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What exactly was the reason for Europeans toaccept a god from the desert over the local gods who made more sense than Jaweh and his band of merry men ? I am pretty sure I knew the answer before, but it makes no sense to me now.

Spinliesel 9 Aug 28
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1

Dogged determination by evangelicals, willing to be martyred for their beliefs?
Maybe the Europeans just got tired of all Christians knocking on their doors, and just said “screw it”?

Do you think we have enough atheists to start knocking doors??
Yea... I didn’t think so either.
We will have to continue using reason then.

@Rodatheist
We just may be approaching that critical mass where knocking on doors would work!
As an introvert though, I’d need to stay home and do it 😉

9

It wasn't just that Constantine made christianity the "official" religion of the Roman empire (he did), but he also sought uniformity of the faith. There were hundreds, if not thousands, of little isolated communities where some version of the abrahamic faith existed - many which had their specific "brand" or version of the faith edified by a writing. Hundreds of local religious leaders were invited, along with their respective books, to the first council at Nicea. It was then and there that the christian orthodoxy was established under arch bishop Athanasius ... who directed that Jesus would be viewed as a god, not a man, and any books that detracted from his divinity (or that of Mary) were immediately banished and their holy men were bound to accept the new direction at threat of death. This left out or significantly changed many belief sets and texts including the very popular Book of Enoch which was later included in the Ethiopian Bible and the Koran. But that's where the origin began for Europe and the orthodox christian beliefs.

Nice one, well-related 😉

Thanks. Where can I find the book of Judith?

@Red_Cat do you know Latin?

@JeffMesser No. I am no classicist 🙂 I am aware it was not included in the Old Testament we know, for a reason unknown to me. Has there been a translation at any time?

@Red_Cat I am not a theologian. As far as I know it's only available in the Vulgate.

@JeffMesser Thanks for responding. I got the gist of it from, I think, from Britanica.com but I'm sure the original tops that.

@Red_Cat that particular religion is not my bailiwick. I enjoy the history behind it all much more.

8

I’m not the first to say it but I’ll reiterate it... it’s all about power. Every Roman Emperor wanted to rule the world. Most could care less about Christianity, they just knew that getting crowned “Holy Roman Emperor” by the sitting Pope was the key to power. Some Emperors even had Popes assassinated so their cronies could become Pope. Charlemagne is a prime example. His mission, because he wanted all the power, was to convert the holdout pagan Germanic Tribes to Christianity because it would bring him favor from the Pope. His plan for conversion was simple, convert or die. He rounded up thousands of pagan men and had them slaughtered in front of entire villages, including children. Christianity wasn’t built on love, it was built on fear. Always has been and always will be. It’s the first thing I remember learning from my catholic upbringing. If you don’t fear God and Jesus you will burn in Hell for eternity.

8

I think often people didn't have a choice but were force into accepting.

7

Bart Ehrman has written an entire book about called The Triumph of Christianity. His thesis boils down to this:

1)Christianity, unlike most Pagan religions, is evangelistic. Christians actively recruit non-Christians. and

  1. Christianity, unlike Paganism, is exclusive. Christians insist that Christians worship their 3-in-1 God, and no other.

The combination of exclusivity and evangelism is powerful. Christians seek converts. If they manage to convert someone, that new convert will attempt to convert all their friends, every member of their family, and strangers as well to worship the Christian go--to the exclusion of any Pagan gods. You can see how this formula, exclusivity + evangelism, could lead to exponential growth.

Most Pagan religions are neither exclusive nor evangelistic. They don't care to convert others to their gods--and if others do convert, they don't have to give up their former gods. They eventually were swamped by the growth of Christianity. This makes sense to me. What do you think?

Yes that is the truth of it, I would only add one small extra of less importance but still worth including. Which is that Christianity in its early stages (not later), was cheap. Most of the pagan religions asked for costly sacrifices, the more expensive the more you progressed, but everyone could afford the christian sacrifice, a crumb of bread and a sip of wine, especially when they were given.

Exclusivity and evangelism, I suppose that is more attractive than the gods that did need neither require worshipping nor new followers.

7

“Follow the money.”

5

The Catholic church did a good job of co opting local religious beliefs in order to somewhat appease those they were converting by coercion. Give up your gods and convert--or die--is a strong incentive to convert.

5

Their choices were convert or die. And after enough nonconformists were slaughtered, resistance became all but untenable.

5

Roman emperor Constantine took on the religion to win a battle, made it a state religion and commissioned churches all over Europe to spread the religion. Because it puts slaves in their place it worked very well for the slave society of the time.

5

Christianity was one of many fringe religions when Rome rules the world.
In 306 Constantine was declared emperor by his troops (in York, England and began a military campaign to take power.
n 312, Constantine fought at the Milvian Bridge on the Tiber River. Accounts state that, following a vision, Constantine ordered a Christian symbol to be painted on his soldiers' shields, was successful in battle and entered Rome.
Constantine, as Western Roman emperor, issued the Edict of Milan in 313, legalizing christianity and allowed for freedom of worship throughout the empire. The Council of Nicaea in 325. Out of this came the Nicene Creed, which affirmed that Jesus was a divine being.
Constantine was baptised, shortly before his death on May 22, 337,
Thus christianity became established as a going concern.

4

Constantine. And Paul. It was politically expedient for Constantine, especially since Paul had made it Roman.

4

It was co-opted by Rome.
To be used to control the masses.

4

If you were a warrior and were killed in battle you’d get to be with Woden in Valhalla, assuming I suppose that you were a follower of Woden. But in general only gods and goddesses were immortal. So Christianity must have had appeal since it offered everlasting life.
By coaxing yourself into belief, supposedly a person can worm his or her way into heaven. That’s because of the crucifixion BTW. Makes total sense, aye?

Also the teachings of Jesus have a certain appeal in a social way. I can see how the leaders might use Christianity as a means of taming our wild and savage ancestors of Northern Europe who were constantly fighting and killing.

I don’t see much sense in those pagan gods and goddesses. You had to offer them sacrifices or they were liable to give you some real crap. Maybe adopting Christianity was a step in the right direction, and now it’s time to move on to more advanced religions that are in accord with science.

Is Woden the same as Wotan?

@Rodatheist Yes it is just a different spelling used by the Scandinavians and the Germans. Though in another way it is quite possible also that he is the same person as Zeus, Jupiter, Osiris, and even some bloke called Jesus, if you believe the mythisists.

It did not perhaps have much practical effect on taming the fighting wild savages, they kept on killing, but it did hold out the hope of reviving the Roman Empire to power hungry political figures, by posing as the spiritual core of that empire.

@Rodatheist Wotan = Odin = Mr. Wednesday in "American Gods by Nil Gaiman. And Odin does in no way equal Osiris, Zeus or Jupiter.

@Fernapple I don’t. Its just that in the movie “Metropolis” there is a mention of a Wotan.

3

Fear. When Constantine became emperor (3rd Century) and decided to adopt and promote christianity, it became the official religion of Rome, ergo the western world. That is the simplified reason.

3

persistence of jehovah's witnesses.

Funny

3

Emperor Constantine made it the religion of his empire.

Yes, but we ( the Frisians) were not part of that empire. But I know there was money involved.

I didn't know anybody escaped. Did you guys maybe do a deal with the Pope?

@brentan Could be, I know the Princess of Jever was supposed to be married to a christian chieftain, she disappeared through tunnels and was never seen again. Better dead than christian. We were also not kindly disposed toward the Irish monks who were sent to convert the heathens. They captured one of them and ate him ( Saint Boniface) Nevertheless, The One God took ever. Oh well. Odin was a much cooler god.

@Spinliesel I also like Odin and his gang of gods and goddesses. In fact one year I went to a Halloween party dressed as Huggin his raven who sat on his shoulder and brought him all thoughts from Midgard. My partner went as Odin - it was very cool. I had that raven costume with the big black wings for years and I wish I had never gotten rid of it.

@Spinliesel I don't think anyone in the past took kindly to being converted, including the Irish, but it seems the chieftains always converted in the end and their tribes with them. Perhaps that's at the root of the change in Frisia, the conversions of the chiefs being more political and economic then religious.

@brentan Yes, Brentan, you hit the nail right on the head. One chieftain gave in and the tribe had to follow.

2

You might be interested in a book called The Darkening Age by Catherine Nixey. It is an interesting account of the coercive processes by which Christianity supplanted earlier beliefs and became the official religion of the Empire. According to her (and I've no reason to doubt her) there was nothing spontaneous about it and no free competition between competing religions.

Senex Level 5 Sep 2, 2019

Thank yopu. It goes on my list.

2

Control and sex. Most pagan religions are sensual. Christianity is more attractive to dickless priests.

zesty Level 7 Aug 30, 2019

True up to a point but a lot of kids would be better off if priests (and pastors and scoutmasters and swimming coaches) really were dickless.

@Senex Control, control. Using myths, money and sex. Sexual deprivation. I'm almost sure that people would be better off if a lot of people were swingers.

@zesty That's probably true too but please don't tell me that I have to swing with a priest 🙂

2

Simple human stupidity.

zesty Level 7 Aug 30, 2019
2

accept?

genocide?

2

Blame it on Pope Leo III, who crowned a Frankish War Chief (Charlemagne), 'Emperor of the West', with the assigned task of forcing European pagans to accept Christianity.

2

Blame Rome.

2

There was convenience on the simplicity of moving from many gods to one god. We have now found convenience on the simplicity of moving from one god to zero.

2

A roman emperor needed mercenaries and the early Christians offer their help under condition of his conversion. 🤷🏽♂️

1

Just as cultures evolve, so do religions. Yahweh is an adaptation of many of the local religions at the time

Yes, and that is one pof my poionts: the jewish religion is maybe an evolved concept for desert dwellers, but not for Norsemen.

1

don't know why the european tribes accepted christianity. i can understand why eastern europeans & others accepted judaism. the jews were usually successful where ever they settled. why not follow a religion in which the ppl seem to be successful & well off?

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