10 11

How many know that the Hindu festivals season will kick off in India, Nepal etc.

Right now the festival of Holi (Festival of Colors) has kicked off amid Coronavirus scare.

It will be followed by festival of Navaratri (Nine Nights) where Indian goddesses will be worshiped across the country of 1.3 billion people.

Ironically, it is the land that has been notoriously known for:

  1. The most dangerous country for women (above Somalia, Afghanistan and Congo)
  2. There is a rape every 2 minutes in India
  3. The worst place for mothers after Zimbaabwe, Iraq and Bangladesh
  4. The land with most slavery of women and children
  5. 49% residents do not have toilets at home in this daya nd age

Do we have any Westerner here to romanticize Hinduism and tell me how good it is?

St-Sinner 9 Mar 10

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Overly populated.

You missed the point.

@St-Sinner You are right.


My hinduism knowledge is old, out of date and unused to the point of rust.
THUS, I am aware in a very general way of the spring festival season starting
Now I am concerned thast you are taslking about that extra specail 12? year cyclic festival of billions? The one which gathers every yogi and his followers for months?

Am I right about that? Is that the fest you mean?

I sure hope not . . .

Are you talking about Kumbh Mela?

@St-Sinner ye, thanks for the reminder of term.

@Davesnothere What exactly is "spiritual energy)? I guess some kind of emotion.


taking the bullet points
1&3 'most dangerous' and 'worst' are a little too subjective to quantify
2 rapes/minute equates pro rata population to 12 rapes/minute across the world ... I have no idea of the true worldwide figure, but would guess India is not that far ahead of many other countries ... maybe lower than some war zones.
4. depends on how you define slavery ... but I think the islamic 'state' may be a serious contender for this title
5. there are many people in India who would like a home ... with drinkable water ... and an indoor toilet is beyond imagination for many there.

I worked in India for 5 years ... the country has extremes of wealth and poverty, largely tied to a caste system enshrined in Hinduism ... briefly, it says your situation in this life is determined by your actions in your previous lives ... but if you are 'good' your next life will be 'better'

You are trying to inflict your western ideals and values onto a culture where they simply do not apply, though western TV programmes are rapidly ensuring that all Indians are enveloped in a consumerist culture ... son they will all want indoor plumbing and will, eventually, get it.

Look back to social history of Victorian England which was comparable in many ways to todays India (and many other places around the world.

I remember back in around 1965 when my parents proudly installed a bathroom in our house .. up till then it was a trip across the yard to the toilet and a tin bath in front of the fire to bathe (or the council run baths for many)

It will be a long time before many countries get to where western cultures are now and I am not sure they will like it when they get there ... slum kids dressed in rags playing in the streets are the happiest I have met around the world ... certainly happier than the neurotic keypad obsessed 'young adults' around my little English town


Your reference to internal plumbing is even more jarring when you consider that a much greater percentage of homes were without it in 1974 when India successfully tested its first nuclear bomb, named Smiling Buddha.

Interesting. Thank you for the information.

“Smiling Buddha:” Seriously? Never heard that. Of course, what you point out is horrific, but that nickname is pure Orwellian sarcastic genius ...

@The-Krzyz Orwellian sarcasm ... a new term to add to my toolbox ... thanks!


my understanding is that Hinduism was once much purer, effectively one God and everything, and then kind of deteriorated, as Christianity and i guess most religions do? I also heard that Hinduism was undergoing some kind of purifying, tearing down old temples that are not extant for the Supreme Diety in Hindu? Not sure which sect though. Has the treatment of women there historically been so bad? Always? ty, and my devout sympathies

Yes, the treatment of women in India has been bad not just historically, say in the last 1,000 years but the scriptures we claim are 8,000 years old tell us in great details as to how we should treat women.

Here is some information on the tradition of horrific SATI. This was banned immediately after the first central Asian invader Babur saw in the 1400s and the next time was when the British did in the 1700s.

This is what Sati was:

  1. Sati Means the Widow Must Burn Alive with the Dead Husband
    A Hindu widow must go to the pyre to burn alive with the dead husband in order to bring him back from heaven. This is based on the Hindu mythology where a devout Hindu woman Sati Savitri went to the heaven after husband's death and pleaded for his life with Lord Yama (the God of Death) and refused to go back to Earth without the husband. The Lord was pleased with he dedication and love that he let the husband return to the Earth with Sati Savitri. Celebrating the mythical legend of Sati Savitri by worshiping around large oak trees by married women is still a tradition across India.
  2. Hindus Continued the Tradition for Thousands of Years
    Although the Hindus (kings and priests) never banned this tradition for thousands of years, the first Indian government banned it in its first penal code in 1947. Recent Sati incidents were reported in states of Rajasthan, Bihar and Chhattisgarh between 1970 and 1988. Look up in Google.
  3. Men Married Multiple and Young Girls
    In the old days, old men kept marrying young women with the belief that a young wife and new children would keep their desire to stay alive on and therefore, the men would live longer. Old meant under 40 in those days.
  4. Widows were as Young as 5
    Often girls were married as early as 5 years old (my own mother-in-law was married at 11 in 1940)
  5. Girls' Limbs Were Broken to Stop Running Away
    When young wives of 7 to 11 years old were forced to sit on the dead husbands' pyres, they were frightened and began to cry. Some ran away when the fire was lit. So the Hindu men caught, brought them back and broke their limbs so they could not run any more. Often they were tied to the wooden blocks of the pyres. Sometimes (benevolent) Hindus gave the girls heavy opium so they could be numb while burning alive. Hindus also developed the tradition of beating drums loud during Sati so the families and children would not hear girls' heart wrenching screams.
  6. All Incidents were Documented in History
    All descriptions above were documented by the British officers since 1700s and other travelers before that. Search on Google. You will find books.
  7. Hindus Never Forced Women to Burn Alive?
    Hindus still claim today that the Hindu society never forced the women to burn alive. It was their own choice to kill themselves due to the fear of rape and slavery by the invaders. However, it has never been explained why Hindus could not fight the invaders and give their lives before the women could be caught or why Hindu men beat drums around Sati instead of fighting the enemy?
  8. Bad Treatment of Women Continues Today
    Even today, Hindu outfits in India (like Shiv Sena, Rame Sene, Hindu Vishwa Parishad) are harassing and beating up Indian women who go to bars or seen with men, boys who are not their brothers or husbands.
  9. I have Visited Sati Shrines
    I have personally been to shrines of women who went to Sati in 1800s in and near my hometown where visitors celebrate their shrines. The ring of glamor around the horror has not gone away.

The horrific treatment of women in India cannot be experienced enough by an outsider even by living in India for 5 years. You have to live in a Hindu family as a Hindu, notice the rules and expectations to be bothered by the minute and day to experience how bad it is.

But Hindu Women Don't Complain Today, Do They?
Now you may ask, how Hindu women don't complain and why they seem to look happy? The answer is yes, things have improved since the ancient days and Sati is not done these days. But it is important to know that the dreams, aspirations of women are built and shaped largely by the Indian Hindu culture and upbringing even today. Most novels I read while growing up were full of how a good Hindu women behaved and sacrificed herself for the husband. How romance novels, Bollywood movies paint a woman's role in the society. A submissive, obedient role of a Hindu woman who would have an arranged marriage and go to into a joint family is glorified and glamorized continuously. Movies, novels with a Hindu woman rebelling against traditions would not sell.

A movie [] about two lesbians made by a renowned producer director Deepa mehta was banned in 1996.

The movie - The Girl with a Dragon Tattoo has been banned since 2011.


Here's something not directly related. I heard it from Tom Holland in a YT video. He says there has been for some time now a move to get away from the 'Christianisation' of other religions. This idea is about treating beliefs as universal rather than local, and principled rather than organic. This Christianisation, he says, was a feature of colonialism. He says the recent developments in India, where Modi is pushing for a nation of Hindus only, is an expression of this move back to local gods, local identity, local religion..

I agree with the localization thought but he is giving too much credit to Modi who I think is the worst thing that ever happened to India since the British left in 1947.

Holland isn't praising Modi, just trying to understand what's going on.

I can tell. Modi has no love for the spirit of Hinduism which preaches brotherhood and tolerance. He has done exactly the opposite in the country by killing Muslims randomly, interpreting Hinduism terribly and using religion to keep power. What is worse is that he is a not symbol of everything that good things of Hinsusim preach even in personal life. Most of my best teachers since high school, my best neighbors and best friends were Muslim. It pains me terribly.

He abandoned his wife and made up lies several times, he proclaimed to have college degrees that proved to be fake, never did many things he claimed he did and is very narcissist that would put Trump to shame.


When we were young and spent all our money on alcohol the Hari Krishnas gave us a free meal once a week, even with pudding, (which is luxury, as far as I’m concerned). Sure we sang for our supper, but it was a good pay off and didn’t involve any of the risks associated with travelling to India, we didn’t have to leave our home city 🙂
But, we’re all grown up and paying for our own dinners now 😉 well apart from Andy 😟 he died.

You are at no fault, I am telling you. I would sing for free food also, even today.

@St-Sinner thank you 😊

I ate free food at Hare Rama temples in Mumbai, New Jersey and Philadelphia and still eat at Barsana Dham in Texas. I have no shame or gratitude. I start criticizing them as soon as I leave the places. It is my payback for the torture that religion did to me since childhood. I am so proud my name suits me so good.

@St-Sinner I felt no duplicity, we were hungry. Once a Krishna asked me if I believed if God was in everyone. I, quite honestly, replied no. Apparently they thought that this was a progressive problem. I didn’t have to point out that I didn’t believe in God/s or disbelieve for that matter 🙂 I too have fed the hungry and sheltered people at times, it’s part of life. (I’ve never raped, enslaved or done many other unpleasant things though, not much of a sinner, saint 😉).

Lol.. You are worse than me. 🙂 Too bad you are too far away.


Nope, not me. I don't even celebrate American holidays, unless it's a day off with pay.


Bloody crazy worship mental crap. Why and for whose benefit? NO-ONE'S BENEFIT, JUST UTTER MADNESS

Just like Christmas and Easter.


I wouldn't know. I don't celebrate Indian holidays. I celebrate the thought and philsophy of SE Asia from 6,000 years ago in the Upanishads. The next time you want to bait me regarding holidays then you'd be better off trying March madness or the NBA playoffs. pathetic.

No you don't celebrate the thought and you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. 🙂

@St-Sinner and what is it that I know?

Nothingness and if all anything, it must be half baked.

Any thought or a scripture of religion, faith or a recommended way of life cannot be read just from books. Religion gave a code of conduct which these philosophies and written texts were for. If you do not view how it is used, interpreted, not by one one, two, hundred or a million but a Billion Plus people, you will see that the all thoughts have only produced miseries. One can make a mistake, 100 can but not millions and a billion for hundreds of years. Hinduism has been dismissed as an outdated thought and I have lived in Hinduism as a practicing Brahmin for 20 years. I don't know if you have read Manusmriti yet.

Reading in the comfort of a home in the U.S., occasional visits to India cannot offer you the right view of how failed the thought is. All religions have good thoughts if you want to pick and choose. You may have seen the light in Hinduism that others have not.

@St-Sinner and that's what I know? or this was just your chance to elicit your diatribe that you've been dying to unload?

If in the midst of all this you had ever stopped and paid attention to what I've been saying you'd have realized none of this means anything to me. I built a narrative from the upanishads. Not Vivekananda, not Paramarthananda, not Ramakrishna, not Sai Baba. The upanishads. The exact same way that I approached Buddhism and stayed in constant turmoil with the sri lankan, thai and cambodian buddhists. And after the Mueller debacle I went to the sanskrit myself - although I confess to some eknath easwaran fudging with the brihad aranyaka. This was all to find the true beginnings of their philosophy before the taint of people further down.

The comments about "not acting like other [vedantists]" just make me laugh. DUH. There is a completely separate social component and structure within the vedas - but it has little to nothing to do with the upanishads. My interpretation has been from my own context, not theirs. I can't take the actual sannyasin vows and go live in the forest. That's not understood here. But I can learn the point of the original practice and follow it to the best of my ability in my own context. As for the various practices - I am a counselor and psychologist as well as a criminal defense lawyer and former nuclear engineer. My family is all in medicine. I see use for most of it from the psych perspective as well as the social value for identification.

Whether YOU think my views are legitimate is inconsequential. I'll be dead soon and the only one whose views I need to persuade are my own. So you can get bent.

@maturin1919 no flies on you huh?

@JeffMesser you're bowing down, making vows (even if not in a forest) to one particular form of Hindu practice, which in my opinion has become westernised with sandalwood flavouring 😊

@TimeOutForMe how do you have ANY idea what I am doing?

@maturin1919 well the shift apparently didnt slow you down a bit. I don't miss those days. namostute

Your views are not necessarily wrong but are a holistic view based on reading of texts. Many Harvard academics romanticize ancient, Eastern medicines and philosohies too. What you are missing is the context of ground realities. Your romantic view of something ancient, and less known is admirable but not correct. You may have a double Ph.D. from Harvard, have academics in the family but there is no alternative to understanding without a context. You have to live the reality. I have done that for 20 long years and have a view from the U.S. and India in my frequent visits every year.

@St-Sinner and what exactly is it that I'm missing? because my narrative of the universe is science so unless you have the unified theory ready I'm not sure there is anything you can say or add.

I said it seems you have a holistic view, a puritan view. It is not anywhere close to how it is in practice.

@St-Sinner I have my practice. I'm not sure what it is you think I'm not considering. I'm trying to give you an actual opportunity to articulate something instead of just screaming "ghost". By all means take advantage of it and articulate away.

Practice where? in the U.S.?
I am talking about how Hindu believers are told how to practice and how it is practiced in the land of its origin. If you tell me tomorrow that the philosophy of Congo is glorious and profound but all I see is mayhem and miseries, would your view matter to the world?

@St-Sinner 1. yes, in the US since this is where I live.
2. the culture there takes nothing away from the philosophy of advaita.
3. how it is practiced in the land of its' origin? who gives a shit? if you're trying to say that the country's history is bad empirical evidence then I still say that's materialism and rather subjective. would you like to compare history of wars between the US and India?
4. you need to learn that the science can be separated from the myth.

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