"Militants" are atheists who don't hide their lack of a belief and they ask that the government acts in accordance with the constitution.

No one is offended by nativity scenes. Religious displays on governement property is against the law. Insert any other religion's display and you'll see why there's a problem.

And what bad acts? Are atheists commiting violence or vandalism?

The things you listed come straight from right-wing propaganda.

One of my favorite Hitch quotes, "civility is overrated"

Like you, I respect religious people's right to be religious if it feels right to them. I also respect other atheist's right to be militantly antitheist if it feels right to them. So long as both sides avoid personal and physical attacks on the other, it's all fine by me.

I have no trouble being viewed as a "grumpy" atheist. Sometimes, you have to fight fire with fire. But hey, you do you.

They drew first blood.

Ever heard of the wedge document? The crusades? The systematic sexual abuses within Catholic churches? The denial of evolution??The lobbying for their religious agenda to be legislation??? The lies that spew from apologetics???? The indoctrination of our little brothers and sisters in private schools???? The systematic dismantling of our public education system in that effort??????? The crime of preaching the shirking of personal responsibility onto a higher power?????????? How about the idea that nothing we do matters? The sheer nihilism of the idea of an afterlife, and all you have to do is believe???????????????

Agreed. I like to say I'm an atheist but I'm not an asshole about it. And religious people are fine with me as long as they're not assholes about it.

Agree totally. I try to respect the religious until they try to jam something down my throat.

Well, you do you, and I'll do me.

I'm not rabidly anti-theist myself but I'm a deconvert from Christian fundamentalism and I think it's a very harmful ideology and so speak out against it in ways I deem appropriate.

The problem with many such believers is that they dishonestly mischaracterize mere disagreement (even, often, passive disagreement of simply not being one of them) with rudeness, arrogance, rebelliousness, licentiousness and outright deviance. No amount of finessing around their tender sensibilities suffices, they are not satisfied with anything short of humble repentance and joining up. This is not my problem, it is theirs.

Also many such people have a very carefully curated self-image as noble and virtuous when in actual practice they are controlling, vindictive and dickish. This also is not my problem, and so I don't feel any compunctions about pointing out when they are doing these negative things.

More generically, the religious have been accustomed for millennia to un-earned deference and respect in the marketplace of ideas. They are used to their notions being accepted and tap-danced around; anything less is blasphemy or disrespect. You must never question them or critique them. And this begs the question: how would you ever substantively and meaningfully and effectively engage with them at all, then?

Indeed, the most consistent refrain I hear from them is, "if you don't believe in god, why do you talk about him so much?" Which is just a gold-plated way of asking, "Why don't you atheists just shut the hell up?"

Curious what you consider respectful dialogue? I am all for respecting another's beliefs but I want honest discord. In a discussion with a theist of any kind I must point out that they believe in mythology and magic which is what religion is. I hold no animosity toward them it is simply being honest. I usually get attacked by people after I share that, but my tolerance of their right to believe whatever they want does not mean I have to hold out any possibility that some invisible supernatural world exists.

In every group in society, you are going to get sociopaths who will try to dominate thoughts and ideals with their own perspective. Unfortunately, for the rest of us, they end up as leaders of everything in society, it has been a major factor in our civilisation, but it does not need to be so. The people who shout the loudest and try to patronise or 'brow-bash', are starting to be ignored by the silent majority, so in that sense, the future is bright. In todays' reality they look ridiculous So just ignore them

You must live in a country/society where theists just love everyone equally, lives and let lives and keeps their theism to themselves and never attempt to impose their beliefs on anyone else.

For me it’s not about “respecting their beliefs.” Beliefs are just generalizations we make about the world in the absence of fact. If we had the data, we wouldn’t need the belief.

But DELIVERY is everything. Jon Stewart is my favorite approach to handling dissenting opinions. He took on the opinion, but did so with humor and could brilliantly bring out the absurdity of that type of thinking.

Bah humbug. take no prisoners !!

I think a lot of people have been hurt very badly by religion, and that can make respectful discourse a challenge. Ideally, one should be able to rationally, logically, and politely discuss their criticisms of religion and religious people without being rude or disrespectful, but if you've suffered in the past due to the thing you're discussing, it's not always easy.

I agree. id love to make an old church into a house.

I like your attitude - there's a lot of positive stuff in religions which should not be fought against. I love what the Christians have added to Yuletide with all their colourful carols, and that Dome on the Rock thing the Muslims built in Jerusalem is beautiful. My main problem with religious people is when they fail to condemn the holy hate in their holy texts; holy hate which actively drives abuses all the way up to genocide, so I refuse to stay silent on that point. I'm also not comfortable with the way children are brought up by people who indoctrinate them, wasting a huge proportion of their childhood as they fill their heads up with nonsense - that is highly abusive and it should be illegal to inflict it on any child who doesn't want it.

I am with you.

I think, when all is said and done, part of the reason I am Agnostic/Atheist is that it was NOT forced on me while too many other religions are all about rubbing your nose in it in hopes that you will become infected.

That said, I have had wonderful talks with Rabbi's, Priests (of various hats), Imams... it's usualy the lay people who have it VERY wrong and try to force it on you (for fear that they if you are happy, then maybe they are wrong, I somtimes wonder).

Agree although sometimes people do make comments that send me 'coldly mad' always the ones stating 'atheism is a belief' (Id rather have a convo with a theist) I think I need to get over this one and just ignore the post.

Welcome to the club

Me as well

Great post. What's so wrong with getting along?

A statue from the Dom in Fulda, Germany. Beautiful craftsmanship, and +1 for the stained glass windows.

I agree with you in that you are, indeed, a far better person than probably all but sixteen other atheists. Bravo, sir!

Very well put

I agree. Many people on this forum are rude and troll others as much as the alt-right do.