I’ve just been thinking about all the known religions I can think of and have come to the conclusion that apart from the obvious things they all have in common - that they are patriarchal, misogynistic, controlling and dictatorial., that there’s another aspect which has just struck me - it is that their hierarchy usually requires men to dress up in elaborate, colourful, flowing robes and strange headgear. Is this a “peacock” syndrome do you think? I ask this question because It’s a bit like the preening of the male birds in nature where they are much more colourful than the females of the species who are usually drab and uninteresting in comparison. In nature it’s to attract a mate of course, male birds and other animals have to work hard to attract and keep a female, sometimes going to extraordinarily flashy lengths to do so. In the same way do you think the hierarchy of the main churches have used colourful costumes to attract and keep in awe adherents to the church?
It’s not really a serious question I’m asking…just the result of waking during the night and not not getting back to, sleep, I found myself musing on a lot of trivial and unimportant things I’d never normally think about! I hope I get a better night’s sleep tonight…I can really do without these nighttime mental ramblings!
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17 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.The clerical vestments and paraphernalia are meant to symbolize a special relationship with the Sky Daddy. Sounds kinda kinky to me. 
Flyingsaucesir
Level 8
Oct 14, 2022
2
These guys are kinky…most of them are perverts too from all accounts!
It could be a jealous response to how women generally dress to attract and have so many powers such as that of nurturing, childbirth, peacemaking, givers of hope, that the priests want to dress similarly or more largely reminiscent of the female gender.
However, I also notice that many of the female spiritual ministers who perform weddings (my competition) wear long garbs in light chiffony airy fabric, like they imagine themselves to be angels or holy messengers in some way, and they love to be called "reverend" or some such title.
Me, I prefer to just wear something respectful and in keeping with my wedding party's color scheme, and simply be a peer to my clients and perform humanistic weddings focusing on just human emotions and integrity, not supernatural powers out there somewhere. Any advice I give them comes from experience and observance, not faith in something nobody can understand.
So, it seems to me some people just like to add an aura of glitz or mystique with their clothing, to seem to be someone they're not. Those are my thoughts.
Julie808
Level 8
Oct 13, 2022
1
I had a Humanist celebrant conduct my son Graeme’s funeral three years ago…and I can’t actually remember what she wore to be perfectly honest. I assume it was nothing flashy or memorable or I’d have taken more note of it!
@Marionville In my opinion, that's how it should be. We should be remembering the event more than the celebrant. We humanist celebrants tend to keep our clothing pretty low key, no need for all the robes and such some ministers wear, but to each their own.
It was a Humanist celebrant conducting a funeral I attended many years ago that made me want to become a celebrant. I love how the actual human was celebrated and the memories of her became part of us, rather than just attending a worship service with an "insert name here" type script.
I'm so sorry to hear you lost your son. I hope the funeral service was meaningful and memorable for you and all those who loved Graeme, to help with your grieving process.
@Julie808 Yes…I was very happy with the way the service was conducted by the celebrant - I liked her as a person when we met to discuss how it should go and to give her an idea of what Graeme was like as a person.
From.tjose who have researched history ,(which is not his story).. the word is of Greek origin... say ,women lied about paternity and lost control when they got caught.. we're still fighting today over that
I think women in control is acceptable as long as they don't lie about paternity again..
I don't know if this is the case though ,but it was interesting... Not sure if it's true ..
But men held women in highest esteem because they could give birth.. that makes sense..
laidback1
Level 6
Oct 13, 2022
1
The only control I want to exert is over my own body and mind. All major Religion is male dominated and misogynistic towards women…the high esteem they say they hold women in is not reflected in the actuality. Women in religion have subsidiary roles to men, men put themselves at the top, next to god who is male..naturally. Man created god after all..in his own image!
Nighttime mental ramblings are far too common. Often so trivial.
I think those in charge want to prove their worth/value by being peacocks.
Once in Vancouver as a young consulting engineer one of the company partners insisted that I wear a proper suit to a meeting with a top architect. His staff dressed like I did so I saw little point but went to the meeting in a Saville Row suit my father had bought me. I was never pressed to wear a suit again. 7 years later when I was at the top of my profession I'd wear a jumper and slacks as the prime consultant on a project. PeacockVille had been the glorious flower power from '66 to '74.
rogerbenham
Level 8
Oct 13, 2022
1
Power dressing is another name for it! Dress to impress…but sometimes the impression created is completely illusory…with no substance beyond mere window dressing!
I think the dressing up part is for a power trip. It’s like look at me I’m wearing these special clothes because I’m so important
abyers1970
Level 7
Oct 13, 2022
1
Yes…as I put it…like a peacock!
i never wake up and worry about stuff like that. Dreams may come out of my past somewhere but I also do not have heaven and hell dreams.
DenoPenno
Level 9
Oct 13, 2022
1
I never worry about heaven or hell either as I know neither exists! I can never remember my dreams so they don’t worry me either. This was in the middie of the night fully awake and my mind going off at a tangent!
@Marionville No, my dear, you do not know whether they exist. You believe that they do not. Similarly nor do I but knowledge requires facts and these we do not know. They seem like desperate fairy stories but there are a few who return from near death experiences who believe they met Jesus. Far be it for me to deny them. It will be as it it will be. I'll stick to Socrates.
@rogerbenham I may not have proof of their non-existence Roger…that’s true as you cannot actually prove a negative. However, on balance of probability based on lack of any credible evidence or verifiable proof, I’d say I’m as sure as I am of anything that neither heaven nor hell exists. As for other people and their beliefs ….they can believe anything they wish to…as long as they don’t try to impose those beliefs on me.
@rogerbenham Near death has nothing to do with death. They are not the same thing. The dead do not come back. If you think they do let's try this again after rigor has set in. Sorry. Still dead.
@DenoPenno And when one's brain shows no activity and one flat lines for a period of time and the doctors as saying death yet eventually they bring back to life, how are you naming that state? In my case they brought me back so quickly, I experienced nothing. But how do you explain people describing what was on top of ER shelving or describing conversations whilst they were"dead"?
Great observation, and I've had similar thoughts. Others have given some good observations here as well that I agree with, so I don't have much to add. It's really a game of King of the Hill, but more accurately "smoke and mirrors." I'm always reminded of the great and powerful Oz, "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!"
Have you watched the Bower bird? They are very elaborate and flashy with their courtship, and their bowers/nests are quite something!
RhondaShotwell
Level 7
Oct 13, 2022
3
Yes…I’d forgotten about the Bower Bird…!
LMFAO. Great post but I think it an interesting question. Your theory is quite correct, by my logic, but I would add that it's more than just for attraction. It also signifies dominance and strength (even in the animal world, of which we humans are part of).
rainmanjr
Level 8
Oct 13, 2022
2
Good Point!
I especially like the tall hat theory regarding domination. taller men seem to automatically garner respect in most societies.
Fernapple's remarks about ancient dress habits for men from long ago seems applicable as well.
Ritual and embellishment attract many people. I've often said if I was a believer I would want to go to a beautiful Church which used lots of ritual to help separate me from my ordinary day-to-day life.
Lorajay
Level 9
Oct 13, 2022
2
It was exactly that grandeur and spectacle which the Puritans who travelled on the Mayflower objected to…they wanted plainer clothing and more austere meeting houses so they sailed away to the New World and founded their new colonies on that austerity.
@Marionville another example of why we have chocolate and vanilla ice cream.
@Marionville Every time a new sect hives off from an older, established faith some time of physical alteration is usually made in order to distinguish the new, improved religion from the old corrupt one. Enacting new dietary restrictions also works, which is really the origin of Jewish kosher laws: “We, the true people of the Lord, don’t eat unclean food such as swine. Those who do are polluted and therefore inferior to us.”
@NostraDumbass Very true…! The more ridiculous and restrictive the new rules…the better it appears to be for the seriously deluded religious fanatic
The mormons don't have elaborate clothing or headwear, but they are most definitely male dominant.
Lilac-JadeCanada
Level 9
Oct 13, 2022
2
No…but they do have magic underwear though! What the hell is that all about!!
@Marionville Yeah, my grandparents wore them, & so did my mother after she got her temple endowments.
The “underwear” you refer to is a temple garment, often called simply “garments” by Latter-day Saints. Only adult Mormons who have made temple covenants wear them. They are an “outward expression of an inward commitment to always remember the Lord.”
Mother told me when I was a girl, that it was to protect from harm & disease. Then a church woman died of bowel cancer, & I began thinking.....''bullfeathers''!!!!!
@Lilac-JadeCanada I do not understand why the wearing of such a garment is a curiosity for folks. I'm not a LDS, though my brother and in-law family were, but it makes perfect sense to me. You've got to wear a garment anyway so why not make it remind one of their spirit by shielding it in armor?
@rainmanjr Yeah, but wearing it under a swim suit at the beach looks ridiculous.
@Lilac-JadeCanada I wish that I knew what you guys are talking about. As far as I know the SDA's do not wear something.
It’s the opposite intent of my reply below to Fernapple. In this case the message is: “We are above you, therefore deserving of your respect and deference.”
But the “taller and dominant” comment by Snowy Owl made me chuckle. Wish I’d put it that way. Same difference.
NostraDumbass
Level 7
Oct 13, 2022
2
It’s a bit similar to the small man syndrome too. The smaller the man the bigger the car…in other words “my dick’s bigger than your dick…even if you’re at least a foot and a half taller than me”!
Welcome to the club. This sort of sleeping mindfulness is a affliction I, and I'm sure, many others share. I have gotten to have a notebook by the bedside. My most revealing thoughts come in the middle of the night. Have been told Lemon Balm tea is good to quiet the mind at night. Still, a great idea.
JackPedigo
Level 9
Oct 13, 2022
2
Thanks…I don’t as a rule suffer from this affliction..but tonight I’ll be tired after choir practice and I’ll have a nightcap too before I retire.
But that makes one pee.
Modern religions allow for male or female but not others, males are to be dominant and females submissive but what to do with the others that don't fit into this system? The Church has always been a haven for the others who did not fit into one of the two accepted genders and is it any wonder that effeminate males would seek sanctuary in an institution that would allow them to be themselves behind closed doors at least? The wearing of ritualized female clothing by clergy isn't that surprising and elaborate headgear can make a short priest look a lot taller and dominant, so that has a purpose as well.
SnowyOwl
Level 8
Oct 13, 2022
4
This is an accurate way of describing religion.
CuddyCruiser
Level 8
Oct 13, 2022
5
Yes…I think I’ve hit the nail on the head! 
It could well be, especially since most religions are generally ultra conservative as well, and the modern fashion for men to dress down and women to dress up, is quite a recent one, on the whole, so it could be a hang on from old fashions.
Although if you are having another sleepless night, you may like to think about the why some dictators especially, like Hitler, Napoleon , Putin etc. often dress down and then surround themselves with brightly uniformed troops, could it be clever fake modesty, with a deliberate ironic twist "I alone don't need to dress up." or did they just get lazy ? Sleep well.
Fernapple
Level 9
Oct 13, 2022
5
Thank you…I think tonight I’ll sleep ok..it’s choir night and I don’t go to bed until the adrenaline levels drop and I feel really tired.
I read an excellent book recently called “Strongmen: From Mussolini to the Present” in which the author, Ruth Ben-Ghiat, offers up the following explanation for your “dressing down” observation: It’s basically a posturing strategy used by tyrants in order to connect with the masses in order to win their approval and support. “See, I’m really just an ordinary guy like you. I will represent you, because I am one of you.”
@NostraDumbass I’m remembering Winston Churchill wore a boiler suit which resembled workmen’s overalls….it’s also sometimes called a siren suit - during WW2….
[sartorialnotes.com]
@NostraDumbass Yes, it's camouflage. The Dictator fades and the attention is given to those who protect him/her. They get their ego stroked but the Dictator is dressed in uniform or work clothing to bond with the people so all win.
It sounds like something your body decided that you had to wake up to sort out things that need sorting out. I wake up 3 sometimes 4 times a night for other medical reasons in addition You are not abnormal . but it may turn out to be significant.
Mcflewster
Level 8
Oct 13, 2022
4
I hope not. I normally waken once during the night but can get back to sleep again immediately after a visit to the loo!
3 times is Ok, 8 times is hell. A night without sleep once every 3 weeks. A night with more than 5 hours a celebration.7 last night with 2 pills.
@rogerbenham Yes I would agree . When you find the solution to this let us know if you can.It would be a service to a lot of people. And what were the pills? I will not blame you for any consequences
@Mcflewster Zopiclone
I’ve always thought it strange that these religions are so misogynistic, yet they dress in clothes that many would say are for females!! I think you’re on to something there Marje! I hope you get a better nights sleep tonight!! 
Redheadedgammy
Level 9
Oct 13, 2022
3
Here’s hoping….maybe a single malt will do the trick tonight!
@Marionville The nights I drink a glass of wine, I find I do sleep much better.
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