[m.spiegel.de]

[m.spiegel.de]

I agree. In my indirect dealings with survivors of human sexual trafficking, I would say it’s a way of life with which they are familiar, and have not explored or aware of other vocational skills they possess. They only know they get paid, and it some indifferent detached way, they find comfort or nurturing in this profession.

It is true that many have been abused in the past and therefore technically it is not a free choice but the majority of free choice is based on past experiences and people react to those in different ways. Maybe the abuse has drawn then to that career but there are more people who are abused who don't take that path so I would argue there is still a choice and they shouldn't be criminalised

Well how do we ascertain whether or not someone wants to truly be a message therapist, or a teacher or solder or any profession for that matter? If prostitutes have the option to work in clean regulated brothels or I suppose some could be self employed, they will be free to choose if they want to get into it and free to choose if they would like to get out of it.

Legalization would fill the need for prostitutes with those who do freely chose to do it in safe clean environments and would put the illegitimate parts of the industry and human trafficking out of business. It's similar to how we very rarely come across illegal unregulated booze these days. During prohibition it was the only option but now it's simple enough to just go to a bar or liquor store. There aren't many unregulated breweries and distilleries operating outside of the rules established by government because it's simply makes more sense to operate within the limits of the law. The same will be true for prostitution. And drugs for that matter. Just look at countries that have legal options for prostitution and you will see that their prostitutes live safer better lives and are free and protected by law while ours find themselves in horrible conditions with little freedom to get out if they want to because the people they work for are operating outside the law and care little for the freedom and feelings of their sex workers.

legal or not I would say most prostitution is a perpetuation of sexual abuse. If it is not legal the punishment should go to the purchaser of the services.@robograham the careers you cited are not illegal.They do not involve the exploitation or abuse of power (thinking especially of teacher) that sexual involvement automatically opens one to.ANd to anyone that has had those conversations where they think the person is happy about doing it, there are other conversations from another point of view you may not have had.Alcohol is legal but you can not tell me that society does not suffer negative consequences of its use, legal or not

@Dave92 the puchaser should be criminalized

@SamMcGlone talk to them in 10 years. If what you are saying is that it is a great business opportunity then there should be no problem guiding your children or other loved ones to this choice

Let's determine why men crave sex. To get around monogamy?

@SamMcGlone I would rather have a clear opinion than be ignorant. Your experience in sales would not correlate to mine in psychiatry. and I stick with what I said

Why? Do you feel the same way about selling sex?

Definition of sexual intercourse: "Involving the penetration of the vagina by the penis."
Regardless of the circumstances that led to the penetration, sex is still sex. Masturbation by definition is the act of achieving sexual gratification without the aid of another person. Prostitution cannot be masturbation because it inherently involves at least two people. I agree that money can never buy love, intimacy and romance but it most definitely can, and does, buy sex.

Porn, movies, advertisements, magazines... also commodify sex. should they be banned as well?

Consensual sex already is free for those who are able to find willing partners. How can that be the answer if it already is the case? Are you suggesting that prostitutes ought to work for free?

Definition of debase: "To lower the value of something or the moral character of someone." The use of a prostitute does not inherently lower the prostitutes moral character. It is a matter of perception. Because society views prostitution as dirty, evil, immoral, etc... the moral character of prostitutes are lowered but that wouldn't be so if people weren't conditioned to perceive them that way.

If I hire a masseuse I do not own her for a few hours. She agreed to provide a service and she is free to renege on that agreement at any time she chooses. The same ought to be true for prostitutes. The only reason it is not is because prostitutes operate outside of the law and therefore have little to no choice in the matter of how their bodies are used. If it were legal, the prostitute would be able to choose what she is willing to do and what she is not. And she could make it stop at any time that she feels uncomfortable without fear of abuse from a pimp.

Yes of course the vast majority of men who agree with prostitution would not agree to prostitute themselves to other men. The vast majority of them are not homosexual so it would be an utterly disgusting experience for them. The fact that most men would turn down an offer of homosexual sex for money does not prove that prostitution is immoral and the fact that you would like to see them do it makes me a bit concerned about your morality.

As for the article you provided, it seems rather sensationalized. I would wager that the horror stories presented in the article are the exception rather than the rule. I don't doubt that some men are violent and treat the women like shit and that some prostitutes work in poor conditions but that doesn't mean that the entire industry is pure evil. The solution is to regulate the industry more tightly, prosecute Johns who step out of line and punish employers who do not provide safe working conditions for their prostitutes.

I think the only way to know for sure if the act of trading sex for money is actually detrimental to a person is through scientific study. Until science confirms that, prostitutes working in safe conditions where they are free to refuse services that they are not comfortable performing without fear of punishment, actually experience detrimental effects, I will continue to believe that there is no harming in selling sex.

I think we have a concensus of sorts as most of us women and men note an exploitive quality to ( legalized) prostitution but we as non- conformists abhor legal intervention into morality as it rarely works. But I see many valid points made by you all

@RoboGraham

If I rent out my body to a man for two hours.

If I find him repulsive, but I need the cash because I'm behind with the rent.

If I have to act out enjoyment, and make fake groaning noises because I want to keep him as a future client.

If I have to develop coping strategies, so I can mentally cut off from what's happening and imagine it is happening to someone else instead - just to get through it.

If I focus intently on the good things in my life.. Children, friends, pets. And that helps me cope, because I know that when it's over with I'll feel empty and used.

But the cash.

If I'm worrying that he might be violent or that he won't pay what he's supposed to - so try to feign pleasure even more.

If I sometimes feel nauseated for a few seconds because I hate what's happening, and my first instinct when he has left is to get in the shower and to scrub all traces of him away. I would ask...

Is that 'sex'?

@Ellatynemouth It's certainly not love making but yes it is sex.

@RoboGraham

No it's not. It's glorified masturbation.

@Ellatynemouth Call it what you will. It doesn't change the fact that prostitution in a legal regulated environment is safer, cleaner, more respectable and less degrading than it is under our current irrational illegal system in which prostitution operates in the black market.

@RoboGraham

Says a man who's never sold his body for cash. Has never been trafficked or threatened by a pimp. All things that have increased in Germany since legalisation.

@Ellatynemouth Incorrect. Those negative aspects of the industry have not increased since legalization. What has increased is reports of those bad things occurring. That's one of the greatest parts about legalization. Prostitutes are not persecuted by the police so they feel safe reporting those things. I assure you, all that bad stuff happens more often in an illegal unregulated system and almost all of it goes unreported because prostitutes know that no good will come of admitting to police that they are breaking the law.

Also, you do not know what has happened to me so don't make assumptions.

One more thing, try googling glorified masturbation. See what comes up.

@RoboGraham

Try reading this link.

I've had my fill of listening to men defend prostitution, and in turn the commodification of women's bodies. You disgust me.

[m.spiegel.de]

Well, paid work debases human dignity. Whether the income is generated by hiring out one's hands, one's brain or any other organs is really irrelevant.

@Ellatynemouth There are plenty of women defending it too. I still don't see how having the option of commodifying ones body is a bad thing. And if attempting to improve living and working conditions of prostitutes by legalizing their profession disgusts you then I am proud to be disgusting.

Also, just because legal prostitution in Germany is not going well does not mean that it can't work. There are many other places where it is legal and functioning safely. The Germany system is just one example out of many.

@Ellatynemouth, @PontifexMarximus So are you saying that self employed prostitutes are not debased?

@RoboGraham any unpleasant task is debasing. Collecting rubbish is as is working in coal mine.

@RoboGraham correct: actors, models etc are commodifying their bodies and so are bricklayers, garbage collectors etc.

@PontifexMarximus So are you saying that people should just stop performing unpleasant tasks?

@sassysapiosexual

I once read an article about a woman, who although being married, felt lonely. With her husband's agreement she hired a man to cuddle her.

There were photos in the article of this man sat on her sofa with his arms around her, cuddling her. She was smiling.

At the end of the day he was an employee.

But what if they could, what if they wanted too? Are you assuming every one who may make that choice is mentally ill? In denial? I am curious. How can we really answer the question of its veracity as a job if the only base line we have is mired in cultural stigma, illegality and questionable practices?

[m.spiegel.de]

[m.spiegel.de]

@Ellatynemouth So has normal work....so the concept is that we need to fix the concept of "work" so that no one is exploited or forced to work. But working for sex at a fundamental level is not an issues. Grind that ax elsewhere.

@MissaDixon

You have no right to silence me.

@Ellatynemouth we need to move 5 Billion (that's billion) people NOW because of global warming...So...it's low on my priority list right now. And I'm confused ( said with zero distrspect and in complete honestly) why there is anything more important than that. Sure We must make sure that sex workers are treated as the same as every other type of worker which is MUCH better than they are now. But saving lives is more important right now. #Priorities.

@SACatWalker it’s not illegal to offer it but it’s illegal to purchase it !! lol

Yeah, it's just as ridiculous.