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Emotionally-stunted men

The problem goes beyond emotionally stunted men and the burden they place on women.

I was the live-in therapist for my husband, helping Terry process his feelings about problems with male friends, irritating board members, men at work, racism he experienced (Terry is Latino), etc.

Don't get me wrong. Terry has many good qualities and is a wonderful father.

A year after we were married, Terry was rejected by longtime male friends when he protested their sneaking illegal drugs across the Canadian border with him in the car. He was furious.

"I could have lost my teacher's license!" Terry fumed. At 35, Terry had to make new friends. This was hard for him as an introvert. He experienced a lot of grief.

Terry thinks out loud. He talks nonstop (verbal diarrhea, I thought wryly). I am good at listening and succinctly clarifying the main issues.

"Exactly!" Terry enthused when, with one sentence, I summarized 20 minutes of rambling. "I feel much better," he said afterward. Everyone want to feel heard.

To tell you the truth, I got intellectually bored with Terry talking in circles, saying the same thing in different ways. "Get to the point," I though.

Since our divorce 20 years ago, Terry has been seeing a therapist. Unfortunately, his over-talking has gotten worse with age.

Dating has been a parade of emotionally-constipated men. A shining exception is a mental health therapist, Bruce, who is wise and funny. Bruce and I are friends; he moved to Dallas.

Through online dating, I met over 100 men in the past ten years. I screen them with a phone call first. Most men do good phone. I have reached the point where I'm surprised when a man looks like his photos.

With 90% percent of the men, I declined a second date. Meeting different men has been shocking, hilarious, interesting and fun. I learn from everyone I meet.

Happily, the medical doctor I am dating is emotionally mature. Bill is kind, patient, self-reflective, highly intelligent, fit, funny and fun.

Your thoughts?

[slate.com]

LiterateHiker 9 May 12
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40 comments

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1

Perhaps your men are giving you their best. Not as good as your best, but their best.

@david75090

Giving their best?

With online dating, 80% of people (men and women) post old photos and lie about their age, height, weight, fitness and/or profession.

I arrive early at a cafe', nicely dressed to honor the occasion. Raised to have good manners, I engage men in conversation. Enjoy meeting people. Here's what happened:

  1. Most show up badly overweight and out of shape. And years older.

  2. 75% of the men expected sex on the first date.

  3. Every man with closed-lip photos had missing and/or rotten teeth.

  4. Guys have the fantasy of being fit and hiking with me:

"You can whip me into shape."
"You can teach me to hike.”
“Will you be my guardian angel?"
"You can make me happy."

Many men are divorced for a darn good reason. In my experience, most guys can hold it together for about three weeks. Then their bad behavior comes out, the same behavior that killed their last relationships.

They go from relationship-to-relationship because they are unwilling to work on themselves.

@LiterateHiker Yep. You're doing very well. Apparently, they're not. Is there a common denominator in all that?

@david75090

People falsely advertise themselves. I insist on a phone conversation before meeting. Most men do good phone.

Online dating is like a blind date. You never know who will show up.

One man posted photos of his son. Advertised himself as 55. I blanched when he stepped out of his truck. He saw my face and instantly got defensive. He looked like the grandfather of the man in his photos.

"It's advertising!" he insisted. "I got you to meet me, didn't I?"

"It's LYING," I countered. He admitted to being 74. He looked 80.

I got a manicure for this?

@david75090

How old are YOUR photos? Why do you only show yourself from the chin up? It looks like you are ashamed of what's below your chin.

I dated my photos. Why didn't you?

Look in the mirror before criticizing me.

@LiterateHiker That's funny but I can see why you were annoyed. I met my current partner online and before that dated several women who were just as they advertised themselves. Maybe women are more honest than men. Regarding the unfit and overweight men, on my travels in the USA I got the impression that people,both men and women, were either normal size or grossly obese so you may have problems.
I recently saw a dating site for outdoor active people advertised here , do you not have something similar with you.?

@LiterateHiker I'm guessing that you're at the upper range of the physically fit in your age range and are looking for the same in your men. Sounds like you aren't getting your needs met. You must be meeting a bunch of wannabes who wish they were in your category but aren't.

Don't condone false advertising. That's annoying. It happens. Saw a gal on a dating site that I knew was a year behind me in school who listed her age as 62. I'm 68 so I knew that couldn't be right. I eventually asked her about it and she said she was getting too many really old guys contacting her. I thought, but didn't say, that we're in out late 60s and old guys would be age appropriate.

I looked at my replies where I criticized you in my comments, but didn't see it.

@david75090

I've had better luck finding a fit man since joining Fitness Singles two years ago. That's how I met Bill.

Here's a photo of Bill, MD, and me in December 2017. I took Bill snowshoeing for the first time.

"One of the happiest memories in my life was when you took me snowshoeing in the mountains," he said in March 2019.

Bill l is a competitive bicyclist who is 10 years younger than me. Last Saturday, he rode a 100-mile bicycle race in 94-degree heat. To train for the race, he has been riding 150 miles/week. He also lifts weights.

"I want to keep my muscles so I'm attractive to you," Bill said.

In the second photo, the men had finished riding 90 miles, gaining 3,900 feet of elevation. A week ago. Bill is on the left in the orange shirt. He is 6' 2" tall.

@LiterateHiker this is just funny and appalling at the same time.

6

I believe you will be much happier once you start dating women

I agree!

5

I can't imagine a world where people didn't share with me?
Men and women have done this my entire life because I'm a good listener. (Apparently).

There are few people who don't want to process what's going on in their lives.
I dare say it's what separates us from most animals. We dwell on where we've been and try to do better.

Some need to do it more than others.
Some avoid it like it is a terrible idea to process what they've experienced.

I'd much rather deal with the person who does think about it. They're less likely to sudden outbursts from pent up feelings. (ie they just aren't emotionally healthy).

I do think perhaps you are looking for someone of a certain "type". And that's not the type you're finding. I can't say I envy what you'd find in such a closed off person though?

And unless the person is processing really old stuff with you (ie they're dealing with old hurt and should be in therapy for it?) - this seems like normal behavior to me. (And I have referred friends to therapy btw). And yes hearing it 'again' can be draining - but who of us doesn't repeat ourselves?

I think listening is something we do out of love for someone else.

5

Just a minor note, thinking out loud and verbal diarrhea are not traits generally associated with introverts.

5

People are people and being emotionally stunted is not determined by gender. I guess at this point I would be asking myself.. "Why do I feel drawn to "emotionally stunted" men?

5

Nailed it.

It's a big part of why I'm done.
I just don't want to anymore.
It's simply too exhausting, and has become one of those zero-sum propositions.
It's more trouble than it's worth.

4

If I wasn't emotionally stunted, I'd take offense.

Dad used to tell me, "if you pull one more stunt like that, boy, I'm going to come down hard on you." For a long time, I was stunted. Since he passed, it's been open season. All stunt, all the time.

4

To be blunt. Either you have been very unlucky in the men you have met or part of the problem may be with you.

With most people, the answer is some of both.

3

Sometimes people just want to vent. Perhaps you don't want a man that shares his feelings. Then I wonder if you would tolerate this kind of venting from your same sex friends. I think these are all important in understanding what you want.
Acceptance leads to happiness. So if you can't accept something for what it is you'll never be happy with it.

@Biosteelman

Of course I want a man who appropriately shares his feelings. The key word is "appropriately."

Terry rarely cared about my feelings. When I had nine consecutive breast infections after giving birth to our daughter, with a high fever (103 degrees), he never took time off work to help me. All he did was criticize.

As I saw it, there were three issues with Terry:

  1. He needed a professional therapist. Since our divorce 20 years ago, he has been getting therapy.

  2. Overtalking. As he gets older, his overtalking is getting worse.

  3. Selfishness. "Terry has always been selfish," his mother said. She was right.

3

So this guy was going through some serious and very emotional shit and when he poured his heart out to you, his wife, his significant other, in his own long-winded and circular way, it bored the shit out of you? And now you're sick of listening, understanding, and generally giving a shit? And all because he was never taught or had any real experience voicing his emotions in a more succinct way? Yeah... I'm going to stop asking questions now, because I'm not convinced Terry was the issue in that relationship.

@Kafirah

Thanks. I edited the article to be more clear. Since our divorce 20 years ago, Terry has been seeing a therapist. As he gets older, his overtalking has been getting worse.

Happily, I am dating a medical doctor who is emotionally mature, a rarity.

3

Sounds like the concersations I had with my ex same ones over and over and no matter what advice I gave her she still complained about teh same things

3

And the burden placed on men by emotionally stunted women is OK? Evidently you are attracted to these types of men. I run from those type of people male or female.

2

Everyone, and I mean everyone has some kind of bullshit about them that the other person has to either be okay with or, if they're not, end the relationship. Long lasting relationships are those where each person has learned to accept or cope with whatever personal peccadillos the other comes with.

But everyone comes with their own personal bullshit. There's no exceptions to that.

You are 100% correct.
I have enough of my own bullshit to deal with, and no desire
to deal with anyone else's.
Nor subject them to mine.

Everyone has quirks. We have to find someone who's "crazy" more aligns with our own "crazy", or is at least palatable.

2

I think Terry just needs a night of dirty dirty sex with his lady friend

2

Very interesting article. The points on patriarchy and toxic masculinity remind me greatly of a Unitarian church service I recently attended (first time in over two years, but the topic seemed so interesting to me) on toxic masculinity with readings and a video by Bell Hooks. Both men and women lose from patriarchy and the video was about a prison group for men learning about these subjects and trying to change.

2

I think no one should not take for granted the time other people spend for you, no matter how. Talking, listening, caring, etc. It's a privilege, not a right. Life is too short and too precious to waste it with endless long versions, monologues going in circles. It's a lack of empathy.

2

I'm the kind of guy who can get just about anyone to spill their entire life story to me in only a few minutes of talking to them. All their hopes, dreams, insecurities, personal problems, etc. It happens in and outside of relationships. Some people are not very emotionally intelligent, and either don't know how to identify and convey their feelings, or don't know how to react to peoples emotions once they are presented. It takes a lot of hard work and effort to get yourself good at both of these things, and if someone is incapable of the introspection necessary to solve their own emotional problems then they may feel they need to talk to someone else. You could work on the second part to try and accelerate the process so they learn to solve their own problems.

GregM Level 5 May 12, 2019
2

I have never wanted to burden others with my problems and crises -- they have plenty of their own. I believe that we have to work through and process past pains and losses within ourselves. I agree with Mark Twain,s statement: "joy, in order to be real joy has to be shared. Misery can take care of itself."

2

As an emotionally-stunted man who has spent time with other emotionally stunted men, I applaud your patience.

A man should have some other form of venting than complaining.

2

It depends upon where you find the men you are attracted to there are emotionally stable men. It may be that you are not attracted to stable guys and want men who need fixing check your feelings there is a old saying when you lay with dogs don't be surprised when you get fleas

bobwjr Level 10 May 12, 2019
1

I think it all comes down to communication styles and how we're encouraged or discouraged as children to express ourselves. Boys and girls have often been socialized differently; hopefully that's changing and will continue to change moving forward.

1

When I was a minister, I saw this in a lot of marriages, where the husband has few friends and processes his thoughts ONLY with his wife. And it's exhausting for her. Often, it's a one-way arrangement where the wife doesn't get to talk over her feelings with him.

I'm glad you're in a better place and that you have someone who is mature.

@Damercer1961

Thank you for your insightful, supportive reply. I appreciate you.

1

"Selfishness. "Terry has always been selfish," his mother said. She was right." You should be asking yourself why you picked him. I am getting the impression that you think you are quite the catch.

@dahermit

His mother told me that AFTER we were married.

Why do you blame women when things go wrong? I'm sick of it.

@LiterateHiker Because women make emotionally based, illogical, foolish choices and then complain about the lack of quality of those whom they have chosen...I am sick of that. Beside that, I wonder how your former would describe you...we are getting only one side of the story here.

@dahermit

Terry and I are still friends. Yesterday Terry, an artist, gave me flowers and a handmade Mother's Day card. He wrote:

"Kathleen,

"Happy Mother's Day! To a thoughtful and caring mother to Claire. She has evolved into a strong, caring young woman due in large part to your positive support of her journey. Terry"

@LiterateHiker that's lovely! He appreciates how good a mother you were and are.

1

When I was online dating I had a similar experience the number seem about right. for every 100 contacts there was a relationship of some substance, most prospects die on the vine or did not survive the first telephone conversation. don't get me wrong it's a valid way to meet people, as far as real emotional spiritual maturity that is rare if you find a man that can keep up with you intellectually he is a keeper but they will be few and far between and you may have to make some compromises good luck

1

I was married for 19 years... been 19 years divorced. Me and my EX still go dancing together when in same city. Still talk on the phone. She had remarried and divorced and she has a boyfriend now with plans of living together now that she just retired. I may had been a Cheater that Broke her Heart Twice by her account. But she is the Mother of my children. The only woman on earth that I ever called wife. And we dance better with each other now that we ever did while dating or marriage... That's Life! I am sure that she does wonders sometimes just like I do.... if she would had not found a Poem dedicated to another woman we will still be together Happily Ever After but Life is what Happens. I learned my lesson. She thought I was in love with that person... and I never wrote nothing that pretty for her. I just had the gift to write pretty. I still communicate with other women in my past. One told me once... "You are the Saddest Man on Earth... Fortunate for the world you love to be Sad and thrives in it writing beautiful things. I do will like one more Dance at Love but I set in my youth certain standards and I had never diverted from them. My biggest scare was ending with the wrong woman... I am convinced now that it will never happen... I consider myself lucky that never met a Bad Woman. And one day she will walk or dance into my life and she will whisper "I thought I never find you"... my response will be very honest... "I am sorry that instead of looking for you, I waited for you". Happy Mothers Day to All the Ladies in My Life... Past and Future. There are Men that Gets it... Lucky You and Congrats if you found one!!!

1

Happy Mother's Day

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