What is yalls take on forgiveness? Jesus said let he who is without sin throw the first stone. She broke the law as a prostitute, and the law demanded the death penalty. Jesus saved her life, since all the men realized they also broke the law, judgement was withheld.
Modern day laws we have kamala harris smoking weed while prosecuting people for the same thing.
Its obvious hypocrisy.
However, without laws, shit could be bad too, like black gangs going around killing people.
So what is the atheist perspective on this?
Be a hypocrite and judge or
Be killed and forgive?
Other
1
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15 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.The real answer is "Do more analysis, so that you can explain and give due ' weight ' to what ever grievance exists, a solution that satisfies both sides can then possibly emerge "
Anger just slows the whole process down.
Mcfluwster
Level 7
Oct 27, 2024
0
A fella cuts down a tree, destroying your house. Says he wants you to pay him to fix it. Blames you for not moving the house out the way. Do you sue or take your losses?
@Communistbitch You cannot swing your fist any closer than 1cm from your opponent's nose and face. It is much easier and fairer for the axman to reinstate the house than for you to move your house before the [unannouced?] attempt to destroy it . He loses any court case by deed of lack of reason and humanity. He/she can probably build a new house very easily and cheaply.
Funny that you would use an example like
"black gangs going around killing people." In the United States, historically, it has been mostly white gangs going around killing (black) people. There's even a special word for it: lynching. Look up "Jim Crow South," and KKK. Edify yourself.
Flyingsaucesir
Level 8
Oct 26, 2024
1
Well since i live today, and not in the past, it's obviously far more dangerous to be around black people, even for black people.
@Communistbitch And why do you think that might be? Ya think it might have anything to do with 400+ years of slavery, followed by 100 years of Jim Crow, followed by systematic exclusion of black people from pathways to generational wealth such as home ownership and higher education, combined with mass incarceration of black men for what often amounts to picayune offenses or even false imprisonment on trumped-up charges?
By the way, the FBI says the biggest threat to civil society today is white supremacist militias, not black people.
Get a clue, junior.
@Flyingsaucesir no, because it's true regardless of what country they are in
@Communistbitch Well thank you for clarifying that you are a racist as well as a dumbass.
@Flyingsaucesir statistics show otherwise, they aren't racist, it's just factual information. You can deny it if you want to, but if you see countries that are more homogenous, they have a lower crime rate. There's also the statistic that shows asians and jews have a higher iq than white people
@Flyingsaucesir when you force different cultures together (forced assimilation or forced association), there will obviously be increased conflict and violence. People shouldn't be forced to associate with people they don't want to be around, and neither should people be forced to separate, there's a fine line there.
@Flyingsaucesir the fbi says a lot of stupid shit. They lost credibility a long time ago
@Communistbitch The only people who were forced to assimilate were the black people brought here (North America) as slaves.
Word of advice: when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.
@Flyingsaucesir it's not true, they weren't the only people forced to assimilate. You are a fucking idiot anyway. You are digging a hole yourself. Apparently that white threat had to do with Jan 6th. The summer of love, rioting, etc doesn't count in your book. Plus the leader of the proud boys wasn't even white. Your narrative is skewed and stupid. This is an attempt to intimidate me. I'm sorry you are an asshole
@Communistbitch Re the FBI, you can dismiss information that does not correspond to your preconceived notions all you want. It won't change the facts though.
You can also stop digging at any time.
@Flyingsaucesir Ryan Carson thought like you too
@Communistbitch Speaking of random, unprovoked attacks, this (white) guy shot 473 people one night. What happens in Vegas...
You see how your point fails?
...doesn't necessarily stay in Vegas.
Stop digging.
@Flyingsaucesir you are far more likely to be killed by a black guy than a white guy. However, those one individual killed a lot more people in one setting. Ryan Carson believed black people were victims like you do, and was killed by a black guy. If you don't want to be like Ryan Carson, you should start paying attention to your surroundings, and get the idea out of your head that black people love you and can do nothing wrong to you
@Communistbitch I never said or implied that I think there is any group that loves me "and can do no harm to" me.
I simply acknowledge the fact that, in the USA, I'm at least as likely to be murdered by a white person as by a person of color.
Especially in light of the fact that immigrants to the USA commit crimes at lower rates than native-born citizens.
@Flyingsaucesir no way in bloody hell is that true. That's off the walls insane if you believe that.
@Communistbitch Read 'em and weep!
I have to agree more with communistbitch
Because 13% of blacks have 55% of the total murders in America. Blacks have the same rights as whites. I'm not racist because my favorite people are women of colour..
Main reason for black criminals.
Nearly 70% of all Black babies in America today are born to unmarried mothers, and 64% of all Black children grow up in a single-parent home. Tragically, fatherlessness strongly correlates with negative outcomes in nearly every aspect of a child's life.
The American system creates it too easy for black women to collect welfare and to have babies without fathers.
@Castlepaloma Congratulations, you just repeated a white-supremacist, racist trope. 
The actual numbers are probably closer to 13/33, which is still bad, but to be expected in a sub-group that has been systematically oppressed for so long. 400+ years of slavery, followed by 100 years of Jim Crow, followed by segregation, redlining, and mass incarceration. It's a wonder the numbers aren't worse.
White supremist is a myth in the scale of human histoty and whites are only 16% of the world population. This racist theory is making things worse. I know I'm not into any centroism or coloniism..
@Castlepaloma Yet you use the language of white supremacists. Go figure.
The claim that Harris was smoking marijuana while prosecuting other persons for doing the same thing has been debunked as a false claim.
The law(s) broken by the prostitute, which Jesus supposedly forgave, were religious laws, not criminal laws, although at the time when Jesus supposedly lived, there often wasn't much differentiation by those who were religious. If you would remember the actual prosecution of Jesus, Roman officials didn't want to actually prosecute Jesus, because the charges were brought by religious officials.
So, I don't believe you came up with an legitimate comparison for both above stated reasons.
Trump on the other hand has broken criminal laws, and has been found guilty. In addition in civil courts it was proven that he raped a woman, and defrauded New York state, both to get more desirable interest rates on loans, and also to make it appear he owed less taxes than he actually did. Trump is a liar, a cheat, a fraud and a rapist. Not the kind of person I think should have access to the U.S. nuclear codes. Even worse, he has stated he plans to govern like a (totalitarian) dictator, and open stated that he plans to use the justice department and the military to go after his perceived enemies.
All of the above makes Harris the vastly much better choice.
snytiger6
Level 9
Oct 25, 2024
4
She said it herself. Of course I smoke Marijuana I'm Jamaican. And I inhaled it. Its clearly cut and dry.
That was word salad.. harris smoked marijuana = fact
Harris prosecuted marijuana = fact
Did she prosecute herself? No
The article was a bunch of bs.
He admitted she prosecuted people for marijuana.
He's beating around the bush
@Communistbitch No, she did not prosecute marijuana smokers. That is where you are mistaken. She has prosecuted those who illegally distributed marijuana, usually because they wee also distributed other drugs as well, and the selling and distribution of drugs is VERY different from recreationally using them.
Your response was so quick, I doubt you actually read the article, but as it did not agree with your preconceived notions, you just labeled it as "bs".
@snytiger6 don't be so daft. She committed a crime. She didn't hold herself accountable. Its not rocket science
@Communistbitch I notice you don't even mention any of the crimes Trump has committed. He has been tried and found guilty of felonies and has three more criminal indictments.
In several states, including California, Harris' home state, marijuana use is legal. It has been legal in California since 2016. It is also legal in several other states, including my own.
If it were true that Harris committed a crime, a claim of which I am dubious, apparently it was not at all, all that serious. Not compared to the crimes which it was proven Donald Trump has committed, and is accused of committing.
@snytiger6 so how does this make you different than a Christian, whi says they eat pork, but being gay is a sin? You've just become what you despise
@snytiger6 people will change the laws according to.the ones they break , similar to Christians eating pork. Cherry picking isn't exclusive to Christians apparently
Word:
You say"The law(s) broken by the prostitute, which Jesus supposedly forgave, were religious laws, not criminal laws,"
You seem confused, what you think is religion is theocracy government. Sin is an antiquated term for crime. Crime = sin, sin = crime.
Saying it is "religion law" as if to down play the Israel government laws of 2000 years ago, is like equating them to the policy and procedure manuel for a nursing home or orphanage.
Sin is the transgression of the law" is a verse from the Bible, 1 John 3:4:
Religion ... pure and faultless is this: to help widows and orphans in need and avoiding worldly corruption. James 1:27
How is it you Fail utterly to understand that if one is hired for a job, like oh, say, a Prosecutor, that one is Required to do the job. I.e. enforce existing laws to the utmost of one-s ability....and that lawyers are held to a Very high standard in this regard.....otherwise it is dereliction of duty.
I suppose you think that clerk who refused to issue marriage licenses to those who did not meet with her approval was doing her job properly? She's now doing time, I hear.......
annewimsey500
Level 7
Oct 25, 2024
3
Yes, but in so doing, it is clearly hypocrisy
@Communistbitch No that is not true, having a professional persona and a private one, is certainly not double values. While having double values is certainly not the same things as hypocrisy, which means doing a thing, for the personal vanity of feeling you are viewed well by the world. Even if it was true that it was an example of double values, that would still be a misuse of the word hypocrisy.
@Fernapple if you pretend to believe in the law, and yet violate that law, and do not hold yourself to the same standard as you hold others, that is the very definition of hypocrisy, however inconvenient it may be.
@Communistbitch That misses the point, which is that to enforce the law, you do not have to believe in the law, only to believe that doing your job is more important. Especially since being a prosecutor is part of the process of ensuring that the perpetrator receives a fair trial, and you may indeed do it out of sympathy with those prosected by the law, and the wish to ensure that the unreasonable zealous do not prosecute.
And even if the story and your interpretation of it were entirely correct it would still be duplicity, immorality or double values and not hypocrisy. I am sorry that English is such a difficult language.
@Fernapple here you go dawg
@Fernapple if you don't believe the law and you enforce it then that makes you a hypocrite
@Communistbitch That must be American English.
@Communistbitch Not at all. It just makes you a responsible professional. If all law enforcement officials all went around just enforcing the laws they liked, regardless of their duty to the democratic powers that appointed them, then there would be anarchy. ( You want to beat a person of another race, just for being a different colour. Then just take them to another county, where the enforcement is in the hands of racist officers and do it there. )
@Fernapple i guess you have a problem understanding basic words that describe things such as people pretending to believe things they don't believe. That would be like you going to a catholic church and pretending to believe, that is hypocrisy
@Fernapple naw dawg they call it ebonics
@Communistbitch No, going to church and pretending to believe is hypocrisy exactly. But that is quite different, from going to church and pretending you believe, when you actually believe something quite different, which is what you are talking about. Can you see the difference now,
@Fernapple and pretending to believe the law, and not following those laws, is hypocrisy too. What difference does it make that you believe something different?
@Communistbitch Because believing something different is a lot more than hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is just pretending far greater devotion for vain reasons.
@Fernapple hypocrisy is pretending to believe something you don't, or doing something you tell others not to do. The clearest example is police officers giving tickets for speeding, when they speed, or not using turn signals. Its really not racist science. Nobody follows the law, everyone pretends to believe it.
I don't care what a possible fictional person such as Jesus may or may not have done according to a mostly fictional book. And "sin" is a made up problem and is not a crime.
Secondly, smoking weed is not a "sin" though possession of marijuana is a crime in many parts of the U.S. But working as a prosecutor in California Harris avoided jail time for people charged with possession of marijuana.
Laws don't actually prevent murders. Gangs, regardless of the ethnicity of the members, will kill people because they believe they can get away with it. If laws stopped murder then we would not have any murders.
All humans judge. Its our nature. But it makes no sense to reduce it to a choice of hypocrisy or death. Its a completely silly question.
Charles1971
Level 7
Oct 25, 2024
4
Sin means to violate the law, so in modern day terms, smoking weed is a sin. Its simply archaic language. All laws are fictional and made up by man. If laws do not prevent murder, then why have laws? It's simply hypocrisy
@Communistbitch Sin and law are not the same. Dishonoring your parents and worshiping false idols is a sin. Neither of those things are illegal nor should they be. Except under very specific situations lying is not illegal nor should it be. Most "sins" in the bible are just silly rules that have no actual place in modern law.
Laws don't prevent murder. Laws are made to punish those who commit murder. People who murder do so for one of three reasons: they don't believe they will get caught (because they think too smart or somehow above the law), they don't care if they get caught (psychopaths and serial killers), or at the time of the murder they were not considering the consequences (heat of the moment).
Sin is not the same as law or morality or ethics. In the christian bible, rape is not a sin, nor is slavery or child abuse or war. But you'd better not eat any pork or shrimp!!!!
@Charles1971 sin is breaking the law. Yes it was the law with punishment for dishonoring your parents back then. Today, the laws have changed
I kill those who upset me time and time again using different methods - in my head.
Is that counted as forgiveness?
Ryo1
Level 8
Oct 25, 2024
1
Forgiveness makes no sense, ir you keep killing. Kinda like Israel keeps killing in Gaza.
Ryo1:
@Castlepaloma
At least I'm not killing anyone for real. 
I kill someone who upset me in my head, and it's done, I can move on. I become indifferent to that person. They are out of my life. I'm cool.
Of course, it depends on the context. The victims of Israeli attack in Gaza would probably not be able to forgive Israel for a long time. You forgive someone probably because the act of forgiveness makes you feel good about yourself. I don't know.
@Ryo1 Jesus said whatever you do in your heart, you have done . Something like that
Ryo1:
@Communistbitch
Is it like self-satisfaction?
@Ryo1 no he said whoever looks at a married woman.in just already commit adultery in their heart. So he's saying you are guilty of murder in your heart. But these are fictional stories, they supposed to teach us something
Ryo1:
@Communistbitch
Ah, OK. It's kinda self-discipline, then.
@Ryo1
Your not killing , your getting rid of someone who is very negative towards you. Forgiving someone is more about releiving yourself of the burden. For the person who victimized you.and probably doesn't care you forgave him.
Ryo1:
@Castlepaloma
There you are, then. You forgive someone for your own sake, not for the person who vistimised you. You forgive the burglar who broke into your house and stole your belondings all you like, but the burglar doesn't give a rat's behind about you forgiving them, so they carry on burgling.
@Ryo1
Feels better if the cops can hunt the burglar down, yet they rarely do. IT'S better to prepare my house, for less chance of being robbed next time. Why carry regret and worries with you for years. I actually build tiny houses ,and not one has been robbed. Also don't have enemies, don't get angry, hate or killed anyone. That kind of stress can take 10=20 years off your life.
@Ryo1 no, the adulterer was let free. Judgement was withheld, because all the people realized they also committed a crime, that's the story, you aren't forgiving the adulterer because you feel better, but because of self reflection and the realization of the hypocrisy of judging others. That's the point of the fictional story
Ryo1:
@Castlepaloma
But, mate, I don't carry anger, hate, stress, etc. with me for a long time as you assume. I overcome such emotions in my head, not necessarily by forgiveness as I explained. After that, I become indifferent and move on. End of story.
Ryo1:
@Castlepaloma, @Communistbitch
I guess it makes sense as far as that story goes. It's Jesus way, right? But it could also go like 'She cheated on me so I'm doing the same, and she can't blame me for that because that will make her a hypocrite", right?
Since I'm a non-believer, instead of forgiving someone for their wrongdoing and accepting them back in open arms, Jesus way, I will probably interact with them, if I must, with differentl attitude towards them in the future, i.e. with an indifferent frame of mind, not a resentful frame of mind.
Anyway, nice chatting with you mate. Catch you later.
@Ryo1 no, don't make the mistake of thinking you have to welcome them with open arms. Boundaries are important. Just because they forgave the adul, doesn't mean they hang out with her. They left, walked away. Forgiveness doesn't require association. If they killed someone, don't invite them in your house, they'll probably kill you.. true story a lady invited the man that murdered her mom in her house, gave him a job, then he killed her.
Ryo1:
@Communistbitch There you have it. That's the reality we live in. Cheers.
There is no such thing as an "atheist perspective" on anything. All atheists are different, and hold many different views on everything, and atheism is not a religion, belief system or a world view, only a collective name for people who share one idea, which is the rejection of belief in a theist god.
However if you would like to know the views of at least one person, who did not take god given truth as certain, see my comment below.
Fernapple
Level 9
Oct 25, 2024
8
Seem like we were all born as individuals first. Everything esle is a learning process
.
Actually Jesus probably did not say. "Throw the first stone." Since, even if you leave aside the idea that Jesus is, himself, not completely proved to have existed, and accept that most experts in the field of biblical history, think that a real person probably, though not provably, did exist. Then you have to accept that those same experts, usually place the biblical stories into a spectrum of probability, from the most probably true to the almost certainly false.
And sad to say, the story of the woman taken in adultery, though one of the nicest and most famous, is at the, almost certainly false, end of the spectrum, being a clear forgery only added to the text in the late middle ages. And though we do not have a name for the writer, amazingly we do have the original copy, or at least first copies of the manuscript, in which it first appeared. Which is more than we have for perhaps any other biblical story. So that, while it is often hard to say which stories in the modern bible may have a foothold in truth, and which not. The "woman taken in adultery", is is one of the few where there is a little more available than mere subjective judgments, albeit the judgments of textural experts, to support opinions about its veracity, and sadly that judgment comes down on the side of, fake.
Which was actually admitted by the writer himself, who in the earliest manuscripts, began the story with the line. "I have heard this story told." and did not include it in the main body of the text. Though it was of course included in the main body by later copiers, and eventually into versions like the King James.
All of which means that the idea, almost certainly came from a secular morality held by the far later author of the story, who wanted to try to improve the earlier primitive moral codes of the Bible, which he found, even in the middle ages, to be morally questionable. Which means that the author of the story, certainly did not find biblical morality to be fixed and inviolate, in a sacred sense, so that he was therefore acting as a secular agent, even though he may have been a believing Christian. Which I think answers your question, to a degree about at least one groups secular view on forgiveness.
Fernapple
Level 9
Oct 25, 2024
6
Do you believe in forgiveness or judgement?
Even if the story is fictional, like little red riding hood, it teaches a moral, don't talk to strangers. In this story, it exposes everyone as having broken the law, and the hypocrisy of being judgemental. I'm just trying to see the other side of this, the justification of laws, of course, to protect people from violence, but it doesn't seem to do that either, in some cases
People in biblical times, only managed their life expectancy to late 20s age. What a terrible example on how to live life. Death penalties were far too often and death over many ridiculous things. Today's about 70% of the world has banned death penalties all together. In self defence, I believe only using equal force to force . Not an eye for an eye , that makes the whole world blind. Forgive is very important, so a person doesn't go through life with painful regrets.
Death penalty are hypocrisy, to kill someone to prove that killing is wrong. Or worse like In the US the top 10 worse sins are, about half of those Christians sins are sexual related. Sex is ultimate pressure, a death penalty is the ultimate pain , A divorse is probably second most painful experience. That more often Christians go through more so than non belivers.
Castlepaloma
Level 8
Oct 25, 2024
0
i was beat dam near to death in 2012 buy three Hells angels puppet club members. i knew it was going to hurt there was three of them and they were 20 years younger than me yea i wanted to go back and kill them, but i didn't. a few years went by and i spoke with a few hells angels i knew, like 20 years ago now as old as me and they said they didn't patch them fuckers because they beat me with out asking their permission. so shit has a way of coming around!
1patriot
Level 8
Oct 25, 2024
1
In this case, you "forgave" the attacker, and did not seek revenge or have them arrested. So that was a "Christian" response. (Im atheist too, but....the quote is vengeance is mine, thus sayeth the lord) so you followed scripture to the T
@Communistbitch maybe i did it for peace of mind cause 2 years later i still had to find their names! they all kept there mouths shut on who they were...yet everyone else knew who i was! and my wife and children!
@1patriot that's fucked up
Please Pay Attention, this is important and will help A Lot if you understand:
You are a wanna-be rabble-rousing nasty idiot and you need to try these stunts on FB, or x or wherever other idiots gather.
annewimsey500
Level 7
Oct 24, 2024
6
X is run by a commie. Elon musk too, he's leading the opposition, similar to Lenin
@Communistbitch Annie is a communist bitch thou!
You forgive the person, not the act. All for "eye for an eye" for those that willingly take life.
You forgive the person for selfish reasons. If you don't, you just eat yourself up with hate and vengeful thoughts.
Society is a group and groups form doctrine; laws and rules. How devoted you are to the doctrine depends on how you wish to function in that societal group eg you get away with what you can mostly.
The law is not justice but is there so society functions. People need boundaries.
So yes forgive the person but not the act. And some acts deserve very harsh punishment imo but as I need to function in society, I defer to it's doctrine...................mostly 
puff
Level 8
Oct 24, 2024
2
puff:
An example. So sad too bad.
Your perspective is rather limited. As always, life is shades of gray rather than black and white.
HippieChick58
Level 9
Oct 24, 2024
7
Word salad, use examples
@Communistbitch Sorry, I didn't realize my words were too big for you.
@HippieChick58 no, they literally said nothing.
@HippieChick58 oh you have No idea , the words you need to use are smaller than his idols dick......
@Communistbitch You seem to be the only one having trouble understanding my words. Were you another one of those children that were left behind?
@HippieChick58 i asked you to use real life examples, you decided to resort to name calling instead. Give a real life example of a gray area
@Communistbitch I didn't see her call you a name. You have trouble understanding or just want to be disagreeable. What she said has meaning and appears to fit. Pretending you don't understand suggests other issues.
Who wrote the law, anyway? I don't remember the bibble having a prohibition against prostitution.....
pamagain
Level 8
Oct 24, 2024
4
Prostitution was used in some of the religions of that time in order to get money for the religion.
The law obviously is made up by people, and yes, the woman committed a crime in those times that demanded the death penalty being stoned to death, regardless of what the crime is, is besides the point
She was accused of adultery, my mistake
@Communistbitch Same thing, innit?
@pamagain slightly different. Adultery means a married person cheats on their wife or husband, has sex outside of the marriage. Prostitution is sex for money or other goods
@Communistbitch Not to be sarcastic but....yes....I GET THAT. What it's REALLY all about is punishing women for any kind of sexuality other than the old goat-smelling man your father sold you to for a few of those goats.
@pamagain well today men make up most of the prisons,not women. That's a different topic altogether
@Communistbitch Testosterone is a very dangerous substance.
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