So lately, I have been discussing my views with my boyfriend because he's one of the very few I can open up to about being an atheist (due to living in the bible belt and having many religious friends). When it comes down to our difference in views, we begin to butt heads a little because he seems to lean towards the Christian view of a god being the cause of the universe and has no logic to support his argument. I will ask, then who created God or what could his origin possibly be? And he will say nothing, just that God was the beginning of everything. Then he will try to backpedal and say "only IF there is a god would this be the case" but it's obvious he believes it or really wants to. He grew up with a dad who was Jehova's witness and a Catholic mother so he was influenced probably a lot more than I was as a child by religion. I know it can be difficult to let those ideas go but what bothers me is that he defends the ideas with no logic. He even defends the bible as being a good guide to life, NEVER HAVING READ IT. I have, as I was forced to attend confirmation classes, and I suggested he do so before we discuss it. He says he won't. I love him but this is so frustrating. Obviously I feel it is easier to have a relationship with someone who is agnostic than a religious person, but does anyone have suggestions for how to have these conversations without letting the differences come between a couple? I really appreciate any advice.
Well, when I read your story, I don't think he is an agnostic. A Christian with doubts for the most. I can't figure out why he calls himself an agnostic. An agnostic, doubts that there is a god and tries to find proof for either option. As long as there is no proof and he chooses anyway for the Christian arguments, he is a Christian, not agnostic.
If he claims that he's agnostic, than you should ask why he thinks he is.
A "weak" atheistic (as opposed to "strong" ) is basically an agnostic. I consider myself both. I have 1) no belief in any god or gods, and 2) I see no evidence either way.
I’m an atheist as a matter of faith. Evidence and proof can’t answer the existence or non existence of a deity capable of creating a geological, DNA, and astronomical record that requires blind faith to believe. So, to that degree, I suppose I’m agnostic as a matter of reason, in that were irrefutable proof of the existence of God to be presented, I wouldn’t reject it out of faith.
That doesn’t mean that I would worship the lying rat bastard who has been deceiving us for so long while permitting horrors and atrocities that could easily have been prevented.
Why on earth don't you chill out and do simple things together , walks in the park etc. and have this as a no go area rather than a ping pong match - this scenario seems to me a recipe for meaningless discussion - which doesnt help your bonding process- Why would it matter? let him be and stop giving yourself a hard time - there must be films you can watch together. Leave this stuff in the closet if you love love him and quit the conversations
You could save time and date a fellow atheist.
How you doin'?
No need to agree on this point. I read recently of an early Muslim sect that held the view many agnostics hold: wait to see when you die what the truth is and leave it at that. The Sunnis and the the Shiites killed them off quickly.
I don't think anyone has to agree with me so long as they don't try to kill me for my views.Since you both know where the other stands, live in peace and harmony with each other with that knowledge and wait till the end of your lives to see what the truth really is. Enjoy each other now.
Hey Talia - count your blessings that he isn't an active christian.
In fact, his um .. open mindedness probably makes him a more desirable person. There IS some good moral guides in the the New Testament "Love your enemies", "Do unto others .." , etc
YOU know it doesn't really matter, that its only your ego that finds it difficult to understand.
Its like snoring, hard to put up with some nights, but its really only a small thing overall.
You have to let it go. If you left him and found a guy who had the same belief system you did.. that guy would have some other glaring / deal breaker type of problem. We tend to always find fault with our partners especially when we aren't completely happy in our lives, but really that fault is within ourselves. I've never personally found a good solution to this problem. Every girl I've ever been with who had opposing religious views the issue just got swept under the rug. I think you're lucky he's "agnostic" but it sounds like he has the makings of a religious person.
If you love each other and have a good relationship then just try to avoid the conversation. My ex was a flaming liberal, I'm a libertarian. We knew we didn't agree, so we just accepted that about each other and moved on. If you can't avoid the conversation then learn to accept your differences. But in order to do that, you need to not buy in to what some here want you to believe; that being atheist automatically makes you superior or smarter and that those who have beliefs are just inherently all around stupid. If you already believe that, just break up now because at some point he'll grow tired of that attitude. Particularly because it's just simply not true.
I think in these sort of conversations what works for me is I reframe some of the terms. God to me can be replaced with "higher power". I can understand people feeling that there must be something greater than ones self, maybe that’s my thought as well, maybe it’s just the chaos theory.
Tell your boyfriend that God is Mother Nature. That we were created by nature. The case is complicated but it all boils down to the actions of the stars and the planets of our solar system. Tell him that at one time long ago Earth was in orbit around a young dwarf star. That the sun was the big white dwarf that took the life of the stat before the sun, Ydra, and during the planet nova, the sun captured Mercury, the Venus/Kingu binary moons, Earth, and Mars from the young dwarf star. During the ordeal, Earth stole Kingu from Venus. That caused Earth to gain satellite-assisted axial rotation. Thus darkness were separated from light. Now, with Earth closer to the heat of the new sun, and her new ability to rotate, she melted her surface ice and warmed her waters thus giving the way for organic life to flourish. We came from there. But we are not alone. We had visitors from planet Heaven. They are the ones who came with the idea of personified supernatural gods. Follow me and you will get to your real origins!
Get up the courage to admit that God is just mythology.
If you want a real relationship you need to get to work on it and hammer out what you will cope with and what you won't - What are no go areas etc. If you just enjoy the hassle stop complaining and live with it till it sends you crazy and one of you leaves.
How old is this boy ? We Atheists are open minded people examining evidence for alleged deities alleged miracles and concluding SO FAR zero reasons exist for belief. ....Our Agnostic pals are being evasive and yielding to McCarthyism against Atheists. ....if the boy is unfriendly to Atheist honesty what is the "arguing" really all about ?
I've met people afraid to really get in depth with the bible because they fear their faith being shaken. Some (can't say all, it's never all) who claim agnostic might still want that feeling of safety, that idea as long as they are holding on to the possibility of existence and just be a good person, treat others nicely and fairly, that maybe they still have that foothold to heaven if it turns out it really does exist. Is that a possibility too? I mean he seems to have access to the JW and the whole catholic guilt exposure to manage.
As to the differences between couples, it comes down to respecting each other and leaving each other room to learn and grow in our own time. We all have experiences that change us and how we think about some things. I think I'd advise just not letting religion and the lack of belief be a focus on the relationship. Focus more on what you actually love about each other and what you spend time doing together over what beliefs or lack there of you each might have.
My wife and I are in a similar situation. Over the years, I have become more outspoken in my atheistic world-view and my wife was raised as a catholic and still has spiritual beliefs in a ‘higher power.’ As a couple, we can agree to disagree on this subject without needing to convince each other of our opinion. she understands my arguments, but she feels more comfortable in a world that ‘cares’ about her, whereas I live in a much more random world. I’m rational, she’s spiritual, and we have learned not to judge each other. She doesn’t proselytize me, and I accept that she needs her spirituality. We are alike in many respects, different in a few others, and we love and accept each other for who we are. Fortunately, we both cannot stomach The Dumpster, so we’re good.
That ain't agnostic. Well, not in my book. Let me put it this way - people often map love and hate as at opposite ends of a spectrum. This is false. Both love and hate require an investment of emotion; the opposite of the love/hate is disassociation. Distance and detachment.
And so to Belief and Athiesm; both embrace a strong view of what is and what isn't. Me, I'm a true agnostic. I don't know, and I really don't care until and unless someone can show me proof one way or the other. Your BF sounds like he has latent religious tendenacies.
How do you address that? Short answer - I don't know. Longer answer - if you think the ice is thick enough beneath your feet, then start pushing him on these issues. It's clearly something which is bothering you, which ergo makes it a real issue. He needs to wake up to that; even if it results in furious agreement to disagree. But based on your description, this guy is freighting some baggage he's not prepared to admit to. And this is not a good thing.
I think you have shifted the burden of proof to you rather than him. Maybe engage with probing questions, watch the athiest experience on YouTube together or by yourself. Simply state how you feel, not how you think he should feel. Given his background the fear of being wrong can be hard to overcome.
I do have a technique for this
"He even defends the bible as being a good guide to life, NEVER HAVING READ IT. I have, as I was forced to attend confirmation classes, and I suggested he do so before we discuss it. He says he won't."
Go to Iron Chariots or a similar page
OR Bible Gateway if your well versed
THEN grab some choice bits of which he is startlingly unaware of
PRINT those as verses
and leave them in the bathroom (in particular)
and anywhere they might find, read and contemplate them.
Story of jeptah (child burnt offering)
Judas Death
In Matthew he is despondent, repentant, throws the money at the priests and goes and hangs himself.
In Acts he is unrepentant, keeps the money, uses it to buy a field and god punishes his wickedness by having him fall down and explode.
Christian Apologetics says both happened
BUT you can't be both unrepentant and repentant, keep the money and buy a field and throw it away
So
ONE is wrong.
or you can watch this with him and see what happens
You might want to have some ground rules when it comes to talking about this subject. Perhaps come to the conclusion that you can agree to disagree. This subject is not worth jeopardizing a good relationship.