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Maybe this is a wierd question...is "coming out" as an atheist in any way similar to coming out as gay? A gay friend recently discussed with me the fears, feelings and reactions he dealt with when coming out to certain members of his family. I know myself that revealing atheism can affect relationships like sn atomic bomb. People may feel "betrayed" to discover a loved one's atheism. I don't want to diminish anyone's experience by equating it with my own, but it seems like that moment of realizing that what one is about to say may change a relationship forever (or even end it abruptly) carries the same emotional import,,,

MensaGuy63 4 May 11
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0

For the life of me I can't seem to come to 'grips' with this " I'm an Agnostic Atheist" idea/comment.
To put it in simple terms, is NOT an Agnostic simply one who is UNSURE as to whether a god, etc, actually exists and an Atheist simply is one denies/rejects the possibility that ANY God, etc, has ever or will ever exist because it cannot be proven empirically and undeniably?
Therefore, in simple terms, could it not be said that an Agnostic Atheist, a misnomer imho, is nothing more than a person who NOT ready to be an Atheist simply because he/she is AFRAID that he/she may just be wrong and cause offence to this Supreme Entity, i.e. 'hedging their bets' in simply terms.
Why try to walk the middle of the road where the traffic is heaviest when the sides are much less congested in the first place.
Either admit openly and clearly that you ARE an Atheist and stand tall and proud or just remain in closet so to speak and go along with the flow of the flock.

Agnostic isn't a stop on the way to atheist. One is a statement of knowledge the other is a statement of belief.

@CommonHuman where does someone like me fall in that spectrum? I’m someone who does not know if a deity exists. I also believe one cannot know if a deity does or does not exist.

@CommonHuman That, imho, is merely an interpretation very similar to how anyone also interprets the bible to suit their own ends and desires, etc.

@CommonHuman, @Friskycat Weigh up the Pros and Cons on the subject in hand, look into each of them one by one with a clear and open mind seeing which has proven, tried and tested empirical evidence to back up the claim/theory, etc, and which has none, the make up your own mid and stick with it because Logic and Reasoning combined with Empirically Proven, Undeniable and Unfalsifiable Evidence ARE hre TRUE realities in life and of life itself.

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This is something that people in Europe cannot understand. Virtually nobody here cares. It seems to be an affliction peculiar to the USA as far as christianity is concerned.
However, in other religiously fanatical countries, such as Pakistan, the issue becomes a matter of life or death. Pay obeissance to Allah and his prophet, or be slaughtered. So I would prefer your US problem.

Agree.

7

I came out as both trans and atheist at the same time. Similar reactions to each including my family disowning me.

Dont want to sound corny and no this is not a commercial. But you have a family here.

Do you think one required more courage than the other?

Doubly hard for indoctrinated Christians to fathom - but I feel that given time they might even start to question their black or white view of the world.
...... or am I being over-optimistic?

6

Just remember... It's not YOU who has the problem.... It's EVERYONE ELSE around you! (Xtians)

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I do not usually address these type questions (mostly due to interest, not a judgment on the question's value). It is interesting, I have been an atheist for over 45 years, but have only ever told about a dozen people in my lifetime.

I do feel that it has a similar hesitation and fear of acceptance as coming out as a gay. This is not to equate the two as equivalent. Just that there are similar feelings.

I never came out officially with my family as I never felt that they would understand or accept. I have taught high school science for 30 years and always felt that I had to pad very carefully when the topic of religion arose. I never felt that I could allow my colleagues or my students know. Parents are very unforgiving when they are aroused, rightfully or wrongfully.

Most of my life it felt that there was stigma attached to being atheist. It has only been recently that secularism has reduced the fear of stigmatism in many circumstances. These days I think very little about my atheism or religion in general. I did recently respond to a student question about believing in Jesus in the negative. But I didn't feel that that particular group was going anywhere with the response.

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My decision to eschew all religious brainwashing out of my mind and reject all religions came naturally and logically for me after examining all the evidence, reading all the religious books and seeing how riduculous and detestable they all are. But it was a personal decision. Nobody has, in my family, disowned me or rejected me, they are all raving catholics, but they have never given me any sign of scorn or rejection, except for the typical eye rolling whenever I am forced to express my disapproval of some of the hypocritical things I see. Homosexuals were born that way and have no choice in the way they are, ignorant people and religious fanatics are constantly attacking them, it is definitely much tougher for them.

Agreed. It's almost like confessing to a blemish.

Thank you!!

5

I agree with Pam to an extent, in that atheism is more of a decision than being gay, bi, or trans (I am gay). However, the two ARE similar in what we have to deal with in the reactions of, and treatment by, others, depending on the culture and subculture you live in. Here in America, growing up in a pentacostal family, the two have felt similar to me, but with coming out as gay being harder and taking me longer. Your mileage may vary.

But there is another way the two are similar. Pam said that atheism is a choice. Is it? I think we can lie to ourselves and engage in wishful thinking if a fairytale paradigm is attractive to us. But I, for one, can't make myself believe that lie; can't believe something that simply doesn't add up factually. The label of atheist is a choice, just as the label agnostic is. (I am both and like the term atheist agnostic, personally.) But lack of belief in woo is not really a choice, as far as I am concerned.

A very good friend of mine, since our childhood in the 50s, is a devout Roman Catholic and a homosexual. He was fine accepting my atheism, which certainly didn't upset our friendship.
However, some 45 years ago he was really agitated and nervous before confessing his sexuality. I laughed and told him I had gathered that already. After that, when we went out together for a meal and a good looking couple entered, I would wink at him and ask "Should we split them up?".

@Petter My first boyfriend was(still is) Roman Catholic. It did not end well, though honestly it was his conservative politics I finally could not tolerate. The cognitive dissonance was too much. I will never really comprehend Log Cabin Republicans, lol.
Religion, in practice, is what the individual makes of it, so I can look past that if the person's values make sense to me.

4

Bringing forward any controversial part of yourself brings similar insecurities and sometimes real social consequences.

MsAl Level 8 May 11, 2019
4

Gay people have been beaten, murdered and discriminated against in America and across the world. Their treatment is much worse than that of atheists in America.

At age 13, I became an atheist when I realized the Bible is just a book of stories written by men.

I confidently tell obnoxious, proselytizing Christians I am an atheist.

"I'm sorry," they say. I'm not, I reply cheerfully. "I chose rational thought instead of magical beliefs." That shuts them up.

Friends love me for who I am. The only person who rejected me for being an atheist is my Jehovah's Witness cousin.

Good for you honey

People have also been beaten and killed for not following God or for following the wrong one. Religions were spread by force of death. Modern America doesn't officially allow this type of behavior anymore for gays or atheists. Good for you for being cheerful and outgoing but that doesn't mean people shouldn't be fearful of social consequences in their own lives. I'm currently elsewhere on the spectrum but My last relationship was a long term same sex one. I was and am much more at ease telling people about that than being an atheist. One doesn't invalidate the other.

@bobwjr [Whoops]

4

Where I live, it’s unusual to be atheist, but there isn’t any stigma attached to saying you are. I think there is still a section of society here who are hostile to gays. Some evangelical Christian churches run aversion programmes to try to turn gays straight. I don’t know of any such programmes aimed at turning atheists into believers. I’m talking about Northern Ireland, where gay marriage is still illegal, but in the rest of the UK I think nobody cares much about either homosexuality or atheism and it’s not really anything anyone would need to hide. There is general apathy about religion in the UK.and in most of Europe too, and gays don’t need to “come out” any more, they are already “ out and proud “. Like @Petter, I think as far as Christianity is concerned, these attitudes still only apply in the USA.

Yet strangely, in the officially Catholic Republic of Ireland (alias Southern Iteland) same sex marriage is legal.
Maybe it's to do with protestant politicians?

@Petter of course it is...the general public want change...they are way ahead of the politicians in this case, and on abortion too. It’s the DUP and their Petitions of Concern which are keeping us in the Dark Ages.

@Marionville It's the DUP that is screwing up an amicable, mutually beneficial version of Brexit, for their own political ends. Look at how much money they extorted from the Tories for their parliamentary support two years ago.

@Petter You don’t need to tell me! I have used every expletive in the book to describe what I think of them!

@Marionville Be like Shakespeare, invent some new ones. SDUPID?

3

Not being gay, I cannot speak to that, at all. I'm not even going to try.
It's not my experience, and I'm not going to try to presume what that's like.

As an atheist, I don't believe I ever "came out".
I've never hidden my non-belief in my adulthood, and rarely hidden my disdain for religion.
I have never really cared what the reactions of others might be.
Not even family. I'm not going to hide who I am, or what I believe, just to
spare the feelings of people who believe in delusions.
I don't respect religion, so I honestly don't respect the beliefs of those who
adhere to it. I'll respect the people on an individual, case by case basis, but
overall, I could give shit about how other people feel about my atheism.

3

I’d say that coming out as gay is generally much more difficult.

Fucking right!!!!
After all you don’t have to come out as Atheist to function in society.

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I think coming out as gay is an assertion of an existing state of affairs. It is a realization of a inner truth.
Atheism is more of a negation of an unfortunate state of falsehood. As such those you come out to are rejected, whilst being gay is seeking acceptance.
Obviously the two cross over, but atheism does not have a necessary content, it is essentially negative.
Lots of other dependent factors. I image that coming out as an atheist does not require the same courage as coming out as gay.

In the US, it very much depends on what region of the country you live in, and whether you live in an urban or rural area.

@Sticks48 Yes, what I meant by "Lots of other dependent factors. "
But the question requires a generalisation, and that is what I primarily addressed

Thank you!!!

3

It can be very difficult to let others know but since it's a decision one makes and being gay is not, I don't think there's any way to equate these things. I am an atheist after using my intelligence and life experiences to come to the conclusion that I don't believe in a god. One of my children was born gay. They are two very different things though sharing this information can have some of the same feelings and concerns.

My father had 3 siblings. One, like him, hetero, one homosexual and one lesbian. None exactly religious, accepting of others' choices of belief. I was encouraded to decide for myself, in both instances, as were my children.
I am an enthusiastic hetero and devout atheist, the norm in our family!

2

I never had to come out as atheist to my family. It wasn't really a topic of discussion. I remember I gave my mom a little shit for continuing to go to mass after she had been treated (the pastor of her church was a big of a blowhard who could never seem to find paperwork you needed...unless of course you're putting in the plate every week..but I digress) She said "just let me believe what I want to" so I did.

Some of my friends..however.. slightly different story. After I cam out as atheist to one, which was probably 10 years ago..and I had been non-believer for over 10 years at that point. He was/is in some form of denial. "well.. you're Agnostic, right? you think there is a higher power it's just.." Me: No, I'm atheist. I don't believe is god or gods. When I'm at his house he will grab my hand when he says grace, and even as recently as 6 month ago, his wife started in on me with "you don't believe in like...miracles?" and have even bought me books by religious authors for Christmas

I have no idea what it's like to come out as gay, and I won't be so bold as to claim any similarities..I'll venture to guess that there are some parallel lines in that people don't want to believe that you are who you are, and try to make excuses or change the wording around so it isn't what you're saying it is. or even go so far as to try to nudge you in what they see as the right direction.

Im a lesbian, coming out as both was incredibly difficult. I chose coming out.

2

The two are not equal. I haven’t seen anyone tortured to death for being Atheist.

uh - many have been.

@JeffMesser
Uhh- not in recent times

You haven't been to Pakistan, amongst other places.

@Petter
Actually I have, but I don’t live there and the two topics are still different.

@Petter
Everyone makes far too big a deal of being Atheist, mostly the Atheists.
I mind my own business and move through life just fine.

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Your? is very apt, because we are in the same position as gay and lesbian people were a couple decades ago as far as visibility and acceptance with most Americans. We therefore experience similar things when we come out as non-believers.

1

I've had to do both. It is equally stressful and worrisome. But I did it regardless.

1

No the question is not weird in the US. In most other countries it would be, but in the US religious people are so inflexible that the rest of the world just wonders if there is something mentally wrong with them.

1

It is dependent upon the individual. For me, it was simply a matter of weighing what mattered, then acting on it. I blew off a number of relatives and a gaggle of friends, but in terms of my life and where I needed it to go, there was no contest.

1

I could see if you came from a very religious family that it could have some of the same repercussions in telling that family you are atheist as telling them you are guy. Either one you may be disowned and pressured into changing your ways or ideas, but this would be from that family. Now in society, it is much harder and the repercussions more server to come out as gay. I came out in a religious family as atheist when I was only 12 years old, they all preached at me and said it was just a phase and I would come around, that never happen and yes about half of my family have no contact with me, but I am ok with that. When I meet new people I like and think I would like to build a friendship I put it out there right away, so as not to waist my time or theirs if this is something they cannot accept.

1

I think you answered your own question with a resounding yes.

1

There is not much difference in them due peoples belief in religious bs. Those religious people see it as sin and your going to hell. Only people on this web site know that I'm pan sexual. To be honest I'm thinking about changing that title to gay. I have more desire for men than women these days. So good luck with your journey of enlightenment.

1

I don’t give a damn what anybody thinks about my religious opinions. I think it’s best to be honest and open about ourselves, projecting poise and self confidence. Most people are not all that interested in our various opinions anyway.

1

Another fundamental difference: Coming out gay is not a criticism of heterosexuality whereas coming out atheist is a direct confrontation to theism, and can therefore expect to met with explosive anger in some circles. Peace.

0

Not really. Most white supremacists won't beat or kill you. Neither will most evangelicals - they will pity you and try to "reason" with you.

I beg to differ, I have been assaulted more than a few times for being an atheist. My Ex even set me on fire when I told her. I have had friends leave and stop talking to me.

@DavidErik79 I don't or didn't intend to say it doesn't have its dangers, just, usually, not as many. I am not surprised by anything fundies do. I hope you are well and, yes, I've had people leave when they couldn't "turn" me toward the light.

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