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I just got into a debate with someone about Jesus' crucifixion being God's Will, hypothetically. If we were the ones to go about doing this task, crucifying Jesus, would we oppose it? Or would we joyously crucify him for the good of mankind?

Biblebeltskeptic 6 Oct 2
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0

If god was omnipotent and omniscient it wouldn't be our choice. God could stop us at will, god could make us dit at will, god knows everything that will happen - so how can any part of it be down to us?

you forgot its gods will and gave us free will to do what ever makes sense to you not to me either. Gods plan we must follow and we have no power t ochange were is the free will at?

@benhmiller We are back to the logical impossibility of freewill and an omnipotent god existing at the same time. A square religionhas never circled.

3

Sounds like a BBQ gone wrong.

3

Death is regrettable, but a good career move especially for martyrs.

2

It is often overlooked by Christians that Jesus essentially told Judas to betray him.

John 13:27 World English Bible
After the piece of bread, then Satan entered into him. Then Jesus said to him, "What you do, do quickly."

Huh, good point.

Promoting premature ejaculation?

2

If it were today, hopefully we would get a diagnosis from a psychiatrist and suggest a short spell as an outpatient to discuss a recovery plan.

He may be schizophrenic or bipolar which may require revised intervention depending upon the level of personal or public harm he may be deemed to be capable of inflicting.

He is not violent so this provides a conundrum for the justice system as he is low risk to society, but says things which middle class citizens disagree with or at least makes them feel uncomfortable.

Possibly police protection because politically a martyr would be disastrous. Certainly no crucifixion or death penalty of any kind.

2

There was no Jesus, it is a character of a fictional book, no historic evidence (and the Romans were meticulous in their archives) of such person whatsoever.

1

I can not even begin to answer this question because:

The idea that a there is a god and this god wishes me to kill it (or it's direct offspring demigod ) so it can forgive me for a "sin" it defined and imposed on my supposed great (to a power) grandmother who sinned by seducing a man into eating the forbidden fruit of knowledge from a tree thus angering the all knowing and all forgiving god so it can forgive me and all those who will follow. FACE PALM! This nonsense scenario is beyond rational belief.

1

This is an INSANE QUESTION.... there are zero alleged gawds there was no crucifixion of an alleged baby gawd born of an alleged vaginal virgin in a dirty donkey stable AND ALL THIS INSANITY is the worst invention of humanity....without the Vatican rapist priests would be shot by firing squads and 6 million women would not die each year denied life saving abortions and or deadly disease preventing condoms

It is. And I was being hypothetical. But I was trying to get this person to try to understand that this kind of thinking doesn't make any sense.

1

This is why i always thought Judas was a good guy. it never made sense to me that anyone should hate him or that he would be in hell. i actually believed he went to heaven when i was still christian.

fyi:
[bartdehrman.com]

1

What you're really asking is, "Who cannot see the utter self-contradiction of the whole fable?" And, "Why would god set up this whole charade to play out in the first place?"
But, to humor the question for just for a second, only a relatively few people knew he was god, right?
If the rest HAD known, they never would have crucified him no matter what? THEY would've opposed it? Not necessarily!
So why didn't he snap his fingers and make it obvious? Because he didn't WANT them to know?

If they HAD known, and knew all of mankind, living, dead, or yet to be born, would be "saved," and that "Jesus" WANTED it, they probably would've thought god was a lunatic, but they probably would've shrugged their shoulders and said, "whatever."
One could go on and on about the ridiculousness of the whole thing!

1

Well I suppose that the good soldiers of the Roman army had little choice. Just following orders. And it is doubtful that they were thinking about the "good of mankind" when they nailed Jesus to the cross.
But your question does make me wonder if the whole crucifixion was not a suicide. Or maybe a third of a suicide depending on what you believe about the composition of the Christian "God". Or, since "God" knew he wasn't killing a part of himself, (can "God" die?) it didn't make any difference what the soldiers thought.
Interesting subject. Keep up the good posts.

1

There is no evidence that this figure ever even existed.

Lets start with evidence of proven facts.

SCal Level 7 Oct 3, 2019

A necessary part of reality.

Let's start at the very beginning, a very good place to start...

1

A true religious statement if there ever was one.

Kill for god.

I wonder why this "defense" doesn't work in court as it has been around for so long.

1

Nero and Tiberius were to blame for the rise of Christianity. If they wouldn't have elevated those thrown into the coliseum to be eaten by lions and/or tortured or killed... There would have not been martyrs around to elevate the religion.

Trump is just as crazy as they were and there are still gullible masses... So little has changed in 2,000 years! Technology has improved but people are just as stupid!

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If you had to choose someone to betray you. who better than your best friend

1

Followers had no idea what to do with the death of Jesus until Paul started his lying. Yes, Paul, who never even met the man.

1

The Judas paradox, is Judas really a hero. It was an issue that the early church nearly strangled itself with, for a good laugh it is well worth looking it up. But only if you have a lot of time to spare.

I am not specifically aware of something written about Judas paradox. But I know old testiment says or prophseys Jesus would be sold or betrayed for the silver and some about the silver used to buy a potters field.

So, the only paradox I can think of would be, Jesus told Judas he must fulfill prophesy and betray him. But what if Judas knew prophesy and decided he would be the one to betray? Or, if they would of known prophesy and decided to not fulfill prophesy, would prophesy still of been fulfilled some how?

@blahblah

1

Who is God? Who is "WE"?
My answer to your Q: had jesus was sent by a God to fix the world, the World would have been fixed and i would be praising God instead of been on An Agnostic.com....(lol)

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There is no proof he existed, no proof he was crucified, nor is there any proof of any form of divinity. I can find more proof that Harry the Hog existed than I can that Geeeezzzzuuuuussss existed. So it is like asking if the Tooth Fairy should wear a red dress or a blue dress.

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The whole concept is absurd in the first place. There is no god's will; that is just a chimera.
Jesus was one of many people crucified, but it was not done for any god or gods' will.

1

I would oppose. In what way did the world get better? There are still wars, disease, famine, and natural disasters. Without the crucifixion/resurrection there would have never been a religion called Christianity and that would be a good thing.

0

Would Fandango have to be utilized? Asking for a friend. Haha

0

Imagine how efficient the crucifixion process could have been had the nail-gun been invented!

0

I would oppose it, probably. If "god" set me on fire for a few hours, I imagine I could be persuaded.

Joyously? Never. Every single part of the man/goat-sacrifice story is so deranged and evil words fail me.

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“The contrast between the Mithraic and Christian religions, which were contemporary rivals for the Roman mind, was that in the Christian tradition the savior is the one who is killed, while in the Mithraic, the savior is the one who kills. Actually, the one killed and doing the killing--this is the same power.

This is why the Christian tradition has done a mean job on Judas. He is the midwife of our salvation. The negative and the positive are two aspects of the play in the field of time of the one power. According to the Gospels, at the Last Supper Jesus says, "He to whom I give the sop will betray me." He then dips a piece of bread in the wine and hands it to Judas. Is that not an assignment? Of the twelve, Judas is the one worthy to play the counter role to the sacrifice.”
--Transformations of Myth Through Time, by Joseph Campbell, Chapter 11, p. 224

skado Level 9 Oct 3, 2019
0

I can't understand how stupid they are following blindly. The same in Nazi Germ,any people like sheep going to the slaughter when they out number those with the guns. The invention gods go way back. Look up the fables from Egyptions, and the Chinese they have recorded history well before Christians claimed the earth just poofed out of thin air. The bible was written almost 100 years after Jesus was supposed to have lived but other religions have very similar stories. How do people from camp fires with very little education make up something so many others swear by it with no facts to back them up?

Maybe those people didn't have weapons or military organization?

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