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LINK Here’s the punishment for actual rapists in Alabama – ThinkProgress

The knuckle dragging cavemen in the Alabama State Senate should be ashamed of themselves . The is certainly a club to the head for all women

ballou 8 May 16
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28 comments

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0

Reply button is not working. Jorj here is a resource for you. You are correct, most scholarly articles pre-date 2000 the subject we've been discussing. Post 2000 they appear in book form and are not accessible online.
[politico.com]

@jorj I agree with your summarization of the president. But that is about all. Men arent oppressed in any discetnable manner other than being held accountable for their historically boorish behavior.

You talk about how bad the Democratic candidate was in the last election. I don't disagree. But that was most sexist campaign at that level of politics in perhaps our nations history. Hillary, whether you liked her or not (irrelevant) was held to a higher standard than any male candidate ever was. Her every gesture, statement or move was analyzed in microscopic detail. Her ability was questioned continually, not based on record and accomplishments, but on gender grounds, if not openly and overtly, then snidely and on the side. The same is happening with the female Democratic candidates running now.

I don't know what type of isolation you are experiencing in Appalachia that you can not see the disparity or the realities. Should I have time between giving and grading my finals this next week, I'll send you some references, not that it will change your mind about anything. Whatever damage was done to you in life has set your perceptions and opinions fairly intractable.

You are correct about one thing. The fact that I missed the publication date on the first reference I sent you is inexcusable. I was being sloppy. Won't happen again.

13

So help me, if I were ever to win the lottery for a significant amount of money,
I'd be creating a mechanism to get women abortions when they want them.
I'd be providing transportation, lodging, childcare, whatever they needed to make
sure they had access to safe abortions.
I don't even give a shit about "legal" anymore. I'd make sure I could hire lawyers, too.
Then, I'd be advertising in all the states that are restricting abortion.
I'd start an underground network that women could contact when they needed help.

I bet, before long, I wouldn't be the only one funding it either.
Fuck these assholes.
I really wish I could tell them ALL off, and tell them to shove their god up their asses.

I'm pissed and I want to DO something about it.
Voting has obviously not been enough. Working in clinics hasn't been enough.
Doing picket duty hasn't been enough.

6

What pisses me off even more than the men who come up with these bullshit laws, are the women who vote for these religious assholes knowing that other women will be harmed by this law. It was a woman Governor who signed the fucking bill. Alabama has been a backward red state for a very long time. I don't see that changing anytime soon, so expect more of this kind of shit in the future.

6

The governor , who signed this bill into law , is a WOMAN ?

Yeah, she's obviously an idiot!

6

Damn it!!! I accidentally posted before I was done, and I am not being permitted
to go back and edit.

Rape should carry the death penalty.
I'm really starting to change my position on vigilantism.
If rapists suddenly started turning up dead, it might make some of them think twice.
If they don't, they could be eliminated, too.
I'm really okay with women starting to take the law into our own hands.
You know, since the fucking law is not protecting us.

What about women that rape men? Do you think they should also get the death penalty?

6

They wanted to make getting a vasectomy a felony too. My God, who are these people?!

6

In my state of Washington there is a one year statute of limitation on reporting a rape. I spent two years writing letters to every single politician in the state trying to find out how to get this changed. Only one ever responded, and he told me it was going to be an uphill battle and I could look at 10 years or more of active lobbying to even try to get someone to listen. This is in a fairly progressive state and it just showed how unimportant women are to society in this country. I was raped and molested four times from the time I was 3 until I was 19. The worst was when I was 14 and I was raped repeatedly by my boyfriend for two months. No one noticed and I never told anyone, about any of it, but especially this one because he threatened to kill me if I did. I have no doubt he would have since he is not spending life in prison for 1st degree murder. He raped 6 other girls that same summer. I kept my secret about all of these for 50 years, until finally during chemo I had an emotional breakdown when all of the memories came flooding back. I finally got therapy for the trauma and I am still angry about it all. When I first started talking about my own rape stories, I was called a liar, a slut, people blamed what I was wearing, where I was, what I was doing, and me just simply because I was female. The rapists were never blamed. In this country, less than 2% of rapes are ever reported. Of those 2% less than 2% of rapists are ever arrested. Of those 2%, only 2% of those arrested are ever convicted. Now these numbers fluctuate depending on when and where the reports come in, but since Donald Trump started bragging about sexually assaulting women, assaults and rapes have increased, and while more women have started to report their assaults, thanks to the #MeToo movement, arrests and convictions have dropped even lower. I expect them to drop even more and expect to see the number assaults to increase.

6

"Alabama’s bill to impose a total abortion ban, passed by the male-dominated state Senate on Tuesday night, is so extreme that in some cases, it would impose harsher penalties on doctors who perform the procedure than those who actually commit rape or incest."

Yup and it's total bullshit!

5

I don't think any vote should count, regarding cases of rape and incest, unless the lawmaker casting the vote has been a victim of either.

As a survivor of both incest and rape, I can attest to the fact that forcing a woman to carry out the pregnancy could very well cause physical harm to her from an abusive father, husband, boyfriend or rapist.

How is a woman to prove her health/safety is in danger from the male who impregnated her? Tell her story to family/friends/authorities who won't believe her, will disown her, ridicule her and worse? Not going to happen.

My fear is that we will see an increase in pregnant women committing suicide, or being murdered, and/or back alley illegal and unsafe (botched) abortions, given this harsh law.

Women who are victims of rape and incest often do not come forward, out of fear. The men who impregnate women and girls this way would rather see the pregnancy (or the woman/girl) go away then to be responsible for the embarrassment and financial responsibility for bringing a child into the world.

Many people say that adoption is the answer. That is also a horrific decision to place on a pregnant woman, and is also a punishment, in addition to the pains and financial burdens of being pregnant against her wishes, loss of work, stigma, etc.

Who pays for the medical costs of a woman forced to give birth against her wishes, due to rape or incest? I fear it is the woman, with her life.

That's true ,but the Christians and the Bible teach that the hatred of women is God's will. No Christian man or woman believes that women are worthy of their right to life and autonomy.

@actofdog honestly?! you're seriously shocked that misogyny has roots in religion? According to the Bible women were made to be slaves to men and forced to Bare children in agony because we ruined the world. The law in Alabama says it all .I personally believe that that's where sexism comes from the Bible and Christians . Many of the Evangelical politicians say that rape is not that bad and getting pregnant because of a rape is the silver lining. could go on and on and on about the stories. Perhaps it is the Southern States. I'm losing my patience with evangelicals and go out of my way to be the biggest asshole i can when given the opportunity. And normally when I do, I'm told by the evangelicals that anger is not attractive in a woman. In other words, I don't know my place as a woman.

5

@HappyKilbot
You know what? I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but that's not what the pervasive problem is, now, IS IT?

The problem is a whole lot of men and rampant misogyny.
The problem is some men still thinking they have a right to control women.
I'm sick of the "what abouts?" Shove the "what abouts".

This didn't come up as a continuation of the last post. Idk if that is a technical glitch or not.

How can you fight a double standard, and then also support a double standard? The moral and philosophical implications of what you support are absolute. I don't support misogyny, I agree with you very strongly that the punishment for rapists is awfully lenient, and I can't say I like what Alabama's laws either, although my reasons differ from yours significantly.

This is all about the rights of the individual over the collective. There is a strong authoritarian draw in this country from both political parties, and I think that's something more disturbing than any abortion law.

4

Sharia. No matter the religion or language. These imbeciles give men a bad rap.

3

When the Evangelicals (this is the Bible Belt), want to prove their power, nothing is off the table! They want ‘things,’ like they were in the olden days...these people cannot THINK past this point! Theirs is an imagery life! Makes no difference to them that WE all are going to pay a price for their actions and inability to think past the ‘dark ages!’ God has told them, ‘what is what’...end of story!

2

My edit button is broken. I think I've changed my mind about talibama. I don't really want to see it burn ,but I think I'm going to put on my pink pussy hat and go burn that mother fucker down myself. Who's in?

2

Talibama, number 49 in everything. it's literally a shithole state. I hope burns down.

2

<a href="https://www.pewforum.org/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortion/#data" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank" class="forumlink">[pewforum.org]

Women who believe abortion should be legal in all or most cases: 60%
Men who believe abortion should be legal in all or most cases: 57%

Women who believe abortion should be illegal in all or most cases: 36%
Men who believe abortion should be illegal in all or most case: 37%

So yeah, I agree that men aren't solely to blame for this. It's actually pretty even, and like @jorj said, a lot of women voted these people into office knowing damn well what their views are.

The number of people who believe abortion should be legal or illegal is also surprisingly even across all ages and races, and the majority are for abortion being legal.

Religion, political ideology, and education level are mostly to blame for this mentality, not gender.

Abortion belief based on religion:

<a href="https://www.pewforum.org/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortion/#data" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank" class="forumlink">[pewforum.org]

White evangelical Protestant for abortion being legal: 34%
White evangelical Protestant for abortion being illegal: 61%

Catholic for abortion being legal: 51%
Catholic for abortion being illegal: 42%

White mainline Protestant for abortion being legal: 67%
White mainline Protestant for abortion being illegal: 28%

Unaffiliated for abortion being legal: 74%
Unaffiliated for abortion being legal: 21%

Abortion belief based on education level:

<a href="https://www.pewforum.org/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortion/#data" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank" class="forumlink">[pewforum.org]

High school or less for abortion being legal: 48%
High school or less for abortion being illegal: 47%

Some college for abortion being legal: 60%
Some college for abortion being illegal: 35%

College grad or more for abortion being legal: 71%
College grad or more for abortion being illegal: 25%
2

The whole thing is insane. Anyone, man or woman who thinks this is right has to be a very limited thinker.

2

And a female governor signed it into law. But no matter, all that has been accomplished is that Alabama has again proved to the rest of the country (and the world) how ignorant and backwards they are (they are currently ranked 5th lowest in education in the US). The first time this law gets challenged, it is going down hard. It's any lawyer's wet dream come true. In fact, so much so, that I almost wouldn't be surprised to learn that the Alabama Bar Association was behind the legislation.

2

@jorj
It was a female christian republican governor who signed the bill into law.
I have no use for the women who continue to vote for anti-choice, pro-birth republicans, male or female. I have no use for women who believe in gods.
I am NOT "creating a double-standard". The double-standard was created a
LONG time before I ever showed up.

I get to feel any way I want about the issue.
I do not need to be lectured by you, or anyone else.
The patriarchy needs to die. No matter who is supporting it.

2

I hate this issue because both sides have valid moral arguments, science can be made to support either side, and there is no wining only damage control. So screw all of it, I have a creative solution.

So, what this argument boils down to is a simple question: Should someone have the right to do what they want with their own body, even if that harms or kills someone else.

Whats the closest thing we have to that? The best answer I can think of is live organ donation. Most people would be willing to give up an unnecessary organ to save someone else's life, but isn't it different because you are hurting them through inaction rather than action? Not to mention severity? Well, maybe not. You can live without a kidney, but what about something more extreme, like a lung? You give up a lung that will change your life in a lot of fundamental ways. You end up with the same moral dilemma. If you chose to donate your lung, your life and the life of someone else ( lung donation requires two donors, one provides each lobe ) are permanently altered. On the other hand, the life of someone you have never met dies.

Okay, so how does live organ donation work on the legal side?
First off, a living organ donor can not be paid under the legal organ transplant act of 1984.
The transplant will be paid for by both the donors and the recipient's insurance.
The decision to donate an organ is the responsibility of the donor or their legal guardian if they are a minor.
If the organ is to be donated to someone who is not family to the donor, the donating individual must be met by a council who will determine if the organ is to be donated out of purely altruistic intention, considering the above statements.

There are a lot of good considerations here that don't get often discussed.

Very good response! We should discuss the issue on its merits without resorting to name-calling.

You have expressed it nicely. How much freedom do individuals have in making decisions that affect other people?

Anyone should see that human bodies are a dime a dozen. There are plenty of them with more continually being produced. At what point is a fetus a person? What the heck is a person in the first place? Religious people should be the first to uphold the idea that we are not our bodies but something much more.

I see an organism as just an instrument, a robot for the use of conscious awareness. Conscious awareness likes to interact with the river of organisms, but the life or death of individuals is of little concern. We see natural disasters that wipe out bodies en masse, and of course the life of an individual is very brief in the first place. All that matters is the continuum of life, and that is something that manages its own self.

The decision as to whether and when to have children belongs solely to the parents, and especially to the mother. Politicians should keep their noses out. If a person doesn’t approve of abortion, then they don’t have to have one. After a baby is born and is being utilized by conscious awareness, then that body must be preserved and protected out of respect for its owner if possible, but until that time it is under the sole ownership and control of the mother.

2

Since replay button doesn't work, here is just an observation to a comment below regarding a "male dominated senate"... The bill has been approved and signed by the governor that happens to be a woman. I just find interesting this little detail keeps getting overlooked. Again, just an observation. I don't have a stand either way.

1

Ah yes, the Sundays Only Christians, Pro-Lifer Movements, etc, etc, ad infinitum to which ALL Life is Sacred BUT have no qualms/compunctions when it comes to THEIR Country bombing another country, taking the lives of innocent men, women, children, babies and unborn babies BUT scream like stuck pigs about Women having control over what happens to and within THEIR OWN bodies, the BLATANT hypocrisy runs riot does it not?

1

@Happy_Killbot

I am unable to reply to specific posts. The "reply" and "edit" functions are not working for me. Haven't been all day.

I do not give a shit about liberals, or the left.
Never have. I am not part of either. I'm also not a democrat.
I'm not a fan of labels.
Although, lately, I'm leaning more toward anarchy.

Further, what would be so wrong about establishing a matriarchy anyway?
The patriarchy has had more than enough time to fuck everything up.
Seems like it's high time that the women should get their shot at it.

There is NEVER going to be "equality".
Time for the pendulum to swing back in the other direction.

Like it or hate it, most of the left are pro-choice. So by choosing not to associate with them, you cut yourself off from a lot of potentially useful resources that could be utilized to aid in the establishment of your agenda. However, in order to obtain these resources you will have to play by their rules, and in this case that means rejecting inequality in whatever form it takes.

As far as matriarchies go, it is hard to say how good or bad it would be because I can't think of any real world examples. Although I think that there is just as much chance that such a system would be anti abortion, more or less for the same reasons a patriarchy would be. The difference would be in the way the system is set up culturally and legally. It is possible that a society could use children to keep men repressed the same way you believe it keep women repressed. Supposed it was culturally and legally normal for the man to raise the child without the mothers support, regardless of the circumstance of the childs birth.

Now there would be a reason for women to get pregnant, because they could force additional responsibility on men keeping them financially restrained. Thus abortion laws would reasonably be made illegal. Individuals and children suffer in much the same way.

Same song different tune.

If a woman rapes a man in the US and has a child, the man is still required to pay child support. Now I think we have come full circle.

1

@jorj
Kindly take your bullshit and stuff it.
You chose to comment on my post, you continually imply that I'm "on the left".
It IS about me. Your passive/aggressive bullshit is tiresome.
You claim to have facts but you're making your shit up as you go along.

1

I see everyone is having a good time in the comments section. No one is overreacting at all. Good show.

1

@Happy_Killbot

I do not care about whether or not I'm "supporting a double-standard" anymore.
It doesn't matter to me. It's time the shoe went onto the other foot, and fucking stayed there.

We are too far gone to be concerned with being "fair to both sides". That's how
we've gotten where we are.
Trying to be "reasonable" has been repeatedly proven to be a complete waste of time and effort. Don't even come at me with that bullshit. Being reasonable is a
whole lotta horseshit meant to keep us quiet.

Women have been "too nice", and "too fair". We've been shouted down, pushed
out of the way, run roughshod over, and generally treated like shit.
I'm fucking DONE.

KILL THE PATRIARCHY.

Then you don't want to kill the patriarchy, what you actually want is to establish a matriarchy.

Its this very worldview that is destroying the left and leading to many of the victories the right obtains. You are denying and corrupting liberal principals in the name of liberalism. That doesn't bother you?

P.S. It also ended up as another comment again. looks like the same thing is happening in other posts. Is this an intentional change?

1

Many females could die without a life saving abortion. My ex would've died from high blood pressure if she carried for long and I know it's a sensitive issue, but some don't have much choice as the baby will have complications as well in an unhealthy person.

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