Corporations receive about $100 billion in corporate welfare each year. I doubt that helps anyone but the rich. The U.S. spends about $212 billion a year on social programs that actually assist those in need. Sure, a small percentage of the poor take advantage of this but it helps many millions of people.

Where do you get your information? That sounds soo... very... Fox News. The percentage of people who manage to exploit welfare is probably less than 1%. It is the conservatives who want to take help away from the other 99% in order not to enable the 1%. Be careful not to let conservatives define your world view.

But missing the point: that some people are being paid more than the national average wage, and not even paying tax on it, for doing sweet fuck all apart from raising their own kids.

The percentages aren't relevant when you're working and can barely afford food, and you see someone who retired the day they left school buying flatscreen TV's and the latest games consoles for each of their children.

And this does happen. In the UK system, at least.

@NicoleCadmium
It seems like people want to scrap the whole system because some are taking advantage of it. People are too preoccupied with those few scamming the system that they fail to see the bigger picture. Throw the baby out with the bathwater scenario. For all if human history there have been scammers and there will be no ending it. Most if the welfare fraud in the US is by businesses receiving the food stamps and such from people on welfare. Not sure how it is in the UK.
It's already been said that corporate welfare is way more than individual welfare and add in the defense budget for endless wars and expensive weapon systems that aren't truly needed, then you find we can have nice things.

@dokala Utter nonsense. There may well be 'people like that', but they are not 'people like me.'

I respect and am happy to contribute into a welfare system for people who need it to maintain an acceptable quality of life. One that I might need myself someday, should my circumstances change. The fact that it doesn't stretch to keep homeless people off the streets, while some welfare claimants have a flatscreen television and latest generation games console for each of their 8 children, is what sticks in my throat. The fact that I'll probably be working into my 70s to pay benefits to perfectly able people who chose to retire at 16, also sticks in my throat.

The welfare system should provide people with the basic requirements for life: food, water, shelter, clothing, heating, electricity, basic entertainment facilities (a television.) But I should not be working to pay for someone who doesn't work to have a better quality of life than I do. And yet I know of cases where people are playing the system and doing exactly that.

Of course we lose a lot more revenue to corporate tax evasion, but it's a separate issue. Even if they are not giving back what they should be, these corporations are contributing to the economy, at the very least by employing people to work for them. What contribution has someone who's sat scratching their nuts while watching Jeremy Kyle every day ever made?

Both situations need to be addressed. I've never been one for ignoring a lesser problem just because there are bigger ones out there. We don't ignore theft and fraud simply because rape and murder are more serious, do we?

@NicoleCadmium ever wonder why they have flat screen TVs and other items of perceived value? They probably stole them or they have a side hustle that involves illict goods. I hear people say that "those people will simply starve if they don't get a job." Not true. People will turn to crime at various levels to get what they need and even thrive. Crime does pay or else people wouldn't do it. There's no stopping it, but it can be minimized.
You are caught up in someone having something over on you and they don't work for it. Their existence sucks. Ever see how people live who you think are getting one over on you? It ain't pretty. They deal in stolen items, drugs, or whatever they can to survive and get. They have no concept of priorities because they are oblivious and live in the here and now. Again, their existence sucks. Why areiyou more pissed about the golden parachutes executives get for failing, causing scandals, or crashing the global economy? I still haven't received from the bill I had to pay for losing money on my place after the 2008 crash, but all those bankster assholes are seeing record profits and salaries while paying next to nothing in taxes. If I happen to get a bonus at my job, it's taxed at 40% on the low end. Those corporate assholes have loopholes that give them hundreds of thousands or millions with zero or next to nothing in taxes. But you are focused on the welfare types getting a stupid TV, car, or some other meaningless item that truly isn't all that expensive in the first place. Sounds reasonable.

@dokala I'm no the least bit fixated with this. Someone asked a question here "Liberals: what is your most conservative view?" And I answered honestly. This issue doesn't consume my every waking moment. Far from it. I don't even think about it daily. Only when the subject comes up, or I see an example of it happening.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that these people are criminals in the conventional sense. There's a degree of benefit fraud involved in some cases (I'll give you an example below) but others just manage to get more money than they need out of the system somehow. I certainly don't believe every flat screen television was bought 'knock off' from 'some bloke in the pub.'

One of my ex's friends had a very tidy arrangement where she and her boyfriend lived together, but not officially. She was a stay at home mum, and got all of her living costs covered by welfare. He was out earning, and apart from covering the cost of his own food, they had no bills to pay out of it. It was purely spending money.

I used to know a guy who claimed he received £30K per year from the government in various benefits, just to stay at home and raise his children. I'm not sure how he managed to claim that figure, but I don't see any reason for him to lie. This was a few years ago, when the national average wage was probably closer to the £20K mark. More like 15K after tax and National Insurance contributions (none of which the other guy had to pay out of his 30K handout.)

So.. your definition of a liberal includes not liking the Constitution?

I feel like I need to add this to half of these comments. Don't let conservatives define your world view.

It is the conservative judges who have been ruling against the Constitution time and time again to serve the conservative mindset (I really can't use the word "values" as there is no value to much of what they want for the people in the country). Citizens United for instance. Do you think the framers of the Constitution wanted corporations to buy elections? Or to repeatedly prioritize corporations over people in every lawsuit they can get their mostly corrupt hands on?

I agree. Between government and religion.

You do know those are both conservative views, right?

There was a time when conservatives wanted to marry, and liberals just wanted to live together. Now, liberals want to get married and conservative want to live together. What up man!

@PalacinkyPDX no. It's that I don't have the nerve. I hold people who can do this in the highest regard. I get too tense. I've always been a goody-goody.

True Conservative: I do a lot of community service because I believe in helping others.

True Liberal: I threaten to kidnap people at gun point unless they give me their money so I can give it to someone else in order to claim the moral high ground.

@jayneonacobb I assume sarcasm unless you drank the Kool-aid

Yes, it's satire. I don't think our system works in the slightest. I do think forcing people to pay for social programs and corporate expenses is wrong. I also don't think most people do enough community service. Both of those are what is happening right now, on both sides of the coin.