(This is an addendum to another post about liberalism):
It is misleading and wrong to treat liberalism and libertarianism as fundamentally different (as do many people in the USA, where socialists call themselves "liberals", whereas libertarians call themselves "conservatives", which is rather peculiar, to say the least).
No, just as the two words are related and have a common root ('liber', Latin for 'free), so are the two ideologies. Liberalism, so to speak, is the mother which gave birth, in the anglo-american world, to 'libertarianism', the latter being nothing but a somewhat radical version of its mother.
The common ideological core of the two is what I would call the self-empowerment of the Western individual, empowerment against the state, traditional authorities, the demands of society in general. The Western individual put himself center-stage and assured himself that it is endowed but the creator, or by nature, with inalienable rights and with a special kind of dignity that cannot be found elsewhere in the world. And when classical liberals talk about the 'common good', this is always derived from the actions of individuals (as in the theory of Adam Smith, one of the founders of liberalism).
(And to be precise: originally it was not the Western individual as such, but the white , property-owning man who empowered himself using the concepts of liberalism, but this detail is irrelevant to my argument)
Edit: In the Spanish Wikipedia, you'll find : Libertarismo, libertarianismo o liberalismo libertario, términos sinónimos que aglutinan a las ideologías que defienden la libertad individual, el antiestatismo y el mercado libre.
All over the world, except in the anglo-american sphere, libertarianism is just a radical version of liberalism.
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A post by Skado suggested that atheists have cognitive dissonance. I think you must have if you call yourself a conservative and a socialist. That is if you are meaning it in a political sense .Conservatives are adverse to change and long for the good old days when everyone knew their place in society with the king/lord /boss at the top and the manual workers at the bottom.
Socialism really started in the late 19th century certainly in the UK with the decriminalisation of trade unions.
Sure there were altruistic employers like Cadbury in England and Robert Owen at New Lanark in Scotland but it was the spread of the trade unions that gave the working man the influence and power he deserved.
I suppose you are correct in saying that libertarianism is an extreme form of liberalism but so is anarchy.
Moravian
Level 8
Apr 8, 2023
1
What you present are stereotypes. Most people today purchase their political worldview as a 'package' of opinions, values etc. If you want to call yourself a conservative, you have to be in favor of A, B, C and D; and against E,F, G and H. For liberals, it's just the opposite. If you call yourself a liberal, but you are in favor of A, or against H, you are considered a traitor. (Skado complained a few days ago that he is treated as a bad liberal just because he's not a card-carrying atheist.)
I did not buy my worldview a s a package, but assembled it myself, using my reason. As for the economy, it#s socialism, but I'm conservative when it's about law and order, immigration or other rather cultural issues. And so on. This political worldview may not be pure, but at least it's mine
I agree with everything except the last paragraph. Libertarians, at least in the US, seem to err on the side of the fewest possible laws and no social safety nets. Liberals fully support taxation to provide basic human rights and protections to people. Can't see how they can be much further apart.
BD66:
In the UK, the early "Conservatives" hated the capitalists and feared them more than the workers. They wanted to maintain the "good old days" where the lords had all the land and all the money, the peasants worked on the land for a pittance, and the lords had all the political power. Once the capitalists industrialists came along (many not belonging to the nobility), created factories, and offered the rural peasants a better life, the "Conservatives" lost their labor force and had to accept the fact that some of the commoners had more wealth and power than they did.
That's totally different than the USA where we never did have nobility, so the "Conservatives" were those who built up wealth through agriculture and/or industry. So words in two countries that share a common heritage and a common language can mean something very different.
Being liberal and being a Libertarian are two different things. Words mean different things also to different people in different parts of the world. In America a Libertarian might believe almost anything and lean more to the right with fewer laws or no laws. A liberal on the other hand might be politically Progressive like I am, but many do not go that far. I believe in having what is good for everyone and all of us being treated the same. An American Libertarian might call this Communism but it is not.
DenoPenno
Level 9
Apr 7, 2023
0
A good rule of thump should be: Let's not talk about words, because they are after all just labels. Let's talk or discuss about ideas and concepts.
Words such a "Progressive" have been misused. What is progressive about "Progressives"?
@Thibaud70 Bro, you're the one that keeps trying to define words for the rest of us...
I for one won’t be viewing anymore of your hate. Before I go though, rest assured you bigoted intolerant fucks are a dying breed. You’re best chance was WWII, and you losers couldn’t get it done. You’re dying off as is your medieval religious bullshit. We will be rid of your kind soon enough.
Aaron70
Level 8
Apr 7, 2023
0
FYI, a conservative is nothing more than someone who think’s religious scriptures are fact, and science is opinion. You hate liberals simply for not falling in step with your bigoted conservative views, and no other reason.
You aren’t a socialist, although you may well be a libertarian, as most of you Nazi fucks are….
Aaron70
Level 8
Apr 7, 2023
0
Libertarian is just a right winger who likes to smoke pot.
BufftonBeotch
Level 8
Apr 7, 2023
3
Ron Paul is a libertarian that once ran for the conservatives , he was too honest to be selected for President.I've known Ron Paul has the highest honored anarchist. I don't vote because I don't take stack or stock into bankster and Statist, the two top scammer on earth.
Castlepaloma
Level 8
Apr 7, 2023
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