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19 15

I hate change but life is all about change. Let me use an experience of mine to illustrate something and possibly give you a different outlook on things.

I live in a 26 year old 16 wide mobile home and it came time to change all the household water faucets. A few idiots told me I coulds re-build them but wouldn't half of the faucets still be worn out? I changed them every one and now there are no drips, no noises when you turn them, and they all work without using extra pressure. Everything is new. Yippee!

People always talk about heaven and hell so let's imagine that you wake up every morning to find you still have all the old faucets. Nothing has changed. You go through this all again and it is the same the next day. Old faucets again. Now that would be hell. Yes, it would be true hell for sure if you are not allowed to change them.

Now imagine heaven if you can, where you sing the praises of god forever and ever and do this repeatedly for eternity. Damn, wouldn't this also be true hell? It certainly would to me.

True hell is living in a world where there is no change. Life is all about change and without it there is no progress. Score one for the humanist and zero for religion. No sacrifice, no goat, and no zombie.

DenoPenno 9 Nov 6
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19 comments

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4

If you live in India spraying and breathing poison over fields all day ,They would welcome this so called non change .

0

Change is. Done! And, that can't be changed😉.

0

Heaven and Hell , the carrot and the whip .

2

As a child one of the things that Terrified me was the "endless praise" thing... I mean, I loved singing in the choir, but 24/7/365 for Eternity? Aaaaarrrrgggghhhhh!

And a lot of people can't sing for peanuts. It would not be a good sound.

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I agree with you that all of life is about change and I think that humans should enjoy change and be in control of what they want to change in their own lives. i do believe that Heaven and Hell are ideas that people try to manifest in their own lives. I also think that heaven and hell can be introduced to people in various ways through different experiences that teach people their definition of heaven and hell and it helps people learn about their own strengths and weaknesses which to me is a true definition of heaven and hell. My strengths are my heaven and my weaknesses are my personal hell!!

2

To me living for an eternity would be horrible.

In my mind it would be like the Q continuum. Eventually, everything that could be done would be done--and then what? We would run around the universe pestering space travelers just to try to amuse ourselves? No thank you!

In the heaven I was taught to believe in, there is no free-will, no human emotions (except for basking in god's love, I guess). It is simply perfection or something posing as perfection. And worshiping god for eternity, of course. So, would it be similar to being in the Borg collective-- except with no hope to ever reclaim one's humanity? Again, no thank you!

I have no desire for my consciousness to continue on after I die. It is enough for me to know that my atoms and the energy that gave me form will continue on allowing other life to exist.

*Yes, I am evidently a Star Trek fan 🙂

@JesseThompson : I have had many good experiences; and, yes some not so good ones in my life. And, I consider myself to be an overall positive thinking and happy person. The thought of continuing on FOREVER, however, is simply not appealing to me.

It is death, the finality of life, that gives it meaning. Take that away and how could we have "good" experiences or "bad" ones? How could we truly appreciate what we have, or who we have in our lives, if we know we can never lose it, or them?

Yes, to a long and healthy life. No to an eternal life that, to me, would have no meaning.

@JesseThompson : I am not saying I want to die. I am saying I don't want to live forever. And, I am saying -- if life is eternal, how can you appreciate life itself? How could one even call it "life?" Even time would irrelevant if your are looking at eternity. Life simply becomes some sort of existence.

My view on this is not based on any religious baggage or remnants-- it is based in science. If there is no death, how can there be new life? And, if there somehow could be new life, how would it in any way be special? How would a person feel after giving birth to, or fathering, their 100th, or 1000th, child that will live forever?

How could one appreciate their youth if no one gets old? The young already tend to think they are immortal (getting old seems so far away, like it will never happen). This is why there is the saying "youth is wasted on the young." It generally isn't until you get older that you can put things into perspective and appreciate that life is fleeting--and special.

I am perfectly content knowing that when I die my atoms and my energy will continue on allowing other life to exist. Sure, I don't like to think about the world going on without me; but, as I said, I cannot imagine living forever. A few hundred years, sure. But, again--not forever.

And, also, how long can a "good" thing go on? What would even be the standard of "good" or "bad?"

@JesseThompson : Take a moment to really ponder what eternity means. It is a concept we have trouble wrapping our minds around.

What would be the purpose of "improving" ourselves, or our bodies, if we were going to exist forever? What happens once our bodies are as good as they can ever get and we are only a hundred, or even a thousand, years into forever? What would a year, a decade, a millennia, even mean?

If dealing with forever, at some point there would be no new experiences. And new experiences are what adds flavor to our lives. And, as I said, if there is no death, how can life be fully appreciated?

How many times could we ride in a hot air balloon and still get the same thrill?

How many times could we have sex and still enjoy it? Would we even have the desire to have sex? Even though we have sex for enjoyment, and not necessarily for procreation, that is still the driving biological force behind it.

I love chocolate, but I think that I would tire of it after a few hundred years--definitely after a few thousand 🙂.

Cosmically speaking there is no point to life. As far as evolution is "concerned" the point of life is to survive long enough to reproduce. As far as we are concerned, life is what we make of it while we are here; and, it is because it is finite that we can appreciate the time we have.

I don't like the idea of not existing either; but I prefer a world in which I die to a world in which there is never any new life. And, if there is no death--there simply cannot be new life.

1

I don`t know about that old chap.
Q: How many Englishmen does it take to change a light bulb?
A: We quite like the old one actually

0

It doesn't even make for useful conversation.

None of us can imagine what heaven or hell are supposed to be like. Hell is supposed to be painful beyond any pain we know. The faucet thing sounds annoying but I'd take it over burning eternally in a lake of fire, for example.

But since it's all bullshit, who cares?

2

If I were the one singing, it would be hell for anyone within earshot 😉

0
0

Who Moved My Cheese?

1

I have a leaky faucet myself.

1

And, sometimes people who don’t live in the house try to come in & change perfectly good facets to leaking facets. Don’t fix things that aren’t broken. 😂😂😂

0

Just to play devil's advocate. I think that there is an unstated premise in your proposition, that heaven is supposed to be something that one can imagine. Humans live in a material world and anything that they are aware of, changes. In order for human senses to sense something there must be a change. The object sensed must give off sound waves, emit photons or just compress your flesh. In quantum mechanics, you can't measure speed and position at the same time, because by measuring one you change the other. This is because our world exists in time. Heaven on the other hand is infinite and it's god is also, along with being all-knowing and all-powerful. This is beyond human comprehension, so to dismiss the idea that it would be a boring place, is to make a conclusion about something that we can know nothing about. When you are resurrected you will be endowed with a new body and a new understanding and you will be able to take infinite joy in praising god forever. And no, I am not a religious person. I am agnostic like most of the rest of you.

That's why the lady we know is buying a stairway to heaven. Shoot me now. 😁

I talked to a Muslim man a few years ago who couldn't wait to die because as he told me paradise is so grand we as humans can't comprehend how great it will be. It sounds like what you are describing. It seems like whenever we introduce rationality into the discussion the answer is we as humans can't comprehend the answer. Just drink the Koolaid and fall in line. Quit thinking for yourself.

@rogueflyer Are you saying we, as agnostics shouldn't think about what the implications of the existence of an infinite, all-powerful god might be? Sounds a little exclusionary, like some of the religious sects that I am aware of. I've been thinking of such things for some time, because I don't know, I'm an agnostic.

@RMNODDING No, but I think you should think for yourself. But "think" is the keyword. I decided 60 years ago that there might not be a god. Maybe the last 30 or 40 years as an Atheist. Religion requires dogma. Just believe because god works in mysterious ways. It's supernatural, we can't understand. I choose rational thought. I try to live in the natural world. As an Agnostic come up with your own judgment.

2

This might be a contentious answer, but perhaps the religion I was taught as a child is different to yours. As far as I’m aware there’s nothing stopping people in religion growing as people or a community. They are free to improve their thinking, behaviours, health. Also their very practice As a community has changed: from Catholicism to Martin Luther and the Church of England to churches allowing marriage of vicars, female priests and churches that accept all people like Ted Noffs’ church, where my parents got married btw:

[en.m.wikipedia.org]

and the under the bridge church in Brisbane that is also welcoming of everyone, I sung there with my non denominational choir and it was so good to see those unable to practice their religion elsewhere accepted and given a safe space.
Just because people believe in some prophet and follow his words, with varying success, often because they conflict with the rest of their holy book, I don’t see them as unchanging. A lot of good is still done in the name of religion. Not sure if it outweighs the bad though 🙁
All those educational movies about wanting to prove what you already believe work both ways don’t they?
Glad to hear about your tap situation though 😊 sounds much better.

1

I see your point and agree. Our flexibility is an asset. We should always keep it available. And that's why plumbers
get the big bucks.

2

I hate doing plumbing! Heaven would suck. Praising a narcissist for eternity and hoping he doesn't flip out and go in a rage. I wonder if you're stuck there? What if you change your mind and want to try something else? Can you go to hell for two weeks? Kind of like taking two weeks in Florida to warm up and get a tan.

2

"All hope abandon ye who enter here." - Dante had it backwards.
For me, Hell is the abandonment of hope for the future of humanity.

4

Very nicely stated!

Congrats on getting the faucets dealt with.
😉

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