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When the Buddha obtained enlightenment he went out to teach his students asked,

are you a god? and the Buddha answered no I'm not a god,

and the student asked then are you a man?, and the Buddha said no I'm not a man.

the student asked what are you?, and the Buddha said I am awake.

can someone explain to me what this means I don't understand

m16566 7 May 14
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12

A myriad of bubbles were floating on the surface of a stream.

"What are you?" I cried to them as they passed.

"I am a bubble, of course!", nearly a myriad of bubbles replied, and there was surprise and indignation in their voices.

But here and there a lone bubble replied "We are this stream", and there was neither surprise nor indignation in their voices, merely a quiet certitude.

Wei wu wei

The Buddha realized he was the stream and not a bubble.

In other words he realized that he was the universe expressing itself and that this was a more accurate description of him than to call him a man.

What he was really denying in denying that he was a man was the viewpoint that a man is a separate different entity living in the universe, rather than being part of the universe.

It's not that he thought he wasn't a man, per se. It's that he realized that the differentiation between man and reality create an illusory form of thinking.

What's going to really mess with your head is when I say that everything I just said is wrong.

Real truth cannot be expressed in words. Words can give you an approximation. Words can enlighten experience with shared experience. But ultimately reality has to be experienced, it can't be explained.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is welcome to try to explain the taste of chocolate to someone who's never tried it.

Your description is brilliant.
the only thing I have to offer is my own experience, I know there is no such thing as permanent each person's reality is different.
what I experienced during my own meditation is that I am part of the general flow of the universe in harmony with it. this is a way for the universe to know itself.
I'm sad when it's over

@m16566 LOL, yeah, but is it ever really truly over? This is the knife edge of the problem between those who consider themselves spiritual, and those who consider themselves whatever label they see fit to use, but who ultimately believe that it's all a great cosmic accident.

You're the river.

The river keeps on flowing.

Pretty airtight logic to me.

I read something recently, I think it was on SAND, regarding two things that can illuminate truth, in this person's point of view and experience.

These two things were science and Zen.

I second this, it really resonated with me.

@m16566 thanks for the kudos, by the way.

9

I can explain if you can listen.

I think it’s important to explain a few things. First I don’t believe Buddhism is a religion rather then a way to exist or a philosophical way to perceive the world around us. I am working towards becoming a practicing Buddhist.

Buddha is not a name, It means “a person who is awake.” A buddha is awake to reality. This is enlightenment. One who is free of the burdens of our society. When we die we reach peace or “Nirvana.”

Buddha, is typically a reference to Siddhartha Gautama who lived in Nepal about 2000 years ago.

So... “I am awake”
Means he’s reached enlightenment which is the goal of Buddhism. What it means is different to everyone, but the easiest explanation would be that he’s free from all hate, envy, greed, and evil social constructs.

does that mean that ego ambition and pride are sources of suffering?

can I reduce my own suffering by being useful to others?

@m16566 that depends on you. It’s a personal journey and not for anyone else to judge. Perhaps we shouldn’t even judge ourselves.

For myself I’m not looking to teach Nirvana or some state of extra corporeal state.

I just want to try and be a better me. A lot of Buddhism makes sense to me, some of it I find foolish.

I just want to try and be a better version of myself. This helps me keep myself in check.
Much like
Meditations – Marcus Aurelius

@m16566 Unchained yes. Ego is one facet which left to its own devices is destruction.

@darthfaja precisely

6

A fully awakened i.e. enlightened being, like the Buddha, is able to step outside of the cycle of existence (samsara) and is liberated from the cravings or attachments that cause discomfort or suffering (dukkha). In the mythology, this refers to achieving nirvana and being freed from infinite rebirths. In modern views (at least by some), this refers to breaking free of the patterns of behavior that cause suffering on a day to day basis.

The point is that the Buddha was just an ordinary man who became enlightened and achieved something much greater.

Beautiful well said

Maybe you can explain to me the Four Noble Truths, and the Eightfold Path

@m16566 Perhaps, but something tells me that you already know more than you're letting on. Regardless, I think you'd have a lot more to gain (and to offer) by finding a local Buddhist community with a good resident teacher who can offer you more personal guidance on your path. For that matter, there are a few online sanghas who also have quite a lot to provide. agnostic.com may not be the best forum for this, but I'm happy to discuss more in the [agnostic.com] group. Good luck!

5

Buddha was eating too damned many mushrooms.
That's what that means.

hahahahahahahahahaha

4

This was way before the technology allowed it, but I think he meant to say "I am Iron Man." Or words to that effect.

4

I think the Buddha is detaching from his ego.

At least he's trying to.

4

I think the Buddha meant that he had AWOKEN to the ways, etc, of the world and life, i.e. he gone from his sheltered and pampered existence as a Prince and had experienced the truths, etc, of life and the realities of it.

4

It means whatever you want it to mean. That's the thing with many such stories. They are open for interpretation. You will find that in the comments there are many plausible explanations what Buddha might have meant. If there was the on true explanation Buddha would have given that instead of being cryptic. Sometimes the point is the process of questioning itself that leads you further to "enlightenment". The answer is often less important than the questions.

Dietl Level 7 May 14, 2019

If you believe the stories (and I do mostly), the Buddha spoke in the ordinary language of the people and provided clear and complete answers which were well-suited to the situation of the individuals asking questions. There were some questions, the imponderables, that the Buddha chose not to answer because he didn't believe that would alleviate suffering.

Very well said
It’s about the journey

2

Defining himself by his state of consciousness, rather than by his relationship with others.

2

Whack, Whack, whack-whack-whack, WHACK !!!

Lol, indeed.

@FlippantLlama its a zen thing

2

It's means Buddha was a politician too.

2

Enlightened.

2

If memory serves, the Budda was a Prince raised in isolation from the world.

He didn't learn of aging, illness, or death until adulthood.

He went on a "walkabout" when he discovered such things existed, and had an epiphany... "Lead a life of moderation".

Very simplistic memory from an intro to world religions class taken several years ago.

camne Level 7 May 14, 2019

'Buddism was never intended to be a form of religion, it was merely a Philosophy BUT as usual throw in human traits and their desires for control, avarice, etc, etc, and soon a mere Philosophy becomes yet another Theology, or Theosophy as I like to call religions, emerges.
The real 'Philosophy' of the teachings of the Buddha were that Life with all its trials, tribulations, hardships, etc, is important and should embraced and enjoyed not matter how difficult it can get or be.

2

It means the guy asking the questions is getting duped, it doesn't have any meaning its just deliberately confusing.

1

Assuming this was even said...it's open to interpretation. We have take into account that Siddartha had no knowledge of science, of the universe as we know it today.

He couldn't have known that human life is a synergistic self-sustaining 60-120 year long set of chemical processes. He couldn't have known that these exact same processes, at
atomic scale , are used by the universe to make stars and planets. Perhaps other forms of life.

All he knew was his own sliver of the human experience, concepts defined by his language and society and confined by his own culture, which he rejected because it dissatisfied him in some way.

I would like to believe he was talking about how the people of his time saw men. Perhaps as husbands and fathers, as kings or warriors, as providers and protectors, as lovers of women and earners of wealth.

All of that he had, as a prince, but it did not make him happy. When he saw death and suffering juxtaposed against life and joy perhaps he saw it all as one big giant game. Reincarnation was a big concept in their culture, and the rule was do good and you get a better next life, do bad and to get a worse life. But those who had it worse sometimes had to do bad things to survive, preventing them from a good life, and those with access to priests got absolved of their sins and got a "good life" stamp all without helping the suffering. Who made up this cruel game!?

Siddartha, I think, started to reject all of it. He refused to play the game. He no longer wanted to play. He didn't want joy or suffering. He wanted nothingess. He didnt want to feel. He wanted to get as close to nonexistence as possible. This is, btw, the real concept of nirvana. The loss of the self. Reaching the state of nonexistence.

Through his meditative and ascetic practices, under the apocryphal Bohdi tree, I think Siddhartha found a way to lose his sense of self. This is the same feeling you get when you get lost in a book or movie and you lose your self awareness. However with meditation its a bit different, your mind thinks of nothing...it's as if you were a vegetable or dead.

This didnt happen overnight for Siddartha. In the beginning there were temptations of course, what we would term the lust for worldy things, but eventually those become a dim memory.

After that, one simply become more aware of one's place in the world, looking at it from the top, and seeing the big picture. How things connect, how you are a part of a whole, a construct. In this context there is no God or man, there is only the system and an awareness of being a part of it.

This is the 'wisdom' that comes from medidation that so many seek. I think this is what Siddartha meant by no longer being a God or man, but being awake, or in today's terms, more aware. And it's the popular pursuit of Buddhists, because we seem to be trapped in the leaves of an unstaisfying life, and sometimes you just want to get away from it all and see the forest, once in a while, and perhaps change course.

However, I believe Siddartha was experiencing a deep dissattisfaction with the rules of game, as he knew it. His awakening also includes the concept of recognizing past lives. Perhaps he looked at others people and animals and thinks, "that's me again, but in that state I'm just unaware of it all".

At some point, I think he got fed up of it. He wanted out, he wanted none of it. He didnt want to be ruled by feeling and emotions. He didnt want to be rewarded or punished by his actions. He didn't want this futile cycle of births and deaths. He didnt even want the awareness of it. There didnt seems to be any point in playing the game.

Essentially he didn't want to exist. He knew if he killed himself, he would be entering in to the same cycle of reincarnation and everything he learned would be lost. All he can do is simply not participate in life and the universe. Do nothing, be nothing. It's about as close to nonexiste as one can get. And when he dies and suppoosedly reborn again, from his perspective, he hopes to he will quickly discover the truth, and resume reaching nirvana, the state of nonexistence.

His entire goal is to simply not exist. To reject it all. To not participate. To neither be God nor man. To be nothing.

Buddhism is truly a nihilist belief system if you look at it. It is not joyful. Instead it is sorrowless, joyless, in the literal sense of the word. I am not a fan of Buddhism. I don't like what it's selling.

However, the meditative practices do offer some mental health benefits. Just don't become as nihilistic as poor Prince Siddartha, who rejected the narrow view of the world his society presented to him, but sadly was born in a time that did not know how amazing and complex this universe of ours is.

I think our universe is worth existing in.

Thank you for stating your points so clearly.

the point I profoundly disagree with is the lack of joy in the Buddhist philosophy.

this could not be further from the truth by eliminating desire we eliminate suffering and move to a state of joy it doesn't matter how great the universe is when were limited to only our own perceptions .

if we keep the precepts essentially don't hurt people, don't take their stuff and don't use intoxicants. and live mindfully there is a huge opportunity for joy

1

Think in terms of catagories.

1

Before he died, the Buddha also told his followers, don't believe in faith, don't build religious temples, don't wear religious symbols, and don't separate yourself from the world.

Ever taken a look at Buddhism?
Lots of talk about faith, lots of temples, lots of followers wearing symbols, and lots of monks in temples "making merit".

I wonder if they were listening?

Religion, you gotta love it (not).

Zen isn’t too bad.

Ornate temples with golden Buddha statues in impoverished areas is an insult to the teachings of the Buddha. Kinda like the Catholic church!

@jerry99 yes, and they suck in a lot of money too, like the RCC, from rich people looking to "make merit" for all the greedy shitty things they've done. Buddhism looks pretty and all that, but it's crap underneath, like all religions. Worse, like all religions, it says don't fix the problems here and now, but rather pray, die and go to heaven or nirvana. No thanks. I want to fix the problems here and now.

these monuments in poor countries do Inspire the people.
certainly the Buddha would not approve.
some people need visible reference points in order to seek commonality.
Buddhism is a religion with all the problems all religions have.
I've read of monks in Thailand the trade in guns child pronography and drugs.
none of that affects the underlined teaches .

@TheMiddleWay while that is true as a generalization, I don't consider religions as erring, but as fundamentally wrong, based on falsehoods.

@TheMiddleWay yes but as in all religions they never all agree on those teachings.

1

The perfect BS!

zesty Level 7 May 14, 2019

No, not really IF one were to take it for the TRUE essences of the teachings of and by the Buddha WITHOUT the religious undertones imho.

So try to explain the taste of chocolate to someone who's never tried it. I mean really this comment means nothing.

@Quarm There are certain ideas, like religion, so stupid that they don't deserve discussion.

1

Tree bark tea is the answer!

What it is the answer too, I have know idea!

0

A nice use of mixed up grammar.

I'm sure that any grammatical errors are mine not the Buddhas.
please tell me what you mean so that I can learn

0

It means she is a woman that is not sleep talking.

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