23 18

I am often told that god is unknowable. Then the theist tells me all about this unknowable god. They just don't seem to understand that if their god is unknowable then they could not possibly tell me anything about their god. With this definition they could not know anything about their god as it is unknowable.
screams in fustration

DavidLaDeau 8 Dec 19

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account


Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.


An undisciplined mind, which cannot fathom logic can accept contradictions like this, and they can hear contradiction after contradiction, and still accept it as OK . . . . that is modus operandi for religion in general . . . . . thinking critically is something that is foreign to them, to much work for them. They are like the dichotomy between men with command of mind and cattle, as described in Sallust's writings:
Beginning of Sallust's Catiline . . . given here in interlinear, Latin, English below it:
DECET omnes homines, qui student sese praestare caeteris animalibus, niti
It becomes all men, who study themselves to excel the other animals, to endeavor with their
summa ope ne transeant vitam silentio reluti pecora, quae natura finxit prona atque
utmost might that they may not pass their life in silence even as cattle, which nature has formed prone and
obedientia ventri. Sed omnie nostra vis est sita animo et corpore. Utimur imperio animi,
obedient to the belly. But all our force is situate in mind and body. We use command of the mind,
magis servitio corporis.
more than the service of the body.


If religious people could grasp the concept of these contradictions their clergy would be working for a living.

JimG Level 8 Dec 19, 2019

Yeah well, all fictional characters are "unknowable".
Unless, of course, you are able to consult with their creators.

Brilliant statement!

@Shawno1972 Thank ya. Thank ya, vurry much.


That which does not exist cannot be known but let me give my take on what I would like my imaginary friend to be like. Hint: His plan has a lot to do with my own personal hates, fears and desires.


I hear ya. God is unknowable and if anything happens at all (good or bad) it is within the perfect plan of this unknowable god. 🙂


In the words of that great philosopher Donald Rumsfeld. Pick it out of that.


When they say unknowable they probably mean unfalsifiable

Well as good as a thought as that is, I doubt that most put that much thought into it.

I have yet to to encounter any theist who has even the remotest understanding of the concept of falsifiability. Karl Popper's "The Logic of Scientific Discovery" seems to be beyond their intellectual capacity. 😟


Such people are not worth your time and certainly not your frustration. Do not expect the irrational to respond rationally, comrade.


You need to ask them how they know god is unknowable.


Theists hold many logically contradicting positions. People in general hold views that are by turns irrational and unsupportable. It's just life. I realize some theists make that worse by judging and gaslighting and assuming terrible things about you and judging you. But stepping back a bit, this is not religious behavior so much as toxic behavior. We avoid toxicity wherever possible, and have clear boundaries where we can't avoid contact with it. We do this whether they are god-botherers or not.

The problem with religion is that it is a catalyst / accelerant for toxicity, more than an actual cause. It encourages immature behavior and thought. It encourages and excuses lack of integrity. That's the real issue. It lets people off the hook for being better people.


Wwww wait. I thought they all had "Personal Relationships" with god?

How true. And each god is unique to each of the faithful. Isn't it so that each believer creates their own version of this unknowable entity? GROG

I grew up with the persoal relationship thing. I don't talk about it much, but as a child adults constantly came up with elaberate stories about how they interacted with god. It made me feel worse as I was not good enough for god. Eventually it led to a sucide attempt at age 14. I made a video about it on YouTube Titled How God almost killed me: a true story.


It's a blanket defense most religions deploy when faced with the inherent illogic and internal inconsistencies that they can't explain away. It's always something like 'God works in mysterious ways'.

The mystery is why he can do anything man can't do, yet doesn't, and can't do anything that man can do. God never fixed a squeaky door in any of his "houses".

@DavidLaDeau Among so many other things.


Welcome to the doublethink of those who refuse to use their (God given) brains!


nice, imo. But see that i can say that i know of Yah, even though i cannot say (even according to Scripture) that i know Him.

an obvious corollary would be that even a scientist would estimate that we are only aware of slightly less than 5% of what we know must exist; recently up from about 4% i guess?

There is alot outthere not to know. Knowledege comes with a price. The more we discover the more that we understand we know almost nothing.

@DavidLaDeau knowledge brings sorrow in Biblespeak, i guess. And note that manna is incidentally called "what is it?"
even we're tired of this manna, give us some meat to eat is commentary on a "believers" impression that their beliefs are absolute truths imo
he who says he knows, does not...

@bbyrd009 Attributed to Soloman. "With much knowledge comes much sorrow"


What do you expect, consistency?


You need new friends.

Will you be my friend?


I guess faith in a unknowable God is like writing a blank cheque in the bank of belief:- welcome to heaven oh faithful one. Please take a seat and watch your loved one tortured for eternity for eating a prawn cocktail.


One of the many contradictions, eh? If you are truly frustrated, that's unfortunate, but take heart. You'll be numb to it soon enough.

I spent a pretty decent chunk of my life in activist mode. Eventually I settled into "bemused spectator" mode. It's better for us to encourage those who show some sign of doubt, rather than attempt to convert those who aren't interested in reason.


Exactly! If we make some comment about this god we are told that we cannot claim to know the reasons why this god does, or does not, do something--yet, they do this all the time.


What they really mean is: He isn't worth knowing. ('cause he doesn't exist)


Probably not worth the trouble trying to explore that route.

What are you told about this unknowable god?

Theres an entire book about this unknowable God and Billions spent every year on others books about that book!

@DavidLaDeau Wow, that’s clever marketing.

“All you need to know about The unknowable”

@Geoffrey51 Lets write that book!


They are right, how can you know something that doesn't exist?


I created Taco God so a person could know themselves and believe in themselves. And put an end once and for all t illogical atheism. This is not to imply that a person must eat a taco to believe in themselves, a person can very well believe in themselves with out eating a taco.

Whereas, the fact tacos exist, people exist and people really eat tacos gives for a real existent God because as I created Taco God as any one and every one that has eaten at least one taco in their life.

Taco God is very much knowable because you know yourself, that is if you have eaten a taco. If you haven't eaten a taco but you know someone that has, then you might could get to know them so that you could know about a taco God.

You are not forced to eat a taco and not forced to go around waving the Taco God label if you have eaten a taco but are not inclined to advertise being a taco God. What taco God does do for people is to free them from being forced to carry the title of illogical atheist. I understand, people like this title for what ever reason and illogical can have entertainment value. So, for entertainment purposes a person can go around with the illogical atheist title and entertain others with illogicalness of the sort, "I lack belief that anyone has ever eaten a taco ". And of course, people can find that funny and entertaining, which there is nothing wrong with good intentioned entertainment even if it is portraying illogicalness.

Illogical atheism can be seen as a part of surrealism a form of entertainment to brighten and entertain others.

a 20th-century avant-garde movement in art and literature which sought to release the creative potential of the unconscious mind, for example by the irrational juxtaposition of images.

Surrealism is a cultural movement that started in 1917,[1][2] and is best known for its visual artworks and writings. Artists painted unnerving, illogical scenes, sometimes with photographic precision, creating strange creatures from everyday objects, and developing painting techniques that allowed the unconscious to express itself.[3] Its aim was, according to Breton, to "resolve the previously contradictory conditions of dream and reality into an absolute reality, a super-reality", or surreality.[4][5][6]wikipedia

Go and be surreal my illogical atheist friends, you are allowed to surreally think freely.

Word Level 8 Dec 19, 2019

Tacos are real and can be proven to exist. Name calling is not the solution. Evidence is. There is no evidence for a god therefore, I do not believe there is a god. There is simply a no more solid or logical position to have. I will not bother to pick apart your argument any further as it has already been proven fallacious.

@DavidLaDeau I do not care to argue. but it is prove correct not fallacious.

Your God May not exist. You think I must abide by your rule that defines the god that you think God must be. God is not my name, I really do exist, I have eaten a taco.

No, a psychiatrist cannot institutionalize me because I claim to be a "God". The god I created is very logical.

@Word I do not have or believe in a god. I simply respond to others definition of a god such as your taco god. I do not believe in your taco god, therefore I am a taco god atheist. It is really that simple.

@Word If you believe that you are a god and it is perceived by said psychiatrist that your delusion may cause you to harm others said psychiatrist is oath bound to institutionalize you. I hope that is not the case. Though the more you continue, the more I am concerned. I would recommend a visit to a qualified mental health provider.

Do you know why biblical text it is called "word of God"?
Because the people who wrote it are the gods. Or "elohim".

Biblical text has achieved world record for being most copied text of its kind.

Biblical text has been peer reviewed for 1000s of years.

It is overwhelmingly acceptable that people are gods.

3 different references that people are Gods. With out disputing truth or fiction of Jesus character, it is written that Jesus style God argued that people are Gods.
Isaiah 41:23 Shew the things that are to come hereafter, that we may know that ye are gods: yea, do good, or do evil, that we may be dismayed, and behold it together.
Psalms 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

Not promoting any doctrine but would consider defending the biblical text and Jewish writtings in general as a work of genius.
Nobel Prizes[note 1] have been awarded to over 900 individuals,[1] of whom at least 20% were Jews, although the Jewish population comprises less than 0.2% of the world's population. Wikipedia
"I will make you into a great nation, and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing. Genesis 12:2
The nation of Israel really exist.

@DavidLaDeau there is not any requirement to "believe in" taco God. But because taco God exist as defined a person that says "Taco god does not exist" is saying exactly the same thing as "no one has ever eaten a taco".

@DavidLaDeau I spent time with a man that was bipolar schitzoeffective. I visited and spent time living on his couch for several months. After visiting with the bipolar schitzoeffective man that had been bipolar schitzoeffective for 20 years come off his medication because he did not need it anymore. In 20 years he had never been off of his meds gir more than 3 days with out going back to mental hospital.

If I help a man get off of bipolar schitzoeffective, why do you think I need to be treated?

@DavidLaDeau nothing delusional about taco God. Eating a taco is just a means of acquiring the title "Taco God". Eating the taco, may only contribute to a relief of hunger for a short while. There is no promise AND no implication of any Willy Wanka God or Harry Potter style God whiz bang.

Nothing delusional.

@DavidLaDeau if I can recap to close but not shoving a taco down anyones throat. Taco God is a label, it is a style of god. I force no one to carry the label. But because the label exist as it was created to exist as a style of god, it cannot be logically said NO GOD EXIST.

Taco God IS not Willy Wonka style God, Taco God is not Harry Potter style God.

To logically show athiesm by defination and premise wrong, only 1 god be required to exist. All the other gods can be totally fictional and not exist, but one God existing is all it takes to show atheism by defination to be wrong.

@Word Please pay close attention. Atheism does not state that NO GOD exist, Your premise is wrong. It simply state that I do not believe there is a God. If you do believe there is a god then present the evidence. Do not put words into my mouth that did not utter. Such behavior is lying and unbecoming.

If one god does exist then you must show that it does in order to prove that unbelief is wrong. You have failed to do so. It appears you are more concerned about being right than admitting the facts.

@DavidLaDeau Tacos both exist and don't exist. You think you have tacos, when you look again there are no tacos. See Schrodinger's Taco for more information.

@Word Helping another does not mean one is sane or not in need of mental health. It appears that you may not be in touch with reality. It concerns me. I know you will reject my concerns but It is my hope that you do seek help.

@DavidLaDeau atheism should be construed as the proposition that God does not exist (or, more broadly, the proposition that there are no gods). []

@OwlInASack I am driving cross country as usual. Plan to be near Boston on the 23rd

@DavidLaDeau I do not care to be argumentative. I do not care for debate. I prefer education and sharing facts and information. If you find a conflict with my information please feel free to point it out. If my information comes across and is not understood or I have typos, please feel free to as for clarification or correction.

"It appears you are more concerned about being right than admitting the facts."

I am concerned about admitting the right facts.

As you point out, you use the word atheism with a different defination that other scholars and intellectuals use as I have already sent a reference.

Forsure, have a common understanding of a word usage and defination can go a long ways in effect communication.

I am very much in touch with reality. I am so much in touch with reality that it really is sickening, almost.

@DavidLaDeau I would have to search for video that explains various forms of opposition to theism. I do not have all of them memorized.

Atheism is the word most commonly used to Express a majority of opposition to theism.

There are those Christian's that are called atheist because they didn't worship the Roman gods, but they had their personal Jesus.

There is non-theist. There is anti-theist.

Non-theist can be like," I will have none of those tacos to eat because I do not want to be a taco God.

So a non-theist can know that taco God exist but is not having anything to eat for themselves.

Anti-theist is just totally opposed to ANY thing God, if I am not mistaken. It's like anti-theist are bashing people just for using O.M.G. because the G stands for the word God.

Anyhow, it is not that I have tried putting words into your mouth, nor have I shoved a taco in. As I say, Taco God is a label that does exist as I created it to be defined. It is well accepted and backed by biblical test that man created God thingies. So, being that I am a man, I am well qualified to create a God thingie that truely exist.

@DavidLaDeau here is some evidence that is not from the biblical text but it shows that people are recognized to be god thingies. Daniel Boone and Kit Carson were real people.

@Word Witings that people beileved in god is not evidence for the existance of god.

@Word Atheism is not opposition to anything. It is an absence of belief in a god.
An anti-theist is one that is against religion, not a god.
As you are a man you can create you own god concept with this I agree.
You have posted too much to respond to in a cohesive way in order to have a conversation that anyone can follow. You have not presented any evidence for a god and have consistantly inposed your wrong beliefs and understansings on me. If you would like to understand more about god and atheism subscribe to my youtube channel. Compelledunbeliever.

@DavidLaDeau You say, "An anti-theist is one that is against religion, not a god."

what does anti-theist have against helping widows and orphans while avoiding worldly corruption, where is that logical?

religion... pure and faultless is this: to help widows and orphans in need and avoiding worldly corruption. James 1:27

@DavidLaDeau you say, "As you are a man you can create you own god concept with this I agree."

But then you say, "You have not presented any evidence for a god..."

I have explained "Taco God" concept to you, have I not?

You say I can create a God, but you are implying that the god I create must be something that cannot be proven, seen, observed, logical or real. You are imposing your wrong beliefs on me in the mannor of wrongfully restricting the God you say I can create.

And, for me to present evidence for the God I created, are you saying that I must meet you in person at a taco bell so we can sit there and wait for a person to eat a taco that way with your own eyes I can point out to you that someone has in fact eaten a taco?

Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:439871
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.