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Wondering if anyone else accepts the Absurd (pursuing meaning in a meaningless world)? Any particular thoughts on it? Been absurdist almost since becoming atheist and have had what you might call struggles and triumphs within it. I'm curious about the general experiences of others.

stulosophy 4 Feb 3
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0

I don't think it IS a "meaningless world."
It may be. It certainly seems that way at times.
But I prefer 'natural law' and 'karma'-based justice.
This prompts one to act morally even if (some) others act immorally, as if there are no consequences.
I think we reap as we sow, are rewarded and punished in THIS life, and ones to come.
Is this true? I don't know.
There's plenty of evidence to indicate it is, but everybody's free to think what they want.
If they DO actually believe life is "absurd," though, they'll be, like you, unhappy and pessimistic. Their choice.
I personally see life as kind of a race between good and bad, optimism and pessimism, with ultimately a good outcome.

@maturin1919 Yes, that the attempt to find meaning in a meaningless world is absurd.
I agree if it IS a meaningless world, it WOULD be absurd to think of finding meaning in one's own life, or in anything at all.
It COULD BE very liberating to feel free of having to find that meaning. On the other hand, it'd be--to me anyway--not only absurd but also nonsensical.
I personally don't look for meaning. I just feel there IS meaning.
I don't think a 'god' bestows it, but an afterlife and personal 'spiritual' growth would certainly have to be a part of it.
Part of it also is a feeling there is natural law, and ultimate justice.
Animals don't do bad things, commit criminal acts; there's no court for kangaroos where they are judged and punished. It's only men who do these things, and for them only 'justice' is necessary, and meted out.
I can't prove it, and I may be wrong.
So, without a sense there is a spiritual side to us, life WOULDN'T have any meaning. We're born, we live, we die. What possible meaning could there possibly be?
I'm not saying there IS meaning, just a world without it in ITSELF seems absurd, makes no sense, and I simply don't think that's the case.
That and about $1.79 will get you a cup of coffee.

@maturin1919 Birds 'steal' nests? Chimpanzees 'war' with one another? What about lions 'murdering' gazelles?
As far as 'heat death' is concerned, there IS a theory at some 'tipping point,' gravity takes back over and the universe snaps back to a concentrated mass which explodes again, the process repeating itself an infinite number of times.
Another theory has it there are an infinite number of universes and dimensions; if true, there are no boundaries and there was no beginning and will be no end to it all
So what?
You're implying if there's a goal, it too is meaningless because it itself, once realized, will come to nothing in the end.
Well, that'd depend on the goal, wouldn't it?
What do I think the goal might be? I don't know, interdimensional or trans-universal travel maybe, putting us in contact with other ultra-sophisticated life forms, leading perhaps to immortality? In the meantime we just keep coming back over and over, like Groundhog Day, until we get it right? How's that for something right off the top of my head?
Lots of things occur to me.
You may say, 'Well, you're just making stuff up to give meaning in your own head to meaninglessness.'
Maybe, but if that IS what I'm doing it sure beats sitting around dwelling on inevitable oblivion. And it might just be true.
After all, YOUR idea of 'truth' is just one of a countless number of possibilities...why pick the most depressing one to fixate on? What fun is that?
To me, it's not even the most likely one. Evolution is an ongoing thing and thoughts also evolve. I won't let MY thoughts get stuck in, say, the Inquisition days, or in the long lost dreams of the Third Reich, or even today's depressing headlines.
History is written by the military, and war is fascinating.
Good things are boring, so you never hear of them. A World Government would be boring. So would be a world without conflict of any kind.
Wouldn't it be 'meaningful' to find out what such a world would be like?
Or am I being absurd?

12

I think "meaning" is wholly subjective.
A lot of what other people believe is "meaningful" is often straight-up bullshit
to me.

I can certainly agree with KK on this one. 🙂

But are you an absurdist with thoughts about the Absurd?

@stulosophy Not really. I don't have a lot of use for philosophy.
I think most of what others think of as "important" is often pretty
damned absurd.
I also don't put too many labels on myself.
So, no, I'm not an "absurdist".

9

I think absurdism is a first world, wealthy, educated-class, introspection which can lead to nihilism, mental illness and suicide. In the third world most people are too concerned with just surviving on a day to day basis to have the luxury of wondering much about the meaning and purpose of their lives. In any case their religion will have taken care of that question for them already. Religion is the obvious antidote to absurdism, as that provides all the answers to the question of the meaning of life, namely that here on Earth we are merely in an anteroom for the hereafter and sitting an entrance test for entry to heaven. Remove that belief and that is when all this navel-gazing begins about the purpose of life, which I can see is when you began to have this mindset. I have never had a religion although I have read the tenets of most religions, as well as the works of many philosophers, and the conclusion I have come to is that although we have no definitive answers to how or why we exist, we really can have a purposeful life by giving it any meaning we wish. In other words I feel that I am in charge of my own destiny and in this short life span of mine I can decide to make a difference to the life of my fellow humans by interaction and empathy, and to my natural habitat, flora and fauna, by nurturing and protecting it for future generations. If there is a bigger purpose to human life it has managed to escape my consciousness so far, but it had better hurry up and reveal itself because I’m now approaching the age of 75, so time is getting shorter.

Great thoughts! I actually started well before I became atheist. Probably when I was 10 or so. So it was absolutely inevitable once I gave up any ideas or hopes for immortality.

8

I'm not quite sure what is being defined as "absurd" here.

Are we talking dancing on the table with a lampshade on the head or walking down the street with a gigantic stuffed fish playing it like a guitar (both of which I have seen)?

Or are we talking about the cognitive dissonance that seems to plague even the best of us, when the facts don't jibe with our views?

Is there even a difference?

Wait.. what am I doing here, why am I doing it and how can it possibly help??

::: goes off to find some tuna :::

Well you got pretty close with the last line before you went looking for tuna in order to find meaning. 😄😉

Oh, and just so we are completely clear about the fish guitar thing...

...I truly appreciate an honest-to-goodness eccentric. I <3 New York City

@LatentumCattus Newcomers to NYC are funny, they react to someone walking down the street playing an enourmous fish.

@Davesnothere - oh, I am thoroughly charmed by eccentrics. Not charmed enough to approach closer than thirty feet, mind you, but air strumming a sockeye salmon put a smile on my face that day - and remained in mind as I could readily find the pic I snapped.

Just made me think of a song:
And you may ask yourself
How do I work this?
And you may ask yourself
Where is that large automobile?
And you may tell yourself
This is not my beautiful house!
And you may tell yourself
This is not my beautiful wife!

personally I think it is a fluke.....sorry I could not help it, just call it fromaggio

@PadraicM letting the days go by . . .

7

"Intelligent people see the absurdity of life," my friend Ken said when we were 20. "This gives them a dark side."

I think he was talking about himself. A heavy pot smoker, Ken tended to be depressed.

I see the wonder, joy and absurdity of life. It makes me laugh.

Honestly, nihilism brings me comfort. It was hard at first, but I learned to make friends with it. 😊

@Fred_Snerd

You couldn't be more wrong.

What is Optimism? What Are the Benefits of Optimism?

"I’m a cognitive-behavioral therapist, which means I believe if you change your thinking, you can change your life. Over more than twenty-five years, I’ve seen the benefits for thousands of individuals. One way you can think differently and improve your life is by teaching yourself to become more optimistic.

"Optimism is a confidence that future events will turn out well. It is a hopefulness that good things are ahead. It’s not just wishful thinking. True optimism is rooted in reality and honesty but looks at the future through a positive lens.

The benefits of optimism are enormous. In a review of the literature, Elizabeth Scott found that optimism can lead to:

  1. Better physical health
  2. Better emotional health
  3. Greater persistence on important goals and tasks
  4. Less stress

*There’s no question there are both long-term and short-term benefits to being more optimistic. Optimistic people often have much better futures because they envision and expect better futures for themselves.**

[psychbytes.com]

@Fred_Snerd @Fred_Snerd

Ken also said highly intelligent people see the futility of much of what we do. A lifelong optimist, I disagree.

Since 2006, I have been a volunteer college mentor at the high school. I help low income, first generation students write essays for college and scholarship applications. These students are the first person in their family to graduate from high school and go to college.

One of my best success stories is Brenda, who won $259,544 in scholarships in 2016. A junior in Wesleyan University, CT, Brenda plans to become a medical doctor and pathologist. She wants to cure diseases.

Volunteering, hiking and being a mother give tremendous meaning to my life. I feel happy and grounded high in the mountains.

Life is what you make of it.

Photos:

  1. I won the first Scholarship Rockstar Award! 2018!

  2. In 2018, I took three young women I previously mentored on a day hike. From left: Tammy, a Vietnamese immigrant, is studying the be a neurosurgeon at Univ. of WA; me; Brenda, daughter of Mexican immigrants is becoming a pediatrician; and Teresa is an accountant and community leader.

  3. Another award. 2019.

  4. Beautiful Spider Meadows, WA, 2012.

7

I accept that I can only control my actions, and not 100% of the time either.

6

It is a meaningless world only to those wearing blindfolds.

6

The only thing that’s absurd is thinking of human experience as meaningless. Human experience is built out of nothing but meaning. If I find food today it means I will live to hunt for food tomorrow. If I build a better mousetrap it means my customers will keep me in a new car. If I forget where meaning comes from, it may simply be I have such an abundance of it I am no longer able to recognize it.

skado Level 9 Feb 3, 2020

But meaning is something you discover for yourself, not something that's inherent, right? To me absurdism is simply the recognition that meaning is entirely subjective.

@stulosophy
What's absurd about that? How could it be otherwise?

5

The world has been running just fine until we humans entered the picture. Now, all of a sudden things have become absurd. I see a connection.

I do lean a bit anti-natalist at times. 😄

I agree. If there a god, he should have stopped right before creating Adam and Eve

4

In terms of utility, music will be quite absurd. However, it has a great impact in most people. If we start analysing many things in our lives, we actually do loads of things that are absurd. Like using money to buy things. It's us who give meaning and utility to those absurd things/actions.

4

Trump .

3

Here’s my take:

Life - the combined effort of all of the molecules that constitute the body of a being - is an entropy machine. A life seeks out sources of energy, consumes the source of energy and metabolizes it’s components, in order to seek out more sources of energy. The purpose of life is revealed in this fundamental action: to increase entropy.
As an individual of sentient consciousness, we have the ability to interpret this purpose into “meaning” and give us both navigational as well as philosophically substantive direction. That is to say, we get to choose how we increase the entropy of our environment. The experience of being alive is the most beautiful part of consciousness and the awareness of our own consciousness allows us to change directions and ultimately enrich the experience of existence.
Simultaneously, we are genetically programmed with the biological imperative to continue (to go on living in order to accelerate the entropy of the universe). This is as fundamental as the fusion and fission of atoms inside the stars of our universe, energy is released into the environment for other bodies to consume/metabolize/transmit. We eat, our digestive process takes the components of the food whose energy we can metabolize, and we pass on that which we cannot extract. This is a fractal and universal process. We are as much a part of our environment as the plants and animals we eat and the bacteria that consume and metabolize our remains. The whole of life is the acceleration of entropy.
We are unique, as far as we know, in our ability to consciously determine HOW we complete our purpose. In a universe that is indifferent, it is our own personal responsibility to extract meaning from our purpose... because, as a greater mind than my own has said, the universe is under no obligation to make sense to anyone.
So death is not the culmination of the experience of life, it is the ultimate destination of the journey of our lives. It is, in fact, the journey that is the apex of our adventure in reality...that is to say that the meaning of life is to live, to learn, to laugh, to love, and to leave; it’s all that stuff that happens in between the beginning and the end. It is what you make it. Life is lived in the details.

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This would be more or less the Alan Watts way of looking at it. Totally sufficient.

3

I make meaning in life. I can affect those around me and generations to come. In 50 thousand years I know it will not matter. Then it will not matter to me either, but I live here and now.

3

Wish it or not, humans are distinguished from all other known species by our penchant for 'making sense' of our surroundings. It is the way our brains 'work'. We can't help it. It isn't possible for a person with a healthy mind to not try making 'sense' of what is perceived. It's as automatic as looking at a word on a page or a sign and refusing to read it. Likewise, we read everything in our environment, albeit filtered, trying to make sense of it.

Being successful at the process translates into other kinds of successes; not the least of which is achieving a fulfilled, healthy existence in this life. There are, however, different classifications of what 'makes sense'. Most important is primary, personal sense development, for which we are superbly equipped by Nature. A healthy newborn has in-born,self-regulating senses of morality and sexuality that can be easily adapted as they develop into a life affirmative, cohesive, accepting and loving cultural environment. One that is comprised of parents, siblings, extended family and community of people bonded by love, sharing knowledge, affection and work. Such a community is the seat of secondary 'group sense', also largely in-born and shared in forms of group affection, cooperation and identity.

That, unfortunately, is a 'Paradise' lost long ago. Tiny living sherds still cling to existence in remote areas of the planet, but for the most part it can be said to have vanished; save in archaeological and ancient historical records.

We, as in our 'kind' are afflicted with 'civilization'. Our state of existence is incompatible with our inborn nature and therefore, in many ways, is pathogenic. Those social and theological institutions claiming roles of protection and salvation from the evils of our fellows are the very causes of them in the first place. They manufacture their own market, while humanity gets sicker with each successive generation.

If such a state of mind as 'absurdist' actually existed (as I understand it), they wouldn't be following this at all; nor would they be 'trying-on' any of the ideas in their fertile imaginations, trying to make sense. If that is what you've been doing, then I don't think (something we all do so well) you'd likely meet the standard.

It is our sick world, the 'brine' is what I call it, that causes us to seek out alternative identities from those imposed upon us by parents, family, society and especially theology. They are afflicted and in turn infect their progeny with a shared and serious discomfort. We're coerced into betraying our very natures; of abdicating our precious human birthright of reasoning and individual thinking to a 'higher or wiser' power. In return we're issued an identity, like a mental and emotional straight-jacket. Sometimes it gets so sordid that people will sigh and give-up; taking on attitudes toward life itself such as 'NONE OF THIS CRAP HAS ANY MEANING OR MAKES ANY SENSE'!

Reaching that status alone is evidence that whether we like it or not, even 'giving up' is a dysfunctional way of making sense.

Cripes! That was a depressing read!

Has anyone got the half full cup?

@Fred_Snerd If it were cheaper and easier to grow food inside buildings rather than in the ground that’s how it would be grown currently. I’m all for efficiency and community, and I really like your last sentence, but I don’t expect any great revolutionary changes that will overturn the basic laws of economics.

@Fred_Snerd It’s not really a line of attack, just a call to look at a few facts. Take peanuts as one example of many crops unsuitable for being grown indoors. Peanuts are very nutritious and valuable, and there is absolutely no reason for trying to grow them inside. Sixty acres of peanuts on my little farm might produce well over a hundred tons. Can you imagine the cost of building a sixty acre greenhouse? Besides that you are not going to get a better yield with hydroponics. Peanuts thrive in sandy loam and require a long growing season, ruling out northern places unless you use artificial light and heating.

3

Never heard of the term absurdist before, but think it’s human nature to look for patterns and meaning: these links can keep us alive.

2

The universe does not care. It just is. In the grand scope of eternity no one's life really matters.

But we humans do not live in a cosmic scale but in a human one. To us, things do matter.

2

Not sure one can “pursue” meaning in a meaningless world. That would be a fool’s errand, no? One can, however, create meaning through what one does and how one does it, I think. So, I agree the universe is meaningless, but strive to make some of my actions provisionally meaningful.

2

The mistake is to assume the world is meaningless in the first place. The absence of a deity does not make the universe purposeless. 'Purpose' is a linguistic and semantic label that you give it. You are a subjective personality that assigns meaning. And different people assign to 'purpose' a religions or non-religious meaning accordingly. Agnostics might designate important meanings in their life because they live a subjective existence, even if it is in an indifferent universe.

Yes, the notion that purpose and purposelessness overlap is absurd. But, what is absurd? 'Absurd' may be thought of as paradox, something intrinsically conflicted or illogical. That's where physics comes in. Physics provides any number of instances of perceptual impossibility - - intrinsic conflicts that cannot be resolved in the realm of human perception. And yet, these phenomena are there and are studied. There's wave-particle duality, gravity-waves, Higgs Field vs Higgs Boson, etc.. Ultimately, the paradoxes are appreciated as juicy and experientially optimal (ie mind-blowing). Absurdity is just another paradox to be enjoyed.

2

My wife has taught me a lot about embracing the absurd (and laughing at it). It can be a good way of letting go of particular outcomes / expectations and reminding yourself that life or the universe or the gods don't owe you anything whatsoever.

The irony is that if you aren't looking for some grandiose overarching meaning or validation, you can better appreciate more modest goals. Sometimes I joke that at my age, I get a sense of accomplishment from just managing to take a good dump.

You can better appreciate the little things if you're not always fretting about things outside your control like how your children don't appreciate you enough, you never found that elusive love for the ages, or you can't afford to tick every item on your privileged bucket list.

2

Well I guess we have to accept Trump. That’s absurd to my mind . And his support and the cult like following he has. The way he turns everything on its head, from turfing real news for fake, genuine professionals for cronies, our stable branches of law for ?, dictators for long standing allies, bull shit for facts. The more I think of it, politics is absurd.

2

Back to basics. Science has shown that the main purpose of life is the replication and propagation of genetic code. This inevitably leads to loyalty to and love for one's family (tribalism). The challenge is to realize this, and to act in a rational manner within that context.

2

Life is like a beanstalk, Isn't it?

2

"Wondering if anyone else accepts the Absurd (pursuing meaning in a meaningless world)? Any particular thoughts on it?"

You utilize the term "The Absurd", as if it is a thing, like a rock.
I find that confusing.

I am therefore guessing that you are referring to the lack of some overarching meaning applied to "life, the Universe, and Everything", a commonality in religion. Thus in a religious worldview everything has a meaning, the practitioner simply accepts there own inability to grasp the meaning in awful things, whereas meaning is easy to see in good things.

I do not agree that the world we live in lacks meaning, rather I think it is, and always has been, we humans who bring meaning to our lives. It has always been true that we humans muck hack our homes out of the wilderness we find ourselves in, be that one of wilderness or concrete. In so doing we create the meanings of our own lives.

For many fear of the unknown makes a religious explanation far more emotionally palatable. I rather embrace the unknown, I accept we are ignorant bits of protoplasm that somehow became self aware. To many of the religious mind, that blow to the ego is intolerable and terrifying.

I do not see the lack of some overarching meaning as a lack, but a driving force to push humans out to learn more, as much as we can.

"I am a tiny, insignificant, ignorant bit of carbon.  I have one life and it is short and unimportant, but thanks to recent scientific advances I get to live twice as long as my great, great, great, great, uncleses, and auntses.  Twice as long to live this life of mine!  Twice as long to love this wife of mine. Twice as many years of friends and wine, of sharing curries and getting shitty at good looking hippies with fairies on their spines and butterflies on their titties."--Tim Minchin

2

I see the world as absurd at times, but not meaningless. The meaning of life is a hotly debated topic, but I foster relationships with others and try to do things to make my (and other peoples) lives materially better. Sometimes thats a kind word, and sometimes that's volunteering to help others.

I would look to your values & mission to find your meaning.

Example -
To help all humans understand themselves on the deepest and broadest level. Be an agent for positive change. Have fun along the journey.

#Humanist

2

Do you mean in the context of Ionesco, Pinter and Beckett?

Yes, I think? Don't know much about those peoples' writings, but a cursory overview seems like that's about right.

1

My impression is that there is a striving for order and balance in the universe, and when there is a hit to that balance, upsetting the beautiful dance of perpetual expansion, natural consequences step in to restore the balance.

It's this way of thinking that helps me make sense of events in my own life and keeps my eye on the big picture, rather than focusing on the little hits my life takes from time to time.

@ToolGuy I admit to ignorance about the science of the universe, and so I just think about it in philosophical terms as a way for me to understand my life better.

It seems to me that after the chaos of the big bang, all the matter went flying and fell into a pattern, a balance between the push and pull of opposite forces, the vacuum of space and the matter filling it up, with the matter clinging together, spinning in a predictable fashion.

That's my impression of the creation of the universe, and my feeling that what may have started out as haphazard, has worked into a delicate balance that supports our life here on earth. I'm not a scientist, I'm just sharing my layman's understanding of the universe, and my way of transferring the big picture in my mind, to my daily life.

@ToolGuy I started that book last year, but never finished it. Guess I will give it another try. Thanks.

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