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Emotionally-stunted men

The problem goes beyond emotionally stunted men and the burden they place on women.

I was the live-in therapist for my husband, helping Terry process his feelings about problems with male friends, irritating board members, men at work, racism he experienced (Terry is Latino), etc.

Don't get me wrong. Terry has many good qualities and is a wonderful father.

A year after we were married, Terry was rejected by longtime male friends when he protested their sneaking illegal drugs across the Canadian border with him in the car. He was furious.

"I could have lost my teacher's license!" Terry fumed. At 35, Terry had to make new friends. This was hard for him as an introvert. He experienced a lot of grief.

Terry thinks out loud. He talks nonstop (verbal diarrhea, I thought wryly). I am good at listening and succinctly clarifying the main issues.

"Exactly!" Terry enthused when, with one sentence, I summarized 20 minutes of rambling. "I feel much better," he said afterward. Everyone want to feel heard.

To tell you the truth, I got intellectually bored with Terry talking in circles, saying the same thing in different ways. "Get to the point," I though.

Since our divorce 20 years ago, Terry has been seeing a therapist. Unfortunately, his over-talking has gotten worse with age.

Dating has been a parade of emotionally-constipated men. A shining exception is a mental health therapist, Bruce, who is wise and funny. Bruce and I are friends; he moved to Dallas.

Through online dating, I met over 100 men in the past ten years. I screen them with a phone call first. Most men do good phone. I have reached the point where I'm surprised when a man looks like his photos.

With 90% percent of the men, I declined a second date. Meeting different men has been shocking, hilarious, interesting and fun. I learn from everyone I meet.

Happily, the medical doctor I am dating is emotionally mature. Bill is kind, patient, self-reflective, highly intelligent, fit, funny and fun.

Your thoughts?

[slate.com]

LiterateHiker 9 May 12
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40 comments (26 - 40)

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1

Perhaps your men are giving you their best. Not as good as your best, but their best.

@david75090

Giving their best?

With online dating, 80% of people (men and women) post old photos and lie about their age, height, weight, fitness and/or profession.

I arrive early at a cafe', nicely dressed to honor the occasion. Raised to have good manners, I engage men in conversation. Enjoy meeting people. Here's what happened:

  1. Most show up badly overweight and out of shape. And years older.

  2. 75% of the men expected sex on the first date.

  3. Every man with closed-lip photos had missing and/or rotten teeth.

  4. Guys have the fantasy of being fit and hiking with me:

"You can whip me into shape."
"You can teach me to hike.”
“Will you be my guardian angel?"
"You can make me happy."

Many men are divorced for a darn good reason. In my experience, most guys can hold it together for about three weeks. Then their bad behavior comes out, the same behavior that killed their last relationships.

They go from relationship-to-relationship because they are unwilling to work on themselves.

@LiterateHiker Yep. You're doing very well. Apparently, they're not. Is there a common denominator in all that?

@david75090

People falsely advertise themselves. I insist on a phone conversation before meeting. Most men do good phone.

Online dating is like a blind date. You never know who will show up.

One man posted photos of his son. Advertised himself as 55. I blanched when he stepped out of his truck. He saw my face and instantly got defensive. He looked like the grandfather of the man in his photos.

"It's advertising!" he insisted. "I got you to meet me, didn't I?"

"It's LYING," I countered. He admitted to being 74. He looked 80.

I got a manicure for this?

@david75090

How old are YOUR photos? Why do you only show yourself from the chin up? It looks like you are ashamed of what's below your chin.

I dated my photos. Why didn't you?

Look in the mirror before criticizing me.

@LiterateHiker That's funny but I can see why you were annoyed. I met my current partner online and before that dated several women who were just as they advertised themselves. Maybe women are more honest than men. Regarding the unfit and overweight men, on my travels in the USA I got the impression that people,both men and women, were either normal size or grossly obese so you may have problems.
I recently saw a dating site for outdoor active people advertised here , do you not have something similar with you.?

@LiterateHiker I'm guessing that you're at the upper range of the physically fit in your age range and are looking for the same in your men. Sounds like you aren't getting your needs met. You must be meeting a bunch of wannabes who wish they were in your category but aren't.

Don't condone false advertising. That's annoying. It happens. Saw a gal on a dating site that I knew was a year behind me in school who listed her age as 62. I'm 68 so I knew that couldn't be right. I eventually asked her about it and she said she was getting too many really old guys contacting her. I thought, but didn't say, that we're in out late 60s and old guys would be age appropriate.

I looked at my replies where I criticized you in my comments, but didn't see it.

@david75090

I've had better luck finding a fit man since joining Fitness Singles two years ago. That's how I met Bill.

Here's a photo of Bill, MD, and me in December 2017. I took Bill snowshoeing for the first time.

"One of the happiest memories in my life was when you took me snowshoeing in the mountains," he said in March 2019.

Bill l is a competitive bicyclist who is 10 years younger than me. Last Saturday, he rode a 100-mile bicycle race in 94-degree heat. To train for the race, he has been riding 150 miles/week. He also lifts weights.

"I want to keep my muscles so I'm attractive to you," Bill said.

In the second photo, the men had finished riding 90 miles, gaining 3,900 feet of elevation. A week ago. Bill is on the left in the orange shirt. He is 6' 2" tall.

@LiterateHiker this is just funny and appalling at the same time.

1

I have that voice that people think they can trust and they tell me all sorts of stuff. I become an immediate trusted friend. Makes me kinda batty at times. We all need someone safe in our lives to discuss our issues with. If we're lucky the person who talks to us will also be the person we can talk to. I have only had that with my sister and there are some things I just can't tell her. Once when I told my ex I was taking anti depressants he told me he didn't want to hear it because it made him depressed. Do you ever wonder how our grandparents and their grand parents made it through? In many cases they were too busy and too worn out by trying to keep alive, keep the kids fed, chores done, and the place repaired to think about their emotional life. I wonder if they weren't better off than we are now.

1

I agree that most men are emotionally challenged, compared to most women. If we were like women, there would be few knights.

1

Sadly common. Chomsky observed that Americans (it is not just men) emotional development stops in high school. I think the explosion of social media had made it move back from there. So you have to put up with it in public settings, but be ruthless when deciding who to spend time with. Better to be with oneself than with a person who drains you.

1

Despite the fact that you give a link to the article, a lot of the comments below seem to think that Terry is your husband. Interesting. I dated one guy like that and that was plenty. Someone not having friends is a red flag to me. This guy acted like he had friends and I even met them, but none of them were real friends. It took me some time to figure that out.

@Stephanie99

Thank you. I edited the conclusion, making it clear we are divorced.

1

If someone is sharing their most intimate secrets, they are not emotionally stunted. If someone is incapable of sharing in that secret (listening and processing), they're stunted.

That doesn't mean that people can't grow apart and need something that their partner can't give. Stop playing the blame game though. Terry sounds like an honest, good person that's only fault is he falsely believed that someone cared.

1

I was my wife's therapist and direct support professional until I left her six months ago. Now I'm supporting her in making good decisions during the divorce and custody arrangements for our child. She's ridiculous.

You need to set boundaries and say enough is enough. You will no-longer be with emotionally stunted people. If that means a life alone, then so be it. It is within your power to say no.

1

If you fish in the same pond and use the same bait you'll catch the same kind of fish, over and over. Sometimes when you change your fishing hole and go with another kind of bait you don't catch anything at all, so there's a risk involved. But it sounds like even you think it's time for something different. Don't give up! Good luck, LH.

Reminds me of the vast majority of women on Match that I see, about 70% of the profiles I view, who are divorced and will only date men who are divorced, not anyone widowed. Probably because they think that all, instead of a minority, of widowed men are still emotionally married to their dead wives. So they stick to only dating the familiar, fellow divorcees, and wonder why they are all leftovers or not good at relationships.

@zeuser

Happily, I am dating a medical doctor who is emotionally mature. He is kind, patient, disciplined, caring, fit, and has excellent self control.

1

You seem to not make good choices when choosing men. If you do not like emotionally stunted men, choose otherwise and then they will not be such a burden for you. Myself, I dislike and avoid emotionally needy women.

@dahermit

Through online dating, I have met over 100 men in the last 10 years. I screen them with a phone call first. Most men do good phone. With 90% of the men I met, I declined a second date.

Eighty-percent of people post old photos and lie about their age, height, etc. on their online dating profiles, research shows. I have reached the point where I feel surprised when a man looks like his photos.

Meeting different men has been fun, hilarious, shocking and interesting. I learn from everyone I meet.

1

Terry sounds like his life didn’t turn out like he planned and he doesn’t cope with it constructively. You sound like you are attracted to this initially. If you are truly good at listening then you should be able to identify your own pattern and make a constructive change. Learn from failed experiments and all. Kind of a sad tone to your post. I hope that changes for you.

1

I'm a male who has described myself as "shattered" since my ex and I split up. Am I emotionally stunted? Perhaps. I am an introvert with few friends and this is by choice. I love all types of conversation and I feel that I can easily identify with Terry. This does not mean that I am constantly running others down. That would tick me off being around such a person. Instead I have to know and understand a situation as much as possible and this includes people and why they do things. I may quickly learn your faults but I can also see the many faults of my own. Others that I know avoid such things by just ignoring them and pretending. This is why I see so many people as phoney.

1

I can't comment on dating, but as far as relationships go, it sounds like you have a type. I dunno where the line is between the two (guys you date, whose talking reveals some sort of emotional incompetence, vs guys who you've had longer term relationships with, whose talking might have been part of a growth process) but it doesn't seem like a bad idea to separate the two, and accept other people's imperfections.

1

You need to up your game.😼

@Bigpawbullets

Don't blame me.

Thorough online dating, I met over 100 men in the past 10 years. I screen me with a phone call first. Most men do good phone. I've reached the point that I feel surprised when a man looks like his photos.

With 90 percent of the men, I declined a second date. Meeting different men has been fun, hilarious and shocking. I learn from everyone I meet.

Happily, the medical doctor I am dating is emotionally mature. He is kind, thoughtful, patient, giving, disciplined, physically fit, self-reflective and has tremendous self-control. Bravo!

@LiterateHiker
Guy with the aircraft? "Women must be submissive"?

@bigpawbullets

Bill, MD, gave up on pushing me to have anal sex and act submissive.

"I miss you," he wrote three months ago. "One of my happiest memories was when you took me snowshoeing in the mountains."

That weekend, he texted: "It's such a beautiful day, I flew to Wenatchee to ride the Apple Capital loop trail. If you are willing to meet me at the airport, I'll take you for a ride."

Happy dance! I LOVE flying in a small airplane. "I'll bite," I replied. "Am going for a run. What time do you want to meet?"

"Where do you want to go?" Bill asked when I arrived at the airport.

We flew up Lake Chelan to Stehekin and North Cascades National Park. It was spectacular!

Returning, Bill followed the serpentine curves of Lake Chelan, flying just 200 feet above the lake. High ridges embraced us on both sides, The lake was still as glass. From the air, I could see currents changing direction. It was a magical moment.

A rainbow followed us down the Columbia River.

Hey kiddo! As long as you're happy!!!

0

Sounds like Bill just classifies all the rest as mistakes for you. Hope it proves to be all you need.

@Francool

Relationships are learning experiences, not mistakes.

See my reply to @david75090, below.

@LiterateHiker yup I hear that, had read all the other posts before responding. I think it is sad but as I 'meant' Bill sounds cool.
I don't get why anyone should be dishonest as if you meet it would be so obvious. But then I do not give a fuck what people think about me and if I am not their cup of tea, fine.

0

Lol. I'm reading this thinking "Isn't this what women always say they want in a man. Someone who'll listen to them talk? See what a pain in the ass it is?" 🙂

My wife, an introvert herself (who, for the record, I love it when she does this. Yes, really.) claims that as an introvert she only talks to people she actually likes, so when she does it I know why she's burdened me with listening. YMMV, obviously.

1of5 Level 8 May 12, 2019
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