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What are your moral "feelings" :::::Infidelity? Cheating? Cuckolding? . . . . On what basis? The wedding ceremony, which is mostly based upon the christian "honor and obey" stuff?

Or, societal expectations, which came from where?

JacarC 8 Nov 8
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42 comments (26 - 42)

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1

Wow, short questions long answers. 🙂
Here are a few things that are part of my moral code:

1.. Whatever you want to do is fine. It's not my place to judge you, nor yours to judge me.

2.. Myself, personally, I will not agree to be monogamous. If you need that, look elsewhere.

3.. The agreements I do make, I will keep.

4.. Everything is negotiable. Let's talk! What works for you? What works for me? What can we find that works for both of us?

So when we got married, in the Jewish not the Christian ceremony, by mutual agreement we left out some of the usual wordings about fidelity. Yes we both agreed to be true to each other. Not quite the same as "cleave only unto".

ErikK Level 6 Nov 9, 2019
1

Ya don't miss a slice off a cut loaf!

Especially a loaf that is self cleaning and ready for encore.

1

I agree with the others here that you cut a deal with your spouse that you would not cheat. End of discussion.

And it always irks me when I hear someone say “All men cheat”. I have been married 27 years and had opportunities to be unfaithful (used to travel quite a bit conducting business with women). Was propositioned a few times, but I never came close. Not bragging in the least. Just making the point that men do exist who do not cheat.

What deal is cut with explicit respect of sexual behavior? During the ceremony? By law as in some of the red states?

My question is Why do you think what you do about this issue. WHO told you such behavior is wrong? And why do you believe them?

@Jacar I cut a deal when I told my wife I would not cheat on her. I never said anything about a ceremony or any law. Where the hell did you get that idea?

“My question is WHY do you think what you do about this issue?” I don’t understand that question.

“Who told you such behavior is wrong? And why do you believe them?”

I never said anyone told me anything. Where are you getting that I said any of those things?

@Truthseeker1968 I was asking about how you got to your thinking. You stated that you would not cheat. where did that idea come from? If not religious, then societal? Family?

Laws in some states prosecute "infidelity." That's where i got that idea.

@Jacar I couldn’t say where I got the idea. It’s innate I guess. I just know I would be hurt if my wife cheated on me and I know the reverse is true.

@Truthseeker1968 Good. Thanks for that. The theists are constantly pounding us with, "if you don't believe in god what is to stop you from raping and murdering,...?"

My response, "Scientific based exploration is what human existence is based upon. It is an innate learning tool.And all ideas, even all religious ideas, are based in this exploration."

We can say with reasonable certainty, "Most of us are born knowing right from wrong."

@Jacar Agreed.

@Jacar Theists don’t ‘constantly pound’ me with that nonsense.

I must live in a particularly ordinary enclave!

@Jacar I was, have always had a strong reaction to "wrongs" and I believe most people are the same. The Golden Rule is universally acknowledged.

@Jacar The Golden Rule.

1

It came from rights of inheritance and property initially, and it depends on what you agree to first. Also comes from possibility of disease , I don't want a companion I can't trust if your foundation is based on lies

Good. But still vague as to where your feelings came from.

@Jacar had a unfaithful gf was a nightmare and she was treacherous

@bobwjr . . . Personal experiences with evil can really fuck us up. Obviously she did not agree with your sense of trust and commitment. That is part of my exploration of this subject.

How do we convey, and are receptive to, the attitudes of others? We visit AG mostly thinking others here are "without-god." Yet we have many of the concepts in our hearts that are codified in scripture based recommend behaviors. I am interested in what we think is innate and what has been imposed.

Much of what we think about morals are similar, in general, to the judeo-christian structures we are surrounded with. No matter that most "christians" are clueless to their own justifications.

I am asking myself, "What do i feel/think about a particular topic? And whence does those come from.

Reading the responses, i find most are providing explanations of their feeling as the end result of sad experiences. Not, explorations of why they reacted as they did when the feces hit the rotating blades.

1

My "moral feelings" in any relationship would have to be along the lines of what I thought each of us as a couple would want. Morality is not a dictated situation from a set source of info. Morality is different in certain parts of the world so it is a construct of society and not some imaginary god.

Your first sentence is what i am interested in. "THOUGHT" not agreed to by both overtly? So, you could THINK she "cheated" and make decisions about you and her?

@Jacar You can think whatever you like but it does not make things true.

1

I prefer to concentrate on one person and have the same attention when it comes to sexual relationships.
I cheated on someone once, as a teen, and it felt awful, it’s not something I’d want to do again.
I also try to have a break between relationships to reconnect with myself and let the memories of things going sour/ romanticising that maybe we could have worked it out dissipate.
In the only poly relationships I’ve ever known about there’s always someone who feels they would rather be in a mono one. But some people are better at ignoring what their partner truly wants than others, relationships involve compromise. No one is perfect.

On reading other’s comment I guess my ideas weren’t morals, but preferences.

1

I think it is whatever the two of you agree to do. And things change over time, so that agreement has to be updated occasionally.

1

I don't think about "morals" at all. I just follow the golden rule, period.

The golden rule is the most basic moral principle.

1

I am up for anything consensual, and not for anything that hurts woman or she says no to.

1

I don’t consider this a moral issue

1

Let's be honest here, the reason marriage exists as a tradition is for the purpose of child rearing. Humans are a semi monogamous species, meaning we have members who are both monogamous and non monogamous, one of a few species that do this. When we were nomadic hunter gatherer tribes, this wasn't a big deal because the tribe was in charge of raising the young. After we formed societies and the concept of heritage came into existence, monogamy became important because you wouldn't want to give all your wealth after you died to someone who wasn't your offspring.

Raising a child is still expensive, and the desire to proliferate your own genetic information is deeply ingrained in our biology. Having your significant other violate a marriage can be deeply offensive because it effectively denies the other person the right to procreate, even if this only emerges in an unconscious way. Infidelity can destroy relationships which means that the two in the relationship have effectively wasted their time, that is inherently offensive, but not necessarily immoral.

Right now, my working definition of morality is informed consent. If all parties involved know what is going on and agree, the action is moral, so if a couple wants a polyamorous relationship, it's perfectly acceptable.

It takes a village to raise a child.. For most of us in the US the village does not exist.

@Jacar Something that often gets overlooked is that capitalism is a very effective birth control. societies that reach or approach their resource limit and enable women's suffrage level off in terms of population growth, and can even start to reverse this trend and start having decreasing populations.

1

It's a personal choice and standard that you hold yourself to for the benefit of your own self assurance, and maintaining a strong and successful bond with your partner, I just posted a debate topic about polyamory and how I feel about and am waiting to see the defense. But as I feel about it in this moment some people who choose a non committal lifestyle will never feel the intensity of emotion of someone who has had their sights and feelings honed by a life of both discipline and rejection at times, those who flagellate and shack up with whoever pleases them at a given moment will never feel what I feel or connect as strongly as someone with focus and intention to their relationship decisions. That's my take, but I'm also willing to hear the point of a skeezer as well in an effort to understand the hedonistic viewpoint.

A good start.

"Non committal" . . . That is a major foundation of your other words. But there is much below that to be explored. Always ask five levels of why of any idea to get close to the core.

There are some of us who "know" sexual activity should not be restricted, just as it is not with nearly every other activity a human enjoys with other humans: eating, shopping, talking,... . . Why is any of our needs to be considered included with all other parts of life in a ONE-on-ONE relationship, forever amen, yet this one area requires exclusiveness?

Why do you think polyamory is noncommittal? I'm not sure where you got that idea from. Nonmonogamy is not necessarily noncommittal.

0

I've read through the comments and responses, and here are my thoughts. I'll try to cover what you seem to be driving at generally, while expressing my own personal views:

  • I'm uninterested in marriage, and sexual infidelity isn't exclusive to marriage, so I'm going to ignore that part of the question.
  • Sex isn't very important to me. While I enjoy aspects of sex, and I'm eager to please my partner, it's not something I really need the way most people seem to.
  • I don't consider sex itself to be necessarily more intimate than other shared activities.
  • My feelings about sex, though, aren't the only ones to consider. I have a partner and her feelings are important. It doesn't matter where those feelings come from — religion or advertising or legality or whatever — all that matters is that I know how she feels and I've accepted those feelings as valid by entering into a romantic relationship with her.
  • Despite my own adherence to sexual fidelity, I acknowledge that I don't own my partner and that she alone controls her body and behavior. I accept that she has the right to make her own decisions, though if she has sex with someone else — knowing how she feels about it — we may need to have a discussion about what it means for our relationship and our future.
  • What people in any relationship decide is up to them, as long as they're mutually agreeable to whatever terms are set forth. This is the crux of self-determination.
  • My values in this are commitment, trust, and self-determination. I don't want to hurt my partner, so I won't do anything to betray her trust. And I know she doesn't want to hurt me, so if she had sex with someone else I'd know something else was going on and I'd want to explore that with her.
  • Notice that my values here have nothing directly to do with sex. This isn't about sexual morality for me. And I think for many people sex is just the vehicle for deeper aspects of the relationship, but they become entwined and aren't easily distinguished.
  • Nobody has explicitly told me what to think regarding my values. I contemplate ethics a lot and consider what sort of person I want to be and what behavior is consistent with my values. That's not to say I'm perfect and always live up to my convictions, but it's the standard I set for myself and strive to attain.
  • If you still want to know why trust and commitment are important to me in the context of a relationship, or why I think self-determination is so vital in life, I really can't help you — that's just too big an undertaking. I'd simply recommend reading some philosophy on ethical schools of thought, with a bit of focus on stoicism (where I feel I mostly fit), and suggest also looking into some psychology and anthropology regarding interpersonal relationships, to just understand how society has developed and what behavior is conducive to a healthy relationship and what behavior is detrimental to a relationship (romantic or otherwise).
0

So are you referring to moral/ethical codes or just sex?

0

My morality on it is the effect it has on the children. Who comes first?

If there are children you mean?

I'm sure that would help!

0

Do or cause no harm and you should be good to go.

0

Married twice. Both times by justice of the piece (court). No church involved.

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