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When you discuss or argue about a topic, it could be anything, how important is it to you to "win" or "prove" your point?

It depends on the topic, but there are times, I want to be the victor in an argument or discussion. How important is that to you. Are you able to pick and choose your battles? or should we look at it differently (see meme)?

BeeHappy 9 Mar 8

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9

The answer to that question is another question: "How much have I had to drink?"

😉

Ha!

5

Hmmm...to me, discussing and arguing are different. I used to argue A LOT. I wanted to blow off steam and I wanted to WIN. Isn't that arguing? It's a verbal wrestling match.
Discussion is critical to me, increasingly critical, as I age. I think I use others' thoughts as a resource for honing my own, with people I care deeply about so that I know they're thinking things through and with worthwhile people as a means of engaging.
Arguing is LESS critical to me as I age. Now I voice my opinion (or not) and then step back without engagement.
These days, I seem to discuss with people who are worthwhile to me. And, I take the arguing (increasingly avoidant) stance with people who are worth LESS to me. Winning, not so important over 50. Proving my point can be critical when talking with my son or his fiance, other 20 somethings I care about.

Awesome POV!

I concur. And over 50 is the best place to be!

@Ktcyan I'd rather be under !

5

I argue to get at the truth. It a real joy to encounter an opponent that has the skeptical chops to bring a well-evidenced argument.

If I am to be more correct tomorrow, I must acknowledge when I lose today. Embarrassing or not, that is how it works.

Everything should be a learning experience!

Yes. Being willing to accept that you may and frequently will be wrong is the first step to learning anything IMO

As I was growing up, the dinner table was used as our debate or philosophical time. You had all your facts correct, or the others would drag you down. The rules were: you had to have the corresponding right evidence, no swearing, and no yelling.

You had to admit you were wrong if so. It was empowering to have my parents admit they were wrong to me such as with the Kent State shootings. It was just crazy to realize this wasn't the norm outside of our home.

You had some awesome parents, Angelface.

@Angelface we talk of the racism of the states and did you know there was a shooting at jacksonville university where 3 black kids got shot dead in the same year as kent . no? no neither did i until recently. it was never brought up.! on a side note chrissie hyde from the pretenders was at kent state on campus when all that happened

@markdevenish I'm White but have friends who tell me about different viewpoints other than the straight white male. Did you know that Black men are nearly three times as likely to be killed by legal intervention than white men, according to the study, which was published in the American Journal of Public Health on Tuesday. American Indians or Alaska Natives also are nearly three times as likely and Hispanic men are nearly twice as likely, the study suggests.

Yet many blame nonwhites for being agitators and somehow not appreciative of everything we've "given" them.

[cnn.com]

I include the next link not to agree or disagree with its content but to provide another voice.

[theroot.com]

5

I usually defend my point until such a time as I feel I am in danger of learning something or growing as a person and then make a joke and walk away.

You're hopeless! 🙂

@BeeHappy am not😛

See what I mean? Are too!! 😉

@BeeHappy Forget it, he just left!

4

I don't argue about unimportant topics. 😉

JimG Level 8 Mar 8, 2018

Don't sweat on the small stuff.

4

It doesn't matter. I declare myself the winner no matter what.

Ha!

4

I generally have one of two motives. I either really want to foster understanding for myself and the other party or I'm just entertaining myself.

heh heh... some call it trolling but I do love to put out comments that, in their nature, invite comment.
In the hills of Vermont the cows always go the same way around the hill when they graze. Its been that way forever and now the cows have adapted and their up-hill (left) legs are shorter than their downhill legs.

@Dick_Martin well not to say that's a bunch of bull,but....😉

4

In my idle moments I sometimes daydream of a perfect sandwich, two slices of thick wholegrain bread with thin coats of butter and mayonaise topped with thick slices of lean roast beef. Interpersed with those slices is just enough brown mustard with horseradish and a final lettuce topping. Added is a large juicy kosher dill. It sounds so good!

However when I make such a sandwich it never quite measures up to my ideal. It is the same with arguments, discussions or debates. You look forward to it, try to anticpate and be prepared for what comes and invaribly you are disappointed. Either the other side scoffs at anything outside of their viewpoint and opinion or they vebally attack you.

Often they will rely on sketchy information, misdirected quotes or quote an odd & strange source as total fact. People or trolls who use religion, political or that off the wall fringe source as "gospel" and those who act as know it alls in a subject they're woefully ignorant of, just seem to be the norm nowadays.

Why is the art of debate, discussion and argument reduced to who can outshout the other?

Sign of the times, unfortunately!

Good point of view. Thanks!

But now I'm hungry! 🙂

4

To win or prove your point with someone you don't know and highly unlikely to meet is an exercise in futility!

balou Level 8 Mar 8, 2018

Yeah, but their ability to argue properly, or not, is useful to know.

If they are moved by evidence and refrain from endless fallacies, it could be the start of a relationship.

disagree . Teach teach teach

4

I only "argue" when I know that the othr party is wrong. Otherwise I usually listen to their position and decide if the discussion is worthwhile.

3

Im willing to be wrong hence discussing things

2

I used to think winning was important. Not anymore.

I don't think I'm as bad as I use to be, but man, the competitive side of me wants to win! Like I said I don't think I'm as much that way today, but it's still there a bit.

2

Depends on my level of knowledge on the subject matter.

Sometimes, before thinking, I open my big fat mouth and then.... insert foot! LOL

@BeeHappy yep I was known as tactless

1

Some people don't care about facts or logic. Their minds have been conditioned to a belief, and arguing with them will not make any difference. Certain people I don't even start discussing anything with them. Flat earthers for one and I have some in my family.

1
1

I tend not to argue past a certain point. I like a discussion, I like to hear others points, and I like them to hear mine. That is the end of it for me, if they or I are not convinced, I levae it be.

1

I do not care who wins, as long as we both listen, learn, and apologize, if needed.

1

There is rarely a reason to win an argument, but there is always reason to learn/teach through argument.

1

Neither if in a debate or discussion and I get an epiphany or learn something that is what I walk away with. Although if someone is wrong depending upon the person I will either walk away and never let on that I have better facts. If I feel friendly toward the person I will give settle hints to help them self correct.

1

very important but I will concede occasionally as I do use conjecture

1

It depends on who I'm talking to. Sometimes I just like to fuck with people. It is a very affordable hobby. 🙂

It sounds to me like you, @Dick_Martin, and @Hominid would get along great!

1

Winning am argument is a rare event for anybody , even if you prove beyond doubt your point is correct most people never cede and they just hate ya

that's where the phones can kill ya

1

To me, it is important to "win" an argument only if (1) the other is obnoxious in his or her behavior, and.or (2) I view his or her point of view as downright mmoral and dangerous.

1

Should be, but it is nice to "win". I'm trying a more "Street Epistemology" approach to try & curb that tendency.

1

Confession time: I love arguing as an entertainment. Wanna argue about Flat Earth? I'm your guy. Pick a side and away we go. What about teaching children manners? OK. Lets have at it. Are women's orgasms real or just done to get it over with? Is Sasquatch real? The Oxford comma? A personal favorite.

So, the argumentative type, huh Dick? 🙂

You and I would get along like fire and wind. Two cranky old fucks fixing the world.

I use commas instinctively, and it turns out I'm right according to grammar rules most of the time. To me, it's when you naturally dip your voice in a sentence... seems to work well.

@Hominid my professor once told me that by my use of commas, he knew when I was taking a breath.

@BeeHappy Absolutely! Then a laugh, some wine, and do it again.

@Hominid You'll have to be the fire.... I am mostly wind, from one end or the other. 😉

@Hominid Curmudgeonly bastards?

oh you must be a lawyer

@markdevenish , lol... How dare you, you insolent ruffian!

@FrayedBear Are you talking about Hominid and me?

@markdevenish Isn't that an oxymoron? Lawyers lie, prevaricate and put forward excuses as to why their client should not be gaoled, deprived of obscene unfair status ... do they argue or misrepresent - law, facts, evidence?

@Dick_Martin If the cap fits wear it is my stance. Never force anything - you end up with square pegs in round holes and vice versa.

@FrayedBear I have always felt badly for those with square pegs. Thankfully mine is round.

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