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There is a highly vocal group of deniers of the existence of Jesus. But frankly, they come across like most conspiracy theorists, overpassionate in their cause, unwilling to compromise, and (a sure sign) very touchy when you question their credentials.
In the end, it makes no difference whether this Jesus really existed in flesh and blood or whether he is a collective fiction.

Matias 8 Aug 18
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34 comments

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7

Actually, the deniers of Jesus' existence are like atheists in that they demand solid proof before saying ,yes, he existed. As of now, there is no evidence outside the bible for him. None.

Boom! And theres the most logical comment of the thread...

@ronnie40356 Thanks.

7

I could care less whether Jesus existed or not but I do firmly believe that Brian got the short end of the stick. 😆

It's because he was a very naughty boy

5

The Jesus believed in by religionists is certainly a fiction. There may have been a person by that name whom the mythmakers transformed into a sub-god. I understand that in real life he was a syphilitic, alcoholic goatfucker but that might be just a myth.

Senex Level 5 Aug 19, 2019

This.

wait a minit, I recognize this guy! Where ya been?!

@skado Hello, mate. I thought shaving the beard off was an effective disguise but you're too smart for me.

Absolutely!!!

5

I just read this interesting impartial essay on the subject:

[religioustolerance.org]

I lean toward thinking that there really was a flesh and blood Jesus but that much or most of what was written about him was made up. There’s no way to know with absolute certainty.

Most of the things Jesus is reported to have said seem very astute and commendable. They were written by someone, and that’s all that matters. I think of scriptures as an expression of collective human wisdom.

That business of sending ahead to borrow a donkey without permission to ride into Jerusalem so that prophecy would be fulfilled—that sounds like pure fraud. Also I don’t agree about Hell. Otherwise Jesus comes across as a pretty smart, gutsy guy.

If some people want to glorify and exaggerate his life and turn him into God, that is their right and I am not troubled. Myth creation is a form of artistic expression, sort of like “Star Wars”.

4

While there's no definitive answer, there is good reason to doubt:

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It's true that here on Agnostic.com, that anyone who says anything positive about religion will be criticized and perhaps labeled an "Christian apologist". I'm not saying a large majority of the members here do that, but I've often seen people give a hard time by other members for saying something non-critical about religion. I just think that people should be able to feel free to speak their minds without having to fear being jumped all over for saying something that varies (even if only slightly) from the popular opinions and feelings.

4

Oh, good grief. Whether or not he existed. He is dead. Dead, dead, dead. Like Buddha and Mohammed andm Odin and Freya. Not in existance anymore, if ever.

4

There were several individuals throughout history who claimed to be the son of god before the one xtians finally decided to latch on to and believe.

There is definitely a faction out there of of atheists who approach their atheism with equal the furvor of any AR wielding, nut case evangelical Christian or suicide bomb wearing, militant Islamic. I find both sides of the spectrum to be equally annoying, but at least the annoying atheists aren’t blowing up buildings or opening fire on unarmed civilians.

4

When one side says the creator of 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars knocked up a teenage Jewish girl, and you don't believe it, how do you compromise?

BD66 Level 8 Aug 18, 2019
4

It doesn’t matter one jot to me whether he was a real person or merely a fiction, although I think in all probability there was a man called Jesus, but he was mortal and not divine. I think like you do, and believe that being too adamant about anything seems to mirror the religious too much, something we have to be careful about.

3

Outside of the bible there is no material evidence for the existence of jesus. The Romans have no records if his execution, or of his or his parents appearance at the census in bethlehem (which didn't actually take place in bethlehem). Most accounts of his life appeared decades after his supposed death.

It could be that the Romans expunged records of him... But that sounds frightfully conspiratorial. Considering the Roman empire evolved into the Catholic Church, you'd think they'd reestablish the records they destroyed, for their own sake.

Now mohamed, he probably did exist.

Actually Jesus is mentioned in one text. The Koran. Mohammed refers to him as a great Prophet and there it ends

3

Pooh, defending idiotic superstitions Again today? Borrrriinng.....

3

There is no need for any credentials when someone makes a claim that can not be established without evidence. There is king kong the size of a large building actively living in New York. I do not have to be a biologist to say I do not believe it show me the evidence.

That being said, though I am more inclined to understand that there is no evidece for a historical Jesus, I also agree with you. There has been almost 2000 years of the Jesus cult. History simply does not care wether he was a live human being or not, neither does the religions followers. There is already irrufutable proof that the virgin part of the story was not made up for about 300 years yet the virgin birth is a main tentent of the religion. Facts are simply not important in religion, it has to wxist dispite the facts.

2

‘What is asserted without evidence may be dismissed without evidence.’

2

And your point is?

@Matias Interesting. Ben Okri once wrote,"The parables of Jesus have more power than Jesus". I think Okri was right. The stories go on forever, are interpreted and re-interpreted, and still serve as convenient illustrations of the alleged power of the alleged Jesus. I think there is more meat in a story than an argument about whether its central figure existed. Perhaps our problem as atheists/agnostics is that we quote scientific fact to people who reject science. Personally, I find more wondrous things in nature than in fantasy, but many will, I believe, never agree.

2

Well, I think it always makes some difference as to what is a historical fact as opposed to a historical fiction. I'd agree that it makes no difference to the religious claims surrounding historical jesus. But it would make some difference in our understanding of how myths are made and religious beliefs evolve.

2

When you bounce against that little book of fiction called the bible that he existed against not existed... it does make a big difference. Just saying.

2

The existence of Jesus is not problematic in the way that the supernatural claims about him are. Claiming the existence of a charismatic individual who had some relatively good things to say about humanity is completely consistent with reality (e.g. Martin Luther King, Gandhi, etc.).

I will always concede that he existed in the context of discussion, even if he actually did not. There are obviously many serious problems with Christianity, but focusing the existence of Jesus as a person is not the best approach.

palex Level 6 Aug 18, 2019
2

I agree and have run into these types. There is lots information about this person's existence and it has pretty much been shown to be a foregone conclusion. However, the real issue is about who this person was and what he did and said. During this time most everyone was illiterate (including the said Jesus and his followers) and history was mostly through oral stories. Many years later were some of the stories written down but over the ensuing years they have been translated over and over and the circumstances changed. A common lesson my late partner practiced with her elementary school kids was to get them in a circle and whisper some statement in one child's ear and have them repeat it to the next child all the way around the circle. The end result was never even close to what was said at the onset.

2

Right. His literal existence or non-existence neither validates nor invalidates the metaphorical truth of his teachings.

skado Level 9 Aug 18, 2019
2

Jesus exists, here is the proof.

Genius! Amen!

Nobody fucks with the Jesus

2

Technically, you are correct. The existence of a man named Jesus in no way validates the claims of divinity.

Other than Gabriel Jesus the Man City striker!

1

Then if what you say is true you must force your singular belief in Christ to those who worship Buddha, Mohammed the Prophet, Judaism and every other belief system in the world? Ghandi once said “ I like your Christ very much but your Christians not”

1

Comments ought to be good.😀 As for Jesus, he may have existed and he may not have existed...

1

If you've ever read Richard Carrier or David Fitzgerald's books on the subject, it'll make you wonder how anyone can believe there ever was anything other than a mythical Jesus.

I've listened to Richard Carrier a lot on YouTube. Extremely good credentials, and he is very convincing.

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