Why is the label African Americans used to describe black Americans
I hope this isn't viewed as racist because it's a question, not a negation. I'm asking because it seems inaccurate for anyone who is born in America, especially those with generational roots here in America. I mean if you're willing to say Africa is your roots and it doesn't matter that you have deep generational roots here in America if you say that, aren't we all African Americans?
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29 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.I can’t speak for others but I despise being labeled as Asian-Canadian. I wasn’t born in Canada but I grew up here. I identify myself only as Canadian. To me Canadians describe people of all skin colours, ethnic backgrounds, religions/beliefs or lack thereof, etc etc. I grew up in a multicultural environment and as kids we don’t differentiate each other on the basis of racial or ethic background. Even today, sometimes I’m surprised when someone identifies me as Asian. I forget even that I might be “different” or a minority in certain situations. I’m even offended sometimes when I’m differentiated as being Asian. I’m just plain Canadian. I don’t need qualifiers.
That said, I can’t dictate to others how they should identify themselves. I would go with what is the most acceptable at the time to avoid conflict. If I’m not sure, I would ask. But, I do understand what you’re trying to get at. If we trace our DNA far enough, we all originate from the same place. May be we shouldn’t look at it from the point of view of physical origins or attributes but more general heritage, keeping it in a somewhat vague sense.
graceylou
Level 8
Oct 23, 2018
1
Hmmm, where were your great grand parents born? Whats your heritage? Unless you're Native American...you truly aren't American. Your question isn't racist, it displays your ignorance loudly. Unlike White America,African Americans where brought here enslaved and sold.We took everything from them, heritage, humanity.
Charlene
Level 9
Oct 23, 2018
3
I don't take your criticism lightly or take offense, I respect and welcome it. I understand what happened to the Africans brought to America. It's a stain on the essence of our heritage that we can never erase. That was something that happened to those people that we can never live down no matter how hard we try. Racism is a part of who we are, and it will be apart of who we are for years to come, but my point has nothing to do with any of this. My question is, why do we call black Americans African Americans. We are all Africans if we trace our heritage back far enough. Why do we distinguish between whites and blacks? We are labeling people based on skin pigment Africans. Why don't we call Mexican Americans, Spanish Americans? Or White Americans Euro-Americans? I think it's silly.
@paul1967 Exactly, then I'm a Germanic/Irish/Scandanavian/Iberian/ and a little bit of 4 more AMERICAN.
@paul1967 Racism is Taught..get it Taught..from parent to child..your feel good chant of "We're American" is a lie..To veil your attempt to deny African Americans Any vestige of a personal history is to deny that We Whites destroyed any other contection to their past., and to deflect or soften how we Enslaved another human race for greed. That,sir, is bigotry.
In fact people of Spanish decent do self identify as,i.e, Mexican American or Spanish American.
@Charlene That's not at all what I'm trying to do Charlene. I could be wrong since I'm often wrong, but I want to point to what you're saying and call it White guilt. I truly hope this doesn't make you hate me because I value you a lot. I just think you're wrong here and I hope you will take a minute and think about this, and if I'm wrong I'll listen and change my views and anyone else reading this if I'm wrong, chime in. I don't mind being corrected.
You said, "We Whites destroyed any other connection to their past." I did nothing of the sort nor did you. Yes, white people did these terrible things, but black people did this too. White slave traders came to Africa on boats and traded goods with black tribes for captured blacks, and this practice still exists today, but instead of servants, they're used in sex trafficking. I'm in no way justifying what white slave owners did to the Africans brought over to America. It's unforgivable and evil beyond measure, but keep the blame where it belongs, and that's with the people who did the crimes. Since the problem is racism lets deal with that problem, and we can still acknowledge the atrocities this country was party to. The fact that I'm a white American doesn't in any way mean I'm guilty for the slave trade and I don't owe for that crime. I give my respect to all people because I value them as people.
@paul1967 Because descendants of slaves could not point to which country they were from; all they had was the continent of Africa thus African American became something they used in order to feel some ancestral ties. Or pride. Or culture. Or whatever they wished while also being American.
I don't get why this is so hard to understand. People that cannot trace their ancestry further back than who owned their grandparents were searching for that something that the most of the rest of us have by default: we know where we came from.
With the advent of DNA, and so many black people from island nations, the term is being used less than it used to be but is someone identifies as African American, I don't have an issue with it.
I personally use the word black as a descriptor because I live in an area with a large island population and yeah they do not want to be known as African since they're not but again it is not my place as a white person to judge how a person of color self identifies.
@paul1967 White America, whether or we were born after or your immigrant grand parents arrived after the Civil War, are part and parcel to blame for that despicable act and All subsequent acts of Racism.To claim as you self righteously do, that You or family, had nothing to with it is to deny that Racism. We Whites supported it through a sense of entitlement that contiues to This day.It is pernicious and now blatantly obvious to anyone that is cognizant of it. Which you've, obviously, chosen to ignore within your self.You expose it by your responces.
@Charlene I want this to be a useful dialogue between us, and I hope you will allow me to question your position. I hope that you won't interpret my comments as an attack on you.
I am a racist, you are a racist, Dr. Martin Luether King was a racist, Obama is a racist, but the difference between us and the KKK or Donald Trump is that we are aware of the harm this causes and we strive to overcome this negative attribute.
I am not responsible for the acts of my ancestors. I am accountable for my behavior today and my past. I don't have an issue with you identifying as a female, and it's easy for me to accept that you are in fact a female because I questioned it at one time and I listened and learned. I don't have a problem acknowledging label people place on themselves, and I will gladly adopt that label when I refer to them. I will also feel free to ask questions when I have them because that is who I am and that is how I learn. I've never been a yes man. I don't accept things just because I hear people talk about it with authority.
If you can point to how I'm responsible for the acts of my ancestors, I will listen and learn
Two reasons:
- Most people who have knowledge of their heritage take pride in it. They bring aspects of that culture with them, regardless of how far back it goes. Those that don't have knowledge either endeavor to learn (hence the popularity of Ancestry, 23 and Me, etc...) or just make it up (ie they guess based on the information available to them) and attempt to fill in the cultural details.
- These labels are not created in a vacuum. Language is a living thing (figuratively) that both changes with and itself changes the coexistent culture. It is a thing that has consequences. Labels like "negroid," "mongoloid," etc... (I'm talking to you @walklightly ) are dehumanizing and dehumanizing language is one of the easiest and most important pathways on the road toward otherizing and condoning, sanctioning, and encouraging racial-, ethnic-, and gender-based violence. There's a reason those labels have fallen out of favor, and a further reason that you aren't very likely to come across the word "caucazoid" at all.
Labels like Aryan have become loaded with supremacist connotations (that label in particular is a pretty obviously awful example to use in the anti-political correctness argument by the way).
Both kinds of labels also have a tendency, despite their science-y sounding nature, to be inaccurate, but that's almost beside the point.
As an aside, political correctness is a term that tends to be bandied by those in a position of societal privilege, particularly the privilege of not being the victims of "saying it like it is" politics (I use that term with much derision because it really means saying it how you need to in order to maintain a status quo - ironic, given the name, but I digress). If you replace "PC" with the disambiguated term, RESPECT, the anti-PC argument becomes deflated rather quickly.
ghettophilosopher
Level 7
Oct 24, 2018
5
Thank you
I'll call anyone whatever they want me to call them. I'm not losing any sleep over this.
billjcaudle
Level 1
Oct 24, 2018
4
As we should.
I let anyone identify and/or label themself however they like, and keep my mouth shut and eyes, ears, mind, and heart open about it. What's to lose?
stinkeye_a
Level 8
Oct 23, 2018
3
I think you're 100% spot on and I hope people don't think I'm trying to be disrespectful. It's a question and I asked in hopes that this community could answer it. I feel like everyone has great points and so far I've found value in everyone's response.
I understand your question in the abstract, that there's no great reason for divisive labels, but ethnicity does exist, and the black community and its experience in America has a different, specific set of circumstances that sometimes must be addressed apart from the ideal of just generally being an American.
The acceptable term for people of color has changed over the years and largely depends on what a person of any demographic wants to call themselves in agregate. At one point in our history the polite term was colored people. Then black, then I believe in an effort to get past the label of color, many began to prefer african american. I know some black people who probably always thought it was a bullshit term too and stuck with black. Some prefer to describe their heritage and characteristics as Nubian, and now in the context of most conversations, people of color is the most relevant and inclusive term to describe the minority experience of non-white cultures collectively.
You're right, in that there's really not many good reasons to single any demographic out to speak of them by color, but we can't pretend that everything is PC enough that pigmentation is wholly irrelevant to all conversations. Every cultural identity has a right to maintain pride in its heritage and dictate the terms by which they are identified, just as every member of a multicultural country has the right to blend into the cumulative cultural identity of being an American and work towards loosening the hangups of our differences.
The point is not to look past and ignore all our differences any more than it is to augment and call attention to them. Id like to think we can celebrate and observe cultural differences to a positive extent while not allowing them to be used divisively. The thing about living in the new world is it's still relatively young. Sometimes the history behind it is relevant, and sometimes it's not. Ideally one day it won't be relevant at all, but while it still is, there's no point in being afraid to talk about it.
Wurlitzer
Level 8
Oct 23, 2018
2
Very well worded and you make a valid point.
Smokey Robinson spoke eloquently about this:
Keith_J
Level 6
Oct 25, 2018
3
Thank you. This really helps and it's an amazing video
this is brilliant. he put my reasoning into poetry. i think i'm black from the core ?
I've a black friend who's from Toronto. I love the looks he gets when he tells people he's not African American.
beerkrump
Level 6
Oct 24, 2018
3
What label does he prefer?
If one goes back far enough, yes, we are all African Americans. More recently, my dad's side came to America from Ireland back in the 19th century, and my mom's side came from mixed English-French blood. They arrived in the "New World" about 300 years ago. Maybe we should be referred to as "European American". Personally, I think we would all be better off if we quit focusing on and emphasizing what makes us different, and started ignoring extremely superficial traits like the amount of pigmentation in our skin. After all, there is more intraracial genetic variation than there is interracial. And from a scientific perspective, race is merely a social-political construct which carries little to no biological meaning at all.
Piratefish
Level 7
Oct 24, 2018
3
Easy for a white person to say--we don't have much at stake here. The average person does not think like that & those are the people that African Americans & others have to deal with in the real world. Of course you are right, but scientific facts don't get much respect these days, do they? It's a sad time.
@Carin The overwhelming majority of people are not racist. Don't believe it? Make a racist comment and watch how fast you get your ass reamed. Racists make up a very small portion of the population, and are a dying breed. The news, however, would have you believing otherwise. But the news hasn't been about reporting factual, relevant stories since, well, since .... forever.
@Piratefish I agree with your assessment of the media but in the last couple of years I have discovered that there are MORE racists than I previously had been aware of.
In liberal and'or atheist forums, there are fewer racists but out there in the world, they are alive and well
@Lucy_Fehr I still believe they are a small minority. When one stops and looks around, most people are decent human beings. I think we pay far too much attention to the racists and other assorted fringe assholes than we should. We're always going to have ignorant people among us, but why give them the spotlight so much?
@Piratefish It is definitely not that small. The election of trump brought them out of the closet.
@Sticks48 The media love to blow things out of all proportion. True racists are less than 1 out of 100. Probably much less, depending on where you're at in the country. And most of them are over 60. A dying breed.
But, yeah, let's continue to give them all of our attention. It's so healthy that way.
@Piratefish Perhaps location is a factor; I live in a very red county in Florida. Like fucking redneck central here.
I can't tell you how many people say racist shit to me assuming that I am one of them. Being in retail makes me a somewhat captive audience but still I am amazed at how little effort they make to keep their voice down or hide it.
A couple of weeks ago a Jamaican employee was asked if she had her papers but the girl standing nearby from United Kingdom wasn't
People bitch about spanish speakers several times a day and are convinced that the reason we don't carry their favorite foods from 1912 is because we have to make room for mexican and island food
A few days ago a customer was talking about a high school program her son is graduating from that only takes 100 students per year she leaned in to tell me that they don't have black kids there.
The above examples are just from the last couple of weeks said only to me- multiply that by 150 employees. They ARE emboldened.
I have a very young part time assistant that is a light skinned latina and she pretends she doesn't know spanish to avoid being hassled. She is also a lesbian which she does not hide but feels like she has to pass as white to avoid catching shit?
As an aside; that exclusive school I mentioned sent my grandson an invitation to tour tthe school with an eye to admission. He is mixed but is very dark and identifies as black
I have a friend from Haiti who hates it. He says he is not African American. He is just American. Why do we have to qualify everything? When I was younger it was always dumb blonde girl. I am not dumb but I had more than one person say it right in front of me. I even had someone say it once to me at a job interview. I have often felt I missed out on opportunities because someone had pre-judged me based on my appearance.
confidentrealm
Level 7
Oct 23, 2018
1
@PalacinkyPDX You have to admit it is ridiculous
LOTS of GREAT comments about this. I've learned a lot from all your words. Treat all people with respect and if you're feeling angry about how someone wants to be addressed the issue is with you. Anger solves nothing. Seek first to understand.
Peace, man
billjcaudle
Level 1
Oct 26, 2018
2
Doesn't it seem kind of strange, if not ridiculous & arrogant, to be a bunch of white people discussing what African Americans should or should not be called & speculating about their reasons for wanting to choose how they are referred to? We have zero first hand experience & never will. Many of us who are posting have no back ground information or particular knowledge of the topic yet feel our opinions are significant. This is my last post on the subject.
Meanwhile I see very few of our African American members bothering to join this discussion....& I think I can see why.
Carin
Level 8
Oct 26, 2018
2
No, I absolutely do not. I think it's of great value. The question I posed was done as respectfully as I could, and I don't think there's any harm in asking questions. I think the damage comes from not asking out of anxiety, doubt, or fear. I learned a lot about how people view this topic. @ghettophilosopher shared two great videos, and if you haven't watched the MLK video, I can tell you that speech is one I have never heard and it moved me to my core. GP also gave an articulate description of how people value their heritage, and he addressed how labels evolve. I learned about the enormous impact of labels and why dehumanizing language leads to "condoning, sanctioning, and encouraging racial-, ethnic-, and gender-based violence." (see: Donald Trump) It was an impactful lesson, and I don't think I thanked him, but I will now. Thank you ghettophilosopher for that information it was incredible and moving. @Keith_J showed me a video, "A Black America by Smokey Robinson" where Mr. Robinson used poetry about being united and allowing yourself the freedom to recognize that you are an American and the pride to be an American doesn't make you blind to the inequality that exists. He spoke about how all humans originated from Africa and that we are all shades of the same color. The sooner we all understand that the quicker racism will be a thing of the past. The lessons didn't end there everyone gave me something to think about most notably @DonCoryon @Lucy_Fehr @PalacinkyPDX @genessa @Fernapple @walklightly @Tompain1, and you had a lot to say that I found useful. I appreciate everyone who took the time out of their day and gave me an opportunity to look at what they had to say. Thank you all for what you offered me.
people will use labels no matter what. we use them for others and for ourselves. labels can be intentionally or unintentionally offensive by virtue of categorizing people by attributes that are considered (by some) negative, or that have in the past been considered negative, or that are irrelevant to a person's value as a human being. if a group of people want to identify themselves and be identified by their relatively recent origins (a couple hundred years is recent) rather than by their superficial resemblance to one another in terms of skin tone, why not? but not all black people want to be called something other than black; black is short and snappy and using it as mere description is different from using it to imply that black is bad in some way. it's no more or less accurate (since i have never seen a black person who is literally black) than african american. i don't go around calling myself a ukrainian american and my folks came from the ukraine a lot more recently than most black americans came from africa. but that's my choice; i get to choose for myself. i don't get to choose for others. exception: messianists. i get to say they're not jewish even when they say they're jews for jesus. that's not my opinion; that's a definitional thing. other than that... be who you want to be is what i say!
g
genessa
Level 8
Oct 25, 2018
2
I have no idea who came up with that term, or why.
I've always thought it was dumb.
KKGator
Level 9
Oct 24, 2018
2
@OwlInASack Why do I need to confront myself?
You are assuming things you do not have any way of knowing.
Further, I detest labels. If someone wants to label themselves as anything, fine, have at it. I am not required to accept the labels anyone might try to put on me, and I certainly don't have to accept the labels anyone else wants to put on themselves or others.
My point was that I think calling people African-Americans, Polish-Americans, Mexican-Americans, Italian-Americans, etc, is what is dumb.
Just Americans would suffice.
In addition, I don't give a flying rat's ass about culture, heritage, or any of that stuff. It doesn't matter to me. I think they are just more mechanisms that divide people. Just like religion. I do not respect any religion, just like I don't respect culture or heritage. I tolerate them because that is required by law.
Don't assume I haven't given any of this serious thought. You would be very wrong. I hold the positions I do because I HAVE thought about all of it. Long and hard.
@OwlInASack You are free to make your assumptions. Your last paragraph sums up your feelings pretty well. Enjoy your day.
Maybe you wouldn't think the term was dumb if you did know who came up with it & why--without any information I don't understand how you can judge if it's dumb or not. I am informed & would still not consider it my place to decide if what they want to be called is dumb or not.
@Carin Whatthefuckever! Honestly, I do not care. I'm not going to be all politically correct over anything for anyone. I explained why I think it's dumb. It's not racist. It's just as stupid to say Italian-Americans, or European-Americans. It's just another distinction meant to divide us all. It has nothing to do with race. If you don't like how I feel about it, or anything else, I do not give a flying rat's ass.
@OwlInASack And how I may, or may not, feel about anything matters to you because... ?
@KKGator, i am so with you on the bullshittery of ethnic or hereditary labels! the powerful global elite sure knows how to divide & conquer. why play into their hands? i love or loathe a person by their very individual heart & mind, not by their generic "origin".
@walklightly Thank you!!!! Others have worked entirely too hard to miss the point, but you clearly get it. I'm not surprised either. You have always demonstrated your ability to grasp exactly what I mean. Again, thank you.
@KKGator, oh i'm getting all ? mushy now, thank you so much!
@walklightly, @KKGator l had to block that asshat Owlin. I agree with you. He is a pompous dick. I think that is 81 for me. I may hit the century mark by the new year.
My grandparents came from Poland Ukraine area when Imperial Russia was all the rage and they came to the Cleveland area. My parents were both born in Cleveland I was born in Cleveland. Guess that now makes me a full blooded American. But then again if you go by my DNA. 50000 years ago they came from Africa. (Or was it Altair four)
oldFloyd
Level 8
Oct 24, 2018
2
New words for many things come along all the time, they start as newly fashionable with those who consider themselves “elete” , spread to become mainstream, and last are adopted by those who use them negatively. They then become tainted, go out of fashion and are forgotten only to be readopted as polite again. The terms for the races are perfect examples since just about every one has gone through the full cycle sometimes twice. It was I think one of the few things G. Orwell got wrong, (Nineteen Eighty Four), words can not change society, because it is society which changes infinitely malleable words without limit all the time.
Fernapple
Level 9
Oct 24, 2018
2
the madness of political correctness has won the war of good behavior. considering that there are no distinguishable races within humankind - not any more at least (we're all mongrels somehow) - the attempt at not offending anyone with observations like "dark-skinned", "fair-skinned", "negroid", "aryan" is such a dishonest & awkward business. another method to divide the masses.
walklightly
Level 8
Oct 24, 2018
2
You nailed my larger point because dividing people is precisely what it does, and I'm not saying get rid of all labels because doing that makes it difficult to communicate with one another.
@paul1967, we need descriptions for persons & things, but these don't have to be weighed on a judgmental scale. the fact that snow is white & nights are more black than anything else doesn't mean that one or the other is better.
when i lived in a share apartment in hamburg in the 70s there was a young man from eritrea, & he was indeed quite black. he used to refer to himself as nigger, & i thought that was a brilliant way of diffusing the entire issue.
@walklightly I overhear it all the time, on playgrounds and subways, one can hear and see people greeting others as nigger (or niggah), not in hostility, but in friendship. It has become a word that is tolerable when used by the black community and repudiated in white society. I resist using it because I view it as a social contract. I say resist not because I find it difficult but because I will use it when it's being used appropriately to discuss the subject.
@OwlInASack, genetically we are all mongrels - as i stated before.
@OwlInASack, & an at best euphemistic term such as "african american" makes all the injustice, inequality & hatred go away how?
@OwlInASack, re distraction please read the op.
Why label at all? Peel away the skin and shed the hair... all look the same... muscle, bone...
HeyHiHullo
Level 7
Oct 24, 2018
1
Roots are always a part of one's dentity. Irish American, Italian American, Jewish American, Spanish American, we all rightly acknowledge our ancestry, hopefully with pride. African Americans have endured some tough sledding to live in america and still do. And they have born so much adversity and maltreatment with extrordinary courage. As a group I must acknowledge that I was late in appreciating them, I think because I was not allowed to see them in my tainted upbringing as they are. I say they get to call themselves whatever they choose. They are my brothers and sisters without reservation.
Tompain1
Level 7
Oct 24, 2018
1
I think you make a valid point, people get to choose the labels they put on themselves, and it's appropriate to respect that, and I do and I always will. I wonder why African when that description isn't accurate for all black skinned people. I don't understand why that label.
I have never quite understood this either. My parents immigrated from England to Canada in 1967. Always referred to themselves as Canadians thereafter. In Canada the only group that seems to do this is are the French-Canadians.
Green_eyes
Level 8
Oct 23, 2018
2
I have heard people calling themselves Anglo-Indians ...
PontifexMarximus
Level 8
Oct 28, 2018
1
"The category of 'native' was large, but there was no general definition of the term. In a Nyasaland court case of 1929, the judge opined that, "A native means a native of Africa who is not of European or Asiatic race or origin; all others are non-natives. A person's race or origin does not depend on where he or she is born. Race depends on the blood in one's veins ..." Unlike Europeans of British origin, Nyasaland natives did not hold British citizenship under British nationality law, but had the lesser status of British protected person.The term 'native' was used in all colonial censuses up to and including 1945, but by the 1950s the term was regarded as offensive."
The thinking is still, in many mind the same. I recently had a discussion about the term "ABC ...Australian Born Chinese ... nobody has ever called my daughters: ABC as in Australian Born Caucasian.
PontifexMarximus
Level 8
Oct 28, 2018
1
Interesting observation; we do say Chinese- and Japanese American which is just as odd. I have no idea why these specific groups are singled out. You are correct that all human roots come from Africa -- until they find older skeletons somewhere else (not saying there are, just that science has the ability to redefine itself when it is needed).
xyz123
Level 7
Oct 24, 2018
1
Whites called them Orientals & many of them didn't like it so they picked a name they thought was better.
& you know the reasons whites had for singling them out were often not very nice.
@Carin People are Asian. Objects are Oriental. So only ignorant fools called them Orientals. And let's be accurate: SOME white people referred to them in such terms. Many whites are neither racist nor prejudice.
@Piratefish I do agree. But the ignorant fools murdered some of them.
It is a bit strange. My heritage is so mixed just call me a Continental American, much more convenient than German, Scotch, Slovene and who knows what American. One never hears Egyptian American or Moroccan American to describe our dark skinned brothers. We all are descended from Africa. If we are born here lets just be called United Staties. After all an American could be north, south, central or native and apparently that is not enough to be considered an American in some cases. I choose to keep it simple. If I don't know ones name I'll label that person a fellow human or a pain in the ass and leave it at that.
MuniJohn
Level 5
Oct 24, 2018
1
I agree.
That may be why many do not the like the label and have gone back to other monikers, e.g. blacks, negros, etc.
t1nick
Level 8
Oct 23, 2018
1
@creative51 recently Bacari Sellers and other black academicians and pundits have taken to using that word in referring to themselves. It may have a limited scope. So I will take back my comment and say it is anecdotal and not necessarily in common usage.
@t1nick, @creative51 This is why I love this community.
Enjoy being online again!
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