Agnostic.com

118 17

I'm a middle school Science teacher. I have to say that I HATE it when my students claim they are Atheist or Agnostic.

It bothers me because I came to be Agnostic/Atheist through research over the years. I took several Science and Ancient Greek and Roman classes (I was a History major and Science minor). I've been to Italy, Turkey and Greece. I've read countless books on early Christianity, the Bible and secular authors.

So it bugs me when kids say they are Atheists, without doing any real research. I'm sure they are just repeating what a family member has told them. However, it still bothers me.

Can anyone relate?

Tomofhb 5 May 5
Share

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

118 comments (51 - 75)

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

5

A little bit.

I've been an atheist since I was a child, I just didn't know the word for it and my arguments probably wouldn't have impressed anyone, but my parents were believers so what I had I achieved by my own reasoning.

Still, when I grew up there were kids who stood up in biology class and challenged the teacher with bullshit pseudoscience. So l believe this constitutes a step in the right direction. .

5

What has that got to do with teaching science ?. If anything it should make your job easier because they do not have to ditch creationist nonsense before accepting scientific facts.

I talk with my students often and it comes up.

@Tomofhb fair enough but as a teacher should you get so emotionally involved ?

5

I think it would be best for a young person to be agnostic till they figure things out for themselves.

5

A time is coming when for many Agnostic/Atheist is the default position. It certainly is for many in Europe. Some people take a hard road to where they are going, some start out from there. The pioneers have long hard treks, but their children are simply born on land which is ploughed and planted. Do not envy them, you should regard it as a great achievement of your generation, that many children are born into a world where it is possible to be free from religion, without having to fight the whole community, or feel they will be vilified for it and need to arm themselves with knowledge to defend themselves. The ultimate hoped for destiny of Atheism/Agnostic is to become forgotten and irrelevant, as the theism to which they are a reaction becomes forgotten history itself.

4

Why in the world would they need to research their position? That is illogical. Some of us can make a decision based upon available facts as they are presented, and do not need much to conclude that god(s) and/or religion are not something in which we want to follow or believe. I was quite young when I decided my atheist/agnostic belief, and I would've been quite offended at the notion of having to PROVE my decision. How about instead of allowing their choice to bother you, perhaps you could be happy for their position. Research can offer a lot, but so can simple questioning of religions and god(s). Honestly, there really is not a whole lot of research necessary to make such a profound choice!

4

No, I never bought into any of the stuff and never felt the need to research it. Maybe your kids were just lucky enough to not have undo years of indoctrination.

4

I don't understand what research goes into becoming an atheist or agnostic. The only "research" I did was looking up the definitions of both terms to see which more closely defined my belief, or lack of belief, as the case may be.

Well, for the main poster to research the issue was mandatory to reach a conclusion; for you and many others there is no such need....and this is the beauty of freedom of thinking.

4

You HATE when your young charges claim to be Non-Believers? You do know what the alternative is right? Thats what I hate....when Young people age 6 to 18 who don't know squat about much at all but they will try to convince someone with an entire lifes experience and 20 plus years of education that there is a GOD, and they just know it cause the parents and the pastor and their friends parents have all gang-brain-washed their lil pea brains, thats what I HATE. No sir, Your students, as the WHO once said, "The Kids are Allright"....

Good point

4

Just out of curiosity , why would a teacher even know whether a student is religious or atheist ?

It was probably kids having a conversation amongst themselves. Depending upon where you live it’s not uncommon. I grew up in a small town where everyone was either catholic or Lutheran and everyone knew which church you belonged to. Wasn’t uncommon for church conversations to happen. Not from the teachers or via instruction, but amongst the students

They tell me. We talk about lots of things going on I their lives. It comes up.

People volunteer their views on religion all the time in all manner of conversation and settings. How wouldn’t this come up?

4

My granddaughter came to her Atheist views from her own thinking
I was surprised when she first said something about it but in talking to her she gets it.
My son said he never believed.
I’ve also met a number of people who said they stopped believing around the preteen years.
I think it’s better to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Another thought, what if they are just repeating what an adult said? Is that any different than the kid that says they are catholic or baptist or Hindu?

As a teen I went through a phase where I thought god was evil, I wish I had a clue that atheist was an option. Instead I went through some tough times and became super devout Christian for the next 30 years.

So I get the concern that kids might be trying on a label for the wrong reasons, but I suspect for a lot of them it’s real (they don’t have as many years of brainwashing to undo) and even if it’s not at least they are aware of the option.

That's my point, I think they are repeating what an adult said. I guess I'd like them to do a little research first. It doesn't take much. Reading the Bible was a big turning point for me.

Don't get me wrong, I'm proud of them.

4

Everyone reaches this point in their own individual way. We can’t read their minds. We should celebrate their courage and engage them in discussions.

Good point

4

Overall that is positive. A good start. They can do research later.

Yeah maybe, I just came to it slowly over years.

Yes! Maybe that's it.

4

Maybe you could develop a reading list for them to give them more knowledge about the path they have chosen.

4

I hate it when children simply adopt the beliefs and morals of those around them - but that is what children do. I hate that at school children are taught how to pass tests and have no training in independent thought.
A child leaves school with no idea of how to analyse an argument, independently form their own point of view and construct their own argument.
So they go through life sucking in the media viewpoint of their choice, without the ability to research, analyse, assess and think for themselves.

Good point.

4

If they haven't been brainwashed to believe the fairy tales, it makes perfect sense.

Would you feel the same way if they didn't believe in Santa because their parents didn't go with the fantasy?

LOL we chose the same example.

@mooredolezal
Ha! It does seem like the best example.

@Athena how are things in Toronto?

@Athena I have always heard good things about it.

@mooredolezal

Thank you. It's home for me and I love it!

@Athena I looked at your profile and we have a lot in common politically and religiously. I am a Sam Harris fan too, he is such a genius isn't he?

@Athena you are very funny too! I am going to bed, I hope we can chat again sometime.

@mooredolezal

Sam is one of my favourite humans. And he is truly a genius.

@Athena it is so sad that Hitch is gone. He and George Carlin. Such great promoters of antitheism.

@Athena hatred is not a good thing, but in reading your comments it was refreshing to see someone who seems to despise Trump and religion as much as I do! I look forward to the day when neither of them are anything but faded bad memories.

@mooredolezal

Two great men who made us think and laugh.

@mooredolezal

He's maggot poo.

@Athena LOL. Never heard that one. So what keeps you up so late besides me?

@Athena I really must get to sleep. TTYL

3

I take your point some, yes.

3

All it takes is a little common sense to figure out that religions are bullshit. I didn’t come out as an atheist until my parents were both dead but only because I didn’t want to cause a fight in the family. Even now I don’t discuss my atheism among my religious friends as I’d just as soon avoid confrontations and I’ve discovered it’s quite pointless to argue about religion with a religious person.

3

All children are born atheists, then they are being brainwashed by their parents as religious, so those kids haven't been exposed to religion's poison therefore they have remained atheist.

NR92 Level 6 May 6, 2019
3

Dood, they're on your side, don't get pissy about it, embrace em'.

3

No. I'm glad when people even might be agnostic.

3

Do you hate it as much when they say they are Catholic, Buhdist, Jewish, Tauoist or any other religion? As a teacher would you ever consider asking one of those religious persons to defend their faith or lack thereof, if not, you still have a lot to learn.

Im smart enough so, i think for my self, so i don't need an explanation of some one opinion on how reality is. I only challenge people who force me to do it, but i try to show my desagree in diferents ways.

3

I think you are underestimating a teenager's ability to research and make decisions for themselves. I loved learning as early as I can remember. My mother bought me a set of records at the age of four called "listen and learn". I knew how to use my toy record player and had taught myself to read before I went to kindergarten at the age of five. I asked questions and learned how to use a card catalog before I left grade school to do research on topics that peaked my interest. I knew that the answers I was getting in Sunday school were bullshit and weren't logically sound by the time I was in the eighth grade. I started learning about other Christian denominations in early high school and had determined that they were all flawed before I became a sophomore. By the time I was a junior I had studied about Hinduism, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Shintoism, and a number of pagan religions from around the world. By 1983 I knew that I was agnostic before I even left high school without the ease and availability of the internet. I imagine researching all of that today would take far less effort and be readily available to any critical thinking teenager today.

What is it about the ability to understand critical thinking and religious doctrine that you think is too difficult for a teenager to grasp?

3

Not really. Children should have the freedom to be wrong and not judged for it, to safely "try out" and explore different ideas and experiences and figure things out. It's okay to be wrong! It's okay to not know and learn over time! That's what school is for.

Instead of judging them why not engage them in conversation and ask them questions to cultivate their reasoning and critical thinking skills. Dont push them in any direction, instead ask open-ended questions that helps them follow whatever path their thinking takes them. The journey of mistaken thinking and backtracking is just as important as to what ever destination they arrive at. In fact, unless one has gone back and forth hundreds of times and refined their arguments using their own knowledge and experience I'm hesitant to say someone has given anything "serious thought".

Let them make their claims but prompt them to explore it further. What made them think that way. A person, a book, a personal experience? Then have them elaborate, explicitly explain the logic and reasoning. Don't debate, just ask clarifying questions that prompt further exploration and refinement. Good luck.

3

Find out why they believe that some kids are smarter and more mature than you think. Don't jump to conclusions

3

So many comments here. Are you really going to read all this? I will share my opinion anyways.

All you need to do to be agnostic is be aware that there are other options for religious belief, this can take the form of knowing about other religions or knowing that some people don't believe, or both. Second you only need to be able to think critically until you realize that there is no way to know for sure if there is a god, or gods or any higher spiritual power. Thats it. For me, no true research was required, just a 30 minute conversation with a Hindu and a few minutes of thinking for myself.

Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:342163
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.