life is too to be someone else. But if you have elderly parents, I can also understand you wanting to spare them a heartache.
I do not know if you should go and host this event but I think it will be an opportunity you will regret missing if you don't go and do it. I believe at the end of life, we all regret missing out of stuff we could have done to tried to do.

I agree. It is truly tragic that people in my situation have to put on a facade. Its one of the reasons I support this kind of thing

3

Do it! You like the subject and it's a rare opportunity. You will come out eventually and will regret not having done it. How did they know to invite you if you're not "out?"

lerlo Level 8 Feb 19, 2019

Im out to my inner circle, and i expressed interest to them

2

You need to talk to your sisters. If they aren't treated differently great, but you don't seem to know. My wife and I are both atheist so we have a support system.

2

You’ll be the moderator? If so, why not maintain a neutral position if you don’t want to disclose?

UUNJ Level 8 Feb 19, 2019

Should be pretty easy and also helps to put pros and cons on a scale for yourself too.

2

If you are excited about it, i say do it. Maybe it will be the bridge to start discussion to get you out. Even though i'm not in, i find that my theist family memebers and friends do not believe i'm an atheist, and pretty much ignore that fact about me.

However, as all things that make folks struggle, my advice is: consider risk vs. benefit. If you think the benefit of that excitement and the opportunity for knowledge gained from the debate will be greater than the discomfort of the disscussion with your family.... Do it. If you are not in a place to have that debate with your family after revelation you are an atheist, maybe decline. ??

Keep us posted!

2

There are a tremendous amount of thought experiments on the existence of a god. Read these and utilize their structure as reference.

2

If you have the support of two "out" sisters is it not just a small step for you ?

1

i think you should wait before doing such a big event. reason is, you have alot on your mind and you may make yourself hold back, leading yourself to feel like you werent completely present. i just see myself in your shoes i wouldnt do it. i have gradually come out to my family over my lifetime. i never came out to my dad before he died but he would have disowned me. there was no point it would only hurt my mother. focus on one thing at a time. attend similar events then step up.

1

Who is wanting the debate? If it is a religious organization then I would recommend against it as they will have the audience packed with their supporters and will claim victory no matter what happens.
All you will end up doing is giving them publicity.
Most experienced atheist debaters would recommend against it unless you are very knowledgeable in apologetics.

Im versed enough in apologetics that they are like "spot the fallacy" flashcards to me. This is a very casual event put on my a neutral party

1

Go for it. You should not live in fear of condemnation. Who knows there may be a soul mate in the audience that you would never have met if you had not....
However as "host" you should not be expressing your opinions at all

I don't live in fear of condemnation. It's nice to be comfortble where I live though and nobody's business what I believe or don't believe. Just as it's none of my business to bother them.

@morlll I have to ask why did they ask you to do this if you have not "come out" ?

@creative51 I come from white working class England. Although you would not have the trouble you get in the US for being a non-believer. The Orange lodge would target catholics and vice versa, any gay, trans or different ethnicities would be targeted too. I always stood my ground and stood up for others too. Thankfully I also moved.

@273kelvin, @creative51 I said in a thread above I wouldn't go. It's certainly not a place I'd take a "stand". Why bother? What good would come from it? I'd venture none.

@273kelvin a friend was asked to host, but he is not interested as he is pretty apathetic to the conversation. I was asked by him after i showed interest

@morlll "What good can come of it?" Whilst I very much doubt that anyone from either side will suddenly see the light and convert to the other opinion. It may very well help to dispel misconceptions. Putting a human/humane face on the atheist standpoint can only be a good thing and perhaps stop nutters like this [agnostic.com] . Also there may be wavering theists there who are curious. We have have quite a few on here, which I for one have always treated with politeness and respect.

1

I am curious as to what is your roll as 'host'?

I would be basically be arguing that we don't yet have conclusive evidence for a god and holding my partners arguments to scrutiny. From what i understand, his arguments of choice are the 5 ways of thomas acquinas, which are pretty easy to criticise

@Sr9090 thanks! I wasn't familiar with the term. It is common, I believe, for debate participants to argue points of view they don't actually believe so I am not convinced that you would neccessarily be outing yourself by taking the "no god" view point unless you want to. Good Luck!

1

Welcome to the party

Marz Level 7 Feb 19, 2019
1

You could, alternatively, ask to represent an alternate theory, not listed in the Yes/No category. Not because you believe it, but instead as the devil's advocate for ideas unrepresented by the question.

For example, the idea that the collective energy of all living beings is the energy that started the big bang and after all life in the universe dies out, that energy will collect at the center of the universe and begin another big bang cycle.

Keita Level 5 Feb 19, 2019
1

Is this going to be an Abrahamic religion?

There are so many other religions they reject.

Silliness.

0

Isn't it hard to be close to people when you can't speak your true thoughts? I feel slightly guilty saying this because it isn't to cause you discord with your family, but it seems the discord is already inside of yourself.

0

Treat it as an academic debate. You are playing the role of the non-theist. Do your research regarding previous arguments and construct your own way of saying it. If you become impassioned about your non-belief the theist will take you down. Know your argument, with academic references, and focus on delivering your conclusion and why. Taking an angle on Thomas Aquinas and St Augustine can; 1) find you an argument,2) impress the theist, and 3) probably outwit the theists by using their own people to make a contrary argument. That is how I would approach it. Good luck!

0

Hmmm. I don't think you will convince them of their misconceptions. Even presented with sound, logical proof, they will always resort to the "you gotta have faith" statement. Let them go their way and you go yours.

0

Some suggestions for the debate: Ask them if we are talking about a Creator or about a personal god who intervenes in our daily lives. Tailor your responses accordingly. If you ask a question, insist that they answer it and don't allow them to switch to the "Well, what about....?" tactic. Pin them down! If you are comfortable with your knowledge of the Bible, bring one with you and look up the references right there or better yet, hand the Bible to them and have them look it up. Google Bible Inconsistencies and contradictions and print out a few with Chapter and Verse included so you will have them ready.

0

In all honesty, if I were you, I would do it only if I were planning to leave that community permanently.

0

Faith by definition isn't proof.

I don't think I'd go unless it's to bolster your relationship with your sisters. It sounds like a show to get you back into the flock. There's no point in arguing with burning bushes talking to you people. It's not going to go anywhere.

faithDictionary result for faith
/fāTH/Submit
noun

  1. complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
    "this restores one's faith in politicians"
    synonyms: trust, belief, confidence, conviction, credence, reliance, dependence; More
  2. strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.
    synonyms: religion, church, sect, denomination, persuasion, religious persuasion, religious belief, belief, code of belief, ideology, creed, teaching, dogma, doctrine
    "she gave her life for her faith"
    Phrases
    break faith — be disloyal (or loyal).
    "an attempt to make us break faith with our customers"
    Origin

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